display insurance

[pyrobrothers]

Has any one had trouble with local townships wanting you to have a million dollar insurance policy to shoot on your own property if so were did you get the policy

[indianahx]

I've seen that its quite common.....for instance Indiana (and maybe other areas as well) require $10k minimum insurance. However, its always up to the AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION to say wether that's enough. Some won't sign off on a permit unless you meet their specs. Btw, I did not pit that in caps bc I wanted to be a sarcastic dick. The AHJ is ultimately the person you are trying to please in terms of your competency/ability to use 1.3 fireworks.

Your use of the wording "to shoot on your own property" is also a gray area. Again, here in Indiana you are required to do the whole process even if you only fire 1 salute/1.3 shell or 1.3 cake. It considers ANY display involving 1.3 to be considered "public" so in that sense they don't care if your shooting on your property or in the middle of downtown.

I can't say that PA is the same way but I'm sure someone will chime in. Also, personal liability policies can be $$$$$$$ especially if you're just doing one or two shoots a year. Look for a distributor to do a "ship show" policy or something similar with an umbrella policy. Technically speaking that states you will buy their specific product and a certain volume and then pay a certain dollar amount on top of that to be included on that distributors policy for that specific shoot date. Ultimately it is ul to the company though as it is THEIR ass on the line if something happens at your show.

Good luck in your search.

[oldfart]

The State of New Hampsha requires a permit to shoot display fireworks, even on your own land. When you file for the permit you need a certificate from an insurance company showing you have insurance on those dates. Two of the clubs I belong to purchase an insurance package that covers 13 shoots. Both through a different agent but both backed by Loyds of London.

Dick

[jknepp1954]

Hey PyroBro - first of all welcome to pyrotalk from a pyro gal from Central Pa.
I own Kneppy's Firework over near State College area and yes - alot of twps are now wanting to have you come up with a mill $ insurance - impossible for the normal person.
It is kinda complicated how this came about - and i am not sure if i can put this into writing correctly or not - so if you wish to call me or pm me - i will go over it with you.
This had evolved from the Pa Law changes of Nov, 2004. It did not do anything to make fireworks legal in pa as it is still the same that way since 1939. All it did was bring the language up to 21st century terminology and make the state charge $5000 per lic and clarify some of the gray areas of the old law, but only to create NEW GRAY AREAS in the new law. our gov - go figure!
Anyway - one of the gray areas has been in the law it talks about the sec of permits about a lic - and then you hear of "well you got to have a blasters licence to do fireworks"! no you don't! anyway = then goes on to say about having a $500 conditional bond -
Remember though - this bond was set way back just after the depression and $500 was a heck of alot of money. So in todays standards - that don't really take care of anything. SO a state assoc called PSAT (Pa State Associations of Townships) - or something like that - set out a "model statute" of them asking for a $1 mill bond or insurance now - that is where that came from. Remember it is just a model - but hundreds of twps has adopted it...now that totally sucks!

[jknepp1954]

Try to maybe do your show in a more pyro friendly neighborhood. perhaps the nieghboring twp? Or see if your homeowners policy would work?
I think what they are trying to do is say basically - hey we don't want you to do this - hire a pro company to shoot your show instead...
I have heard so many times - "we have gotten legal permits for 20 years - no ones got hurt - no fires started - we are very responsible - the supervisors knows us - but now they want this $1mil thing and we can no longer get a permit"!

[coachtimmyj]

This is becoming more and more common all across the U.S. especially in areas where fireworks are not legal for discharge. Since you are partaking in an activity in which you need to secure a permit, the state/city/township is actually opening itself up to law suit by issuing a permit to you to do something which is otherwise illegal to do. This is why most states/city/townships are now requiring the minimum coverage they would require for a public display. Let's say you set up something incorrectly and injure your neighbor, said neighbor could technically sue the township for granting you the permit. This is why they are requiring it, so that you can put them on as additional insured to cover their a$$ if you were to injure/damage something.

As for where to get this insurance, unless you're willing to pay $4000 forget about it, and even if you are, good luck securing it unless you are properly licensed to operate in your state (should the state require it) and/or can show proof of competency. If you are licensed for 1.3, you may be able to get your vendor to provide the insurance for you (again, providing you can prove you're competent) for additional cost (typically anywhere from 10%-30% of the product cost, but they will most likely require you only use their product in your display and you'll have to purchase a decent amount of product as well.

Best advice I can offer is to find a company to shoot with/for, give up your 4th of July week busting ass for them, and ask them to cover your show for you as a "display". Many companies will do this for their employees, but don't expect to be able to shoot your show on the 4th because that's when they will need you the most.

Another option would be possibly club insurance. Let me ask you this, how much room do you have? And would you be interested in having about 40 pyro brothers dropping by to put some works up in the air? If the answers are "plenty of room" and "hell yeah", shoot me a pm and I may be able to help you out.

[pyrobrothers]

Thanks for all the comments on my insurance problem what it all comes down to is that i was able to get permits for all the past years untill last year i have a township supervisor that has a firework store and i didnt buy product from him last year so i contacted another supervisor and he had the township attorny contact me and that were the insurance problem came in AND I HAVE A FARE AMOUNT OF ROOM

[burgerfiredept]

Ok, I started reading this and thought I would consult my current Insurance company to see about adding some liability insurance for this. Well, State Farm said that they can't write a commercial policy for me for liability, so I am wondering who goes through who? Just need some guidance as to companies that offer this kind of coverage. I looked it up and Indiana luckily only requires $10,000 by state law but other organizations may require more.

