View Full Version : Update on purchase and use of AP products in Missouri
KDirk
05-14-2024, 07:09 PM
I recently received an email from Spirit of 76 regarding the requirements for purchasing or using (legally, anyway) AP products in the state of Missouri. I'll attach the pertinent portion below:
> begin quoted email:
We would like to thank you for being a loyal Spirit of ‘76 customer and we wish to inform you of some updates to fireworks enforcement in the State of MO.
The Office of the State Fire Marshal is currently in a re-writing period for the statutes and regulations pertaining to fireworks. As part of this process, they have verbally declared that “Professional Use Only” fireworks fall under the scope of fireworks which require a license or permit to purchase or display.
This new enforcement pertains to 1.4G UN0431 Articles Pyrotechnic, 1.4G UN0432 Articles Pyrotechnic, and 1.4G UN0336 Fireworks For Professional Use Only. Products that fall into those three categories will require a Pyrotechnic Operator License or Proximate Operator from the State of MO or a display permit in order to purchase. This does NOT APPLY to 1.4G UN0336 Consumer Fireworks.
Spirit of ‘76 will require all residents in the state of MO to possess a MO Pyrotechnic Operator License or a Proximate Operator License in order to buy “Pro Use Only” products from the ‘76 Pro Line. Please note, this ONLY APPLIES TO PEOPLE WITHIN THE STATE OF MISSOURI. Shipments to out of state customers and entities are still valid with proof of training, another state license, or an ATF license.
Spirit of ‘76 is working diligently on these updates with MO State Representatives as well as the State Fire Marshal. Our mission, as always, is to provide fair and equitable access to these products for as many customers as possible.
> end quoted email
So it looks as if AP class products will be pushed back up into a category requiring professional licensure and permitting (by the state, not the ATF) to purchase and use. I imagine out of state distributors will get wise to this and require the same for any product ordered by and delivered to a Missouri resident in order to remain in compliance with state law. I've not looked at the state licensing requirements yet, so don't know how involved and onerous they may be. Will have to read up on that when I get some free time.
Curious know if this is a developing trend being similarly legislated in other states, any comments?
displayfireworks1
05-14-2024, 08:42 PM
Who do you suspect in Missouri push for this? Spirit was looking for some sort of legislation criteria to be able to sell AP products. Now when they sell to out of state customers , they can use this criteria that will be similar to their own state. If this type of regulation does occur in other states , look for it to come from other APA member companies behind it.
KDirk
05-14-2024, 10:04 PM
I've no idea where the push came from, nor was I aware until I read this email that any such changes were on tap. As the email stated, the state assembly and the state fire marshall are in the midst of a rewrite on fireworks enforcement regulations, so maybe there was already a general legislative redo in progress, or maybe there was a specific push from certain parties to adopt this legislation. If the latter, then I'd have to assume it came from fireworks distributors, and/or commercial display companies seeking to reduce competition from better grade "prosumer" friendly product.
In either case, barrring a change in this legislation to be less onerous, I suspect the future of AP is going to be of very limited access, since I can't imagine but a few individuals taking on the burden and cost of getting these licenses and permits. This is a hobby for me, I do one shoot a year (July 4) and already have tied up an awful lot of money in Cobra hardware and racks with poly DR11's, plus slats, cabling, tools and safety equipment like commercial fire extinguishers. I'm not sitting on limitless funds to indulge this just for fun, and at some point the ancillary costs will get so great it will chew into the budget for actual product, which the defeats the whole purpose.
I'll have to review the costs and requirements for the state licenses, but already suspect those will be a non-starter for me. Since there will be costs involved, and likely some sort of insurance and inspection requirements as well, that places way too much burden on a mere hobbyist. Figures right when the product starts to live up to expectations, we get a wrinkle that puts it back out of reasonable reach. At least that's how I see it at present.
BMoore
05-15-2024, 12:11 AM
So they are enforcing something that is not even law yet? They are in a re-writing phase but have verbally declared what the final statute will be and will enforce it now? If I were a Missouri resident I would take serious issue with the precedent that sets and not just related to fireworks.
