ATF license feedback and the new Pro products

[displayfireworks1]

Hello Dave, I received my ATF license and will be making a purchase at kellners soon, thank you so much for helping me out with this. Quick question… is my ATF license ok to purchase 1.4 pro products or do I need another certification?
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XXX thanks for feedback . I;m glad you received your ATF license. You can make 1.4 pro product purchases with your ATF license . You will not have any problems I suggest to fax of email your license to everyone you plan on purchasing from so they have it on file. Also bring a hard copy with you they day you pick your purchase up. You received your ATF license well ahead of July 4th. Have fun and stay safe.
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In this feedback email we can see even when a fireworks enthusiast is ATF licensed they still desire to purchase the new 1.4 "Pro" products.

[Mattp]

The last time I got single shot devices from one of my suppliers … they were from ‘76 proline

[displayfireworks1]

Some of the distributors on my listing of those that accept the Articles of Pyrotechnic education program are selling multiple brands of AP products , Dominator , Spirit of 76 etc. You can see this in my recent visit to American Fireworks in Hudson Ohio. Looking at the difference between the ATF/DVD package and the Article of Pyrotechnic program, I can see the move is trending towards the Articles of Pyrotechnics . These are the products advanced users want without all the regulatory burdens of the ATF license. Reputable distributors want to sell these products to advanced users ( proper equipment and training) that are more than just an average walk in front door July 3rd customers. An insider told me the industry concern is a fireworks stand driven by greed will sell these products to just anyone who may not know anything about their properties.

[Salutecake]

I also see there are a lot of different companies getting into the the AP products. I'm hoping they hit as hard as their vids show. Oh, Dave whats the rule -- I would mention the product but they are not listed adveretizers, but some of the companies that advertize here, do sell other AP products so where do I draw the line.

[jamisonlm3]

Some of the distributors on my listing of those that accept the Articles of Pyrotechnic education program are selling multiple brands of AP products , Dominator , Spirit of 76 etc. You can see this in my recent visit to American Fireworks in Hudson Ohio. Looking at the difference between the ATF/DVD package and the Article of Pyrotechnic program, I can see the move is trending towards the Articles of Pyrotechnics . These are the products advanced users want without all the regulatory burdens of the ATF license. Reputable distributors want to sell these products to advanced users ( proper equipment and training) that are more than just an average walk in front door July 3rd customers. An insider told me the industry concern is a fireworks stand driven by greed will sell these products to just anyone who may not know anything about their properties. I think it's going that way too. Alot of people are probably looking at the 1.4 pro stuff and thinking it's really nice. It's better than the regular consumer stuff, but doesn't have all the requirements and restrictions that 1.3 has. A number of manufacturers are creating their own 1.4 pro lines as well. I don't think alot of companies importing and selling it realy care if you have a firing system though. Most just seem to want know if the buyer knows how to use it since these aren't usual consumer products. There's no standard so it seems it's going to vary wild from company to company. Some might not sell it to anyone unless they have their permit. Either way, I have no doubt they'll be found in the wrong hands, