Transfer of 1.3 between hobbyist

[Salutecake]

So, let's say I was at a club shoot and the person next to me was shooting off some 4 inch shells. I told him I liked those - and he gave me one to take home to try. So I take it home and put it into my mag.

I'm only guessing that this can be done, and I would have to fill out the standard acquisition form and the other form to log it into my mag. Another example might be swapping stuff at a club meeting. What would or should a paperwork trail look like.

Any thoughts, it seems to me, no different than buying and picking up at a 1.3 dealer, with the appropriate papperwork being flled out.

[displayfireworks1]

Yes you can between license holders. The ATF Inspectors sometimes cover this during your initial license interview. For example say you buy 2k worth of product and then realize you only need 1k of it. You can sell or give it to another license holder. I'm sure there a is form out there somewhere for this type of transfer. However, I suspect if you do this multiple times and under certain circumstances the ATF will start to look at this as you are more of a distributor selling fireworks

[BMoore]

They've always mailed me a stack of transfer forms with my new license. I've never needed to transfer product so I'm fuzzy on the details but if you check the paperwork the ATF sent you, you might have the form and instructions.

[Arclight]

1. Make sure you get a copy of their license. You can just take a picture with your phone.
2. Fill out a receipt with both party's names and license numbers. Get the buyer to sign it. The one I use is attached.6653

The only issue I've had with ATF audit was when I transferred some product to the county bomb squad. Since they are not a licensee, the ATF wanted to see a receipt or letter on their letterhead acknowledging they received it. When I transferred stuff to other licensees, they just wanted a receipt with name, license number of receiver and a signature. They told me it's harder for them to track product once it goes to a government agency vs. a licensee, so they want better documentation.

[jknepp1954]

they must have changed the ruling on that cause back in 2006 i got wrote up for doing that.....

[Arclight]

they must have changed the ruling on that cause back in 2006 i got wrote up for doing that.....

Interesting. Were they saying that you acted as a dealer when they gave you that warning? Or did you have a limited permit or something?

[Arclight]

Regarding ATF form 5400.8, I believe it is no longer required:
(3) Upon the publication date of this
rule, the form is not required in any
transaction whatsoever.
Licensees and permittees who have
completed ATF Forms 5400.8 prior to
the effective date of this interim final
rule should continue to maintain them
as part of their permanent records in
accordance with section 555.121.

See:
https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs/atf-2/download

For rules on transfers between licensees, see page 32-37 of the ATF Orange Book. From my reading, there isn't anything prohibiting transfer between licensees. They mention "disposing of surplus stock" several times, so it would probably be best to call your hobby transactions something like that.

[Engineer Cat]

Yes you can between license holders. The ATF Inspectors sometimes cover this during your initial license interview. For example say you buy 2k worth of product and then realize you only need 1k of it. You can sell or give it to another license holder. I'm sure there a is form out there somewhere for this type of transfer. However, I suspect if you do this multiple times and under certain circumstances the ATF will start to look at this as you are more of a distributor selling fireworks

The ATF agent that came for my interview said I absolutely could not sell any of the items I purchase. He didn't say "unless they are also licensed".

[Salutecake]

So I found this: attached it looks like something I found it on one of your sponsers pages. 6654

[Salutecake]

So for the above I don't know if it's a made up form or an official type of form - I didn't get that far yet.

[BMoore]

The forms that I was thinking of are the Limited Permittee Transaction Report but it seems that is more for Permittee/Distributor transactions. I'm interpreting the Orange Book the same as Arclight but they are clearly trying to make a distinction between disposal of surplus stock vs. a sale or distribution. Seems like that would be pretty subjective interpretation. If you are giving it to someone else it must be surplus right? Unless you buy with intent to sell which is a totally different issue. Interesting discussion.

[Arclight]

I made this form form based on a sample in a book and receipts I've gotten from suppliers. And I also agree on "disposal of surplus sock." There is no requirement I can find in the regs that says you need to put a dollar amount on any records you make when product is transferred to another licensee.

[jr99svt]

A 54 is a User License, not a dealers or importers License.
Unless you have a dealers or importers license, you cannot *sell* to another 54 holder.
Giving surplus product away to a 54 holder? It is in the orange book.
Maybe if the appropriate aquistion and disposition forms were filled out, but I have never done it.

[jr99svt]

A 54 is a User License, not a dealers or importers License.
Unless you have a dealers or importers license, you cannot *sell* to another 54 holder.
Giving surplus product away to a 54 holder? It is in the orange book.
Maybe if the appropriate aquistion and disposition forms were filled out, but I have never done it.

555.103, also see 555.106, but it looks like these sections pertain to a business

[Salutecake]

Hey Archlight, sorry, I didn't see your post on the fel receipt before I posted my comment on it. I think I'm going with the fel receipt. It is more for a business, but everything in the orange book is basically written for a business, not a hobbyist. I was also wondering about a Responsible Person/Employee Possessor form but that's really for employer to employee, and this is not the case. So far the Fel Receipt form seems like a reasonable option. The form has names and license numbers and a list almost like a acquisition/dispsition form, the paper trail will show bought from a dealer, transfered to another 54 holder, stored in a mag, blown off on the 4th, along with all the other paperwork in and out of the mag, so?? I am not an importer or dealer, nor will there be any exchange of money, I am certainly not trying to hide anything because I would not be going through this paperwork nightmare.
I guess just another grey area for hobbyist??

Thanks for your thoughts and keep hem coming.

[Arclight]

[QUOTE=Salutecake;78755]Hey Archlight, sorry, I didn't see your post on the fel receipt before I posted my comment on it. I think I'm going with the fel receipt. It is more for a business, but everything in the orange book is basically written for a business, not a hobbyist. I was also wondering about a Responsible Person/Employee Possessor form but that's really for employer to employee, and this is not the case. So far the Fel Receipt form seems like a reasonable option. The form has names and license numbers and a list almost like a acquisition/dispsition form, the paper trail will show bought from a dealer, transfered to another 54 holder, stored in a mag, blown off on the 4th, along with all the other paperwork in and out of the mag, so?? I am not an importer or dealer, nor will there be any exchange of money, I am certainly not trying to hide anything because I would not be going through this paperwork nightmare.
I guess just another grey area for hobbyist??

Thanks for your thoughts and keep hem coming.[/QUOTE

Here is an editable version you can make more "hobby friendly."

6655

[Salutecake]

Thanks!! Unless something comes up, I will certainly be using that form.