KDirk
05-15-2024, 08:49 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with that assertion, but would guess that SO76 will be following this policy based upon what they assume to be the final, approved legislation. If it gets amended (or killed off), then they would probably have to change company policy, as the legal justification they cite for the current policy wouldn't then exist. I see nothing to indicate that the state would be enforcing this before it becomes law, unless it has already passed sometime after the email was sent.
Irrespective of all that, my overall impression is that this is not going to be good for the further development and growth of AP classified product. Rather, it will stunt sales of it due to it once again being limited only to those who jump through the necessary hoops to be able to purchase and use it legally. I'm sure some will get through the cracks created by distributors who play fast and loose with the rules, but that will not be a regular enough occurrence (especially if enforcement is at all effective) to account for much expansion in sales.
In other words, it looks like access to AP will be regulated enough to make it practically as much work to have legal access to as 1.3 product, thereby putting AP back mostly in the purview of pro display companies (which defeats the whole point of the AP category IMHO). This will be even moreso the case if similar legislation is passed in other states that have generally been more "pyro friendly" up to this point.
I would characterize this as a significant blow to the future market growth of AP products for the advanced hobbyist, since I doubt many like myself will go to the effort of meeting these new requirements for one or two shoots a year based mostly (or now entirely ) on consumer product, unless the cost and effort involved is minimal. And if that ends up being the case, what would be the point of requiring state level licensure, as I doubt this is being done as a mere formality.
Here is a link to the Sate of Missouri website for licensure of display operator. This link was taken from the same email SO76 sent out, but was beyond the portion I quoted in the first post. I just had time to look it over this morning:
https://dfs.dps.mo.gov/programs/fireworks/fireworks-licensed-operator.php
If you read through the requirements, it appears one of the prerequisites for obtaining the state license is an ATF license (and thereby all the costs and requirements of that have to be met first). That's some impressive circular logic here to impose this on the purchase of AP product, since once one has the ATF license, they'd be qualified to purchase, store, and use any fireworks - including 1.3 - to begin with. Obviously to legally run a commercial display in Missouri, one would need the state license also, but any legit commercial operator would already have this. To place these requirements on anyone wanting to buy AP products has essentially put it right back into being professional use only, as I'm reading to this. Curious to hear the thoughts of others once they read through this.
tonyr
05-15-2024, 01:29 PM
Just buy elsewhere. They tend to make their own shit up and their prices and product are not all that good anyway.
displayfireworks1
05-15-2024, 05:12 PM
Someone opened up a can or worms with these new AP products. The display companies wanted the benefit of having these products so they don't have the regulatory burden of 1.3 products, they now also want to find a way the average person can't buy them . China apparently didn't recognize that category for shipping Articles of Pyrotechnics so they chose to ship as Consumer Fireworks rather than ship as 1.3 and reclassify back to AP once in US. In my opinion its the best thing to happen to fireworks without having an ATF license. The industry didn't recognize the advanced fireworks enthusiast with their computer software and firing systems , now the availability of these AP products are coming in heavy to feed that need. They want to reverse it and have you get state certificate and get signed off by who ??? A display company. The same group trying to stop all this in the first place. How anxious are they going to be to train you only find out your not working for them and only want to buy AP products. Remember there is no pyro school in the entire United States. Should these display companies be in charge of your competency for a not for profit fireworks display or to buy AP products? What is in it for them except to refuse or deter you.
KDirk
05-15-2024, 08:00 PM
That's pretty well how I look at it. As to buying elsewhere, I wasn't going to buy AP from SO76, but from one of Dave's sponsors who recognize his training certificate. I still plan to do so, but now wonder how long that option will remain available to me. If out of state wholesalers comply with Missouri law regarding AP (and I expect they will, once they are aware of it, as they already have restrictions in place for nanny states like California) then I'll be back to buying consumer only. Which may just be what I have to settle for going forward.
What I expect is that if only a few states remain in which hobbyists who can demonstrate a proficiency to qualify to purchase AP, but most states (eventually) close off that option via more onerous licensing requirements, the AP market will wither and die, putting us back to just straight 1.4 consumer and 1.3 display/commercial categories. If that's how it has to be, I guess I can live with that, but was looking forward to stepping things up a bit with AP product in the coming years.
