Vintage Firecrackers ATF approved storage

[FinnAmerican]

Found this about vintage firecrackers in an old ATF Newsletter.
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[displayfireworks1]

What you are reading was the result of a section of the newsletter the Pyrotechnic Guild International use to have. They had a newsletter section called “Ask the ATF”. It should have been titled “Let me think of some dumb-ass question to ask the ATF”. This answer the PGI essentially ask for has prevented me from video interviewing some of the larger vintage firecracker collectors. If you go with this ATF response every pack of vintage firecrackers over 51 mg should be in an approved magazine. Thank goodness the ATF has more sense that the PGI did at the time when it comes to enforcement of this. I am no longer a PGI member (Conduit as the ATF called it) but I believe they eliminated that “Ask the ATF” section of the their newsletter.

[wingman]

What you are reading was the result of a section of the newsletter the Pyrotechnic Guild International use to have. They had a newsletter section called “Ask the ATF”. It should have been titled “Let me think of some dumb-ass question to ask the ATF”. This answer the PGI essentially ask for has prevented me from video interviewing some of the larger vintage firecracker collectors. If you go with this ATF response every pack of vintage firecrackers over 51 mg should be in an approved magazine. Thank goodness the ATF has more sense that the PGI did at the time when it comes to enforcement of this. I am no longer a PGI member (Conduit as the ATF called it) but I believe they eliminated that “Ask the ATF” section of the their newsletter.

Thank God! Can you imagine the logic behind all this? That would mean virtually unrolling each and every cracker in a brick to make sure they all contained less than 51mg. Good luck with that! Especially in the 80s and earlier, where just about every brand other than Black Cat had some form of inconsistency - heck, I even remember in the mid-80s a neighborhood friend lighting a single black cat cracker from a string and chucking it into a sidewalk drain pipe; it blew that plastic pipe into chunks! We'd never seen one do that before.

[halk]

This is a gray area for so many regulatory agencies. All sorts of products were made before they imposed tens of thousands of rules on transport, storage, and use of so many items formerly and still in common use by the public. As long as these items are 'not in commerce' they make no efforts at confiscation. Can you imagine trying to round up all the cans of paris green still out there or arresting a person that drives an old car without directional signals or a mom that uses an unsafe baby crib? We have had ATF agents go through Collector's Corner at PGI several times and they show no interest at all. One of them picked up a paper shooter gun and laughingly admitted he had never even heard of one before. So don't worry about that brick of firecrackers you bought before 1977 unless you sell them on your fireworks stand.

[displayfireworks1]

When I teach my ATF license class’s I tell people. The Feds have a high conviction rate, why? Because they don’t waste their time on bullshit. If they come after you for something they already watched what you were doing for 6 months or longer, and that guy you thought was your new best friend buying from you will already be sitting in the courtroom as you walk in ready to testify against you.
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As long as you are not doing mischievous, potentially destructive, criminal or jeopardizing homeland security, I doubt they will ever say a word about this. In addition you would not have anything else attached to it such as illegal storage of real 1.3 products, contraband etc. It would seriously be detrimental to the working relationship the ATF has with pyrotechnic industry, if they enforce old penny firecrackers. It would also be petty. But at the same time you don’t flaunt the collection hobby in defiance of the 51mg storage requirement. In my personal opinion the collection hobby seem to be cool at the level is operating now. I also suggest not to place these items in the US Postal System. They may unnecessarily trigger unwanted attention. Sell or trade them in person at events.
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The few fireworks enthusiast out there that enjoy this collecting old firecrackers I encourage you to post pictures etc. on Pyrotalk Firecracker Forums. Some education about the time frame of the items would also be great. I am not much on collecting but it great to hear the time frame of manufacturing and the geographic manufacturing movements because of trade regulations etc.
Back to that PGI newsletter question. What did the PGI think back then to expect the answer to be? Personally I don’t ask questions I suspect I don’t want to hear the answer to.

[halk]

Thanks. You explained the 'gray area' perfectly. They are concerned about use and transfer (as is DOT), and possession of explosives or related materials and devices in or potentially in illegal commerce. So it goes at PGI conventions. Licensed chemical dealers can no longer sell large amounts to general members; trucks are inspected upon entering the site. Have also had to crack down on the 1.4 shooting area, as obvious overloads were becoming all too common, also posing dangers to the folks using the area. Collectibles (pyrobila) have been displayed as collections, for trade, and for sale at PGI since it began, as it was started mostly by collectors and pore-1nostalgia buffs. Prior to 1997, we dealt in parking lots, in motel rooms, and next to the T-shirt sellers. And yes the displayers and competitors quickly began exchanging components and chemicals. So there was 30+ years with no problems whatsoever with any agencies. We had agents invited to explain current regulations. Now we have gone another 26 years at the Collector's Corner without incident. But the Chairman did have to tighten up also, as members were bringing in lots of UNO material from the 1.4 Sales area. As on old ATF permit holder told me "when they look at your old stuff, they raise their eyes a bit on large amounts of empty paper tubes." That sort of says it all.

[dchambers490]

The problem these days is if you come to the attention of the authorities for whatever they deem unlawful the City, the county, the State, and the Feds have hoards of lawyers and unlimited resources to prosecute you in any way they see fit. Unless you are wealthy enough to hire a team of lawyers your chances of getting off the hook are low.

[Arclight]

Another theme I have seen multiple times from ATF and local bomb squads: They just want to get rid of the explosives and rarely seem to be interested in prosecuting anyone, absent some other type of criminal activity. I think the feeling is that they want the public to call them to get rid of the dynamite in the barn, grenade your dad brought back from Vietnam or whatever without worrying about going to prison.