[indianahx]

Ok, I started reading this and thought I would consult my current Insurance company to see about adding some liability insurance for this. Well, State Farm said that they can't write a commercial policy for me for liability, so I am wondering who goes through who? Just need some guidance as to companies that offer this kind of coverage. I looked it up and Indiana luckily only requires $10,000 by state law but other organizations may require more.


I would suggest asking your AHJ. whoever it is that signs off on your permit has the final say about your insurance. Indiana requires a minimum of $10k but ultimately your AHJ may require more.

[coachtimmyj]

Ryder Insurance is who our club deals with. There is a minimum policy and it runs about $4000/yr. There are only a small amount (three which I know of) that even offer commercial insurance for display fireworks.

[indianahx]

Check the sponsor page....there is a company there.

[burgerfiredept]

Too bad there aren't as many companies competing for this kind of insurance rates. I should call Progressive and see if they can compare their competitors. Lol

[displayfireworks1]

There may be five insurance companies in United States that specialize in this type of insurance. Do not even bother calling your local insurance agent. I believe one of my insurance sponsors may be commenting soon to educate us on this subject. The last time I looked into this no one is selling a single day policy without it being attached to an established policy holder usually a fireworks distributor or an organization. You may also need a proven history of experience. It will also cost hundreds of dollars for a single event.
Here is my insurance sponsors website
http://www.combinedspecialties.com/

[pyro1361]

I use Combined Specialties they are very good, Call them and talk to Debbie she will be able to answer all your questions.

[oldfart]

One of the clubs I belong to uses CSI. Underwritten by Loyd's of London.

Dick

[dmerlino]

Hello, I am Debbie Merlino, owner of Combined Specialties International www.combinedspecialties.com We are insurance brokers to the pyro industry. Would be happy to assist with your insurance needs. There are only a few companies that can write this type of insurance. Phone: 866-893-9510

[dmerlino]

Hello, I am Debbie Merlino, Combined Specialties International, and would be glad to assist with display insurance.
866-893-9513

[indianahx]

Debbie, ill go ahead and throw out the question so you hopefully won't get asked a million different times.....

For the "backyard hobbyists" who only may do one show a year, is it completely out of the question to have a personal policy. Keeping in mind most are on a budget of sometimes less than $1000 for pyro.

I understand that individual policies will differ, but for instance, I would like to just supplement my 1.4 show with one or two 1.3 items. In Indiana its a $10k minimum insurance policy. But spending $4000 for 1 cake in 1 show just doesn't sound feasible.......if that makes sense.

[dmerlino]

Yes, for one show a year it is not feasible to pay for an annual policy. I do have an idea for "backyard hobbyists" who do one show a year. My idea would be to write a master policy for the "hobbyists" and issue certificates to individuals under the master policy. Someone would have to be the "point" person and handle all the insurance paperwork. If anyone is interested in discussing this with me, please call me at 866-893-9510.

[Sig40cal]

OK, so I bit and called Debbie. I am a hobbiest and not really someone that wants to make this my career, but I love being able to do my own shows. If you are truely interested in the insurance piece at a reasonable rate then there is some options for us, other than purchasing a ship show from our vendors. If you are interested then please PM me. It is going to take about 50 of us and I will have more info in the near future on how we can do this. I will put together a list of requirements for us in the near future if you are interested, but I really need to know how many would be willing to do this.

[georgiapyro]

PM Sent...

[Pyro Nation]

pm sent yesterday..lol

[UniversalPyro]

PM Sent yesterday also, lets get some insurance!!!

[J's12talk]

PM sent, come on guys we will need more of you in on this.

[jknepp1954]

OK, so I bit and called Debbie. I am a hobbiest and not really someone that wants to make this my career, but I love being able to do my own shows. If you are truely interested in the insurance piece at a reasonable rate then there is some options for us, other than purchasing a ship show from our vendors. If you are interested then please PM me. It is going to take about 50 of us and I will have more info in the near future on how we can do this. I will put together a list of requirements for us in the near future if you are interested, but I really need to know how many would be willing to do this.
I am not sure where you are going with this, but when it comes to insurance and such - there is always more to it that what meets the eye.
Just my opinion...

[jknepp1954]

First of all I want to apologize to DMerlino on this and to you all. I talked to her today and she cleared up my comment above.
I guess I am just a skeptic on some things.
Combined Specialties is good people. I have dealt with her for over 10+ years.

[VFI_Fireworks]

Ok my issue with this is ," One bad apple and someone getting hurt so you can get cheaper insurance is not worth it." Writing a policy and handing out riders for all who want one for $100.00 is just unsafe. You dont know who or what this person knows. So my advice stay away, joining a club dosen't even get you insurance without showing up and shooting so they know your not a joke... What I dont understand is why the insurance companies writing these policies so costly when a garage or store insurance open 24-7-365 is not a fireworks company 20-50 days. Like all insurance its a racket////

[dmerlino]

I would be happy to discuss your response off post. dmerlino@combinedspecialties.com or 415-209-0012 Debbie Merlino

[georgiapyro]

Any new information on the insurance front folks? Would love to do this!