BMoore
05-16-2024, 09:39 AM
I was discussing this topic with a friend yesterday, and it seems this issue with MO isn't quite as it seems. In most states the statutes simply differentiate between 1.4G and 1.3G or professional vs. display fireworks. The current MO is a little unusual in that it specifically calls out UNO336 1.4G as being legal fireworks and anything not meeting that classification as being restricted. So, even under the current law which goes back to 2012 I believe, UNO431, UNO432 and UNO336 Professional Use Only (Which is a separate classification from UNO336) could be interpreted as being prohibited without a license. That is apparently the stance the state is taking and plans to clarify the distinction in the next re-write. Now, whether this interpretation is right, wrong or should be changed one way or the other is debatable, but perhaps this really is more about enforcement of the current law as it is written as opposed to a plot against 1.4 Pro. On the flip side, I have no doubt that someone within the fireworks industry has been fanning the flames with the state fire marshal to weigh in on this now.
KDirk
05-16-2024, 01:56 PM
I've noted the different subclassifications of 1.4 listed in the email, but am unsure how that relates specifically to AP product at this point. Is any/most/all AP categorized as UN0336? Or does some/all of it get categorized under one of the other types listed in the email that are professional use only? This confusion and complexity in creating the AP category of product (and the US distributors need to relabel this product on arrival from China) strikes me as a problem waiting to happen, thereby leading us into confusing situations like the one under discussion here. Perhaps I've misread the intent of the email, but have no information presently that indicates otherwise to me. As one fairly new to the more advanced consumer pyro scene, I'm not yet fully up to speed on the different classifications within 1.4, and it would be nice to have clarification on each of these besides UN0336 (which is obviously consumer product for purposes of definition by the law). Any experts here have insight to add on this? It would be a relief to learn that I'm overreacting to that email, and that it won't jeopardize my ability to purchase AP product going forward.
BMoore
05-16-2024, 03:07 PM
I've noted the different subclassifications of 1.4 listed in the email, but am unsure how that relates specifically to AP product at this point. Is any/most/all AP categorized as UN0336? Or does some/all of it get categorized under one of the other types listed in the email that are professional use only? This confusion and complexity in creating the AP category of product (and the US distributors need to relabel this product on arrival from China) strikes me as a problem waiting to happen, thereby leading us into confusing situations like the one under discussion here. Perhaps I've misread the intent of the email, but have no information presently that indicates otherwise to me. As one fairly new to the more advanced consumer pyro scene, I'm not yet fully up to speed on the different classifications within 1.4, and it would be nice to have clarification on each of these besides UN0336 (which is obviously consumer product for purposes of definition by the law). Any experts here have insight to add on this? It would be a relief to learn that I'm overreacting to that email, and that it won't jeopardize my ability to purchase AP product going forward.
UN0336 is Consumer
UN0336 Fireworks for Professional Use Only is 1.4Pro
UN0431 and UNO432 Articles Pyrotechnic is also 1.4Pro
For the back story, most 1.4Pro was initially coming in as UNO431. China stopped recognizing that classification and instead imported them as 1.3 Display Fireworks. Once in the U.S. they could be re-packaged and re-labeled for sale under UNO431 which added expense to the product. To get around this a new catagory was created UN0336 Fireworks for Professional Use Only. It's was/is it's own category in the U.S. but China recognizes it no differently than consumer product making it easier to import. Supposedly the UN0336 For Professional Use category is being eliminated under the premise that it is creating too much confusion and causing product to end up in the hands of non-qualified consumers.
As far as your concerns with Missouri, I'd say your concerns are justified. MO law specifically states that legal fireworks fall under the UN0336 category. From a strict reading of the law that could be interpreted as UN0336 Fireworks for Professional Use Only, UN0431 and UN0432 as being non-legal classifications requiring a state license to possess. That seems to be the stance the state is taking and looking to clarify. In other words 1.4pro may have always been illegal in MO because of the language of the law, just not enforced.
KDirk
05-16-2024, 03:48 PM
@BMoore, thanks for that clarification on the various subclassifications of 1.4. I'd not looked at those closely before now, and the "need to know" didn't present itself until I received this email. I guess it'll be a wait and see proposition as to how this shakes out, but it certainly appears that AP products under the so called 1.4pro category will now be indistinguishable from 1.3 for purposes of buying and using legally. I've no doubt there will continue to be those who skirt the law, and I have to wonder how committed the state wil be to enforcement. My guess is most enforcement action will occur in nailing retailers who are caught improperly selling the product to those without the needed licenses, and against end users who have a documented accident that is found to have involved the use of 1.4pro when they weren't legally permitted to do so. Anyone using this product outside the law without incident will be difficult to catch, since the evidence is mostly burned up in the course if its use. Just some observations on my part, anyway.
I'm a bit surprised by this coming from Missouri, as we don't typically see such busy-body restrictive legislation here. Which is all the more reason I heavily suspect this is due to lobbying by the professional pyro trade, rather than "Karens" out to spoil the ability to have a little fun. There hasn't been any serious effort I've seen here to further restrict consumer fireworks (outside of long existing prohibitions against firing them in certain counties with blanket bans). In any case, it is a disappointing development.
displayfireworks1
05-20-2024, 02:16 PM
I'm a bit surprised by this coming from Missouri, as we don't typically see such busy-body restrictive legislation here. Which is all the more reason I heavily suspect this is due to lobbying by the professional pyro trade, rather than "Karens" out to spoil the ability to have a little fun. There hasn't been any serious effort I've seen here to further restrict consumer fireworks (outside of long existing prohibitions against firing them in certain counties with blanket bans). In any case, it is a disappointing development.
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The enemy in the fireworks industry comes from within , there is no "Anti-Fireworks" group as professed by some old fireworks groups. Its was a smoke screen. Just before Pennsylvania went legal the state had a public meeting , guess who showed up to oppose it ?? Multiple people already in the Pennsylvania fireworks business voicing opposition. Pahrump Nevada had a public meeting when someone wanted to open another fireworks store in their town. Guess who showed up to oppose the new store. People that already had fireworks stores established in that town. This sort of political influence or attempt at political influence does not surprise me.
KDirk
05-20-2024, 10:41 PM
I can see that. Obviously, in many places existing blanket bans on consumer fireworks (both sales and use) came a long time back, and more from authoritarian stick-in-the-mud types who always presume to know what's best for everyone else in terms of safety, and for disallowing the creation of a "disturbance". Where I live, consumer fireworks are illegal to sell or use. In multiple adjoining counties to the west, north and south of me, they aren't, and most incorporated municipalities within those counties have ordinances specifically allowing for the use of consumer fireworks during the week of the 4th of July, with the only caveat being acceptable hours of use. So basically, no fireworks between 11pm and 8am local time. Even then, enforcement in those locales is pretty well nonexistent during the week of the 4th, as long as one isn't being extremely stupid.
Sales are usually permitted June 15 to July 10, for temporary stand/tent locations. Permanent store structures (as with many Phantom locations, for example) are permitted to operate year round if they so chose, and some do. These rules have been in place pretty well my entire life (since the mid 1970's) and since I've done larger shows the last several years, I always go out to a location where it is legal, to avoid hassles with police showing up. Prior to that, yes, I did small scale stuff on the sneak, like so many others around me. Yeah, I'm such a dangerous rebel.
The present issue regarding AP products here seems to me clearly driven by industry recalcitrance in not wanting to dilute or imperil existing profit streams. And I can sort of understand that, but it's still a load of dogsqueeze to disadvantage an "advanced hobbyist" who can meet the generally accepted standards to qualify for the use of these products.
I would guess that much of the resistance comes from distributors who also handle 1.3 product, and who don't want "amateurs" encroaching on the scope and quality of commercial shows, though I personally don't see where AP poses much risk to that end of the business. AP at it's best still can't touch giant 6, 8, 10"+ commercial shells and the like, and at the consumer level I very much doubt we will ever have even scaled down versions of advanced effects like unusual shapes and letters (we did finally get "ring" shells in the last couple of years admittedly) and well executed commercial shows will always be several cuts above anything but perhaps the most ambitious hobbyist show where strictly 1.4 is being shot.
It's doubtful to me the hobbyist end of the business here can band together and get this changed over the wishes of the commercial interests lobbying efforts, so I guess we'll just have to see how it shakes out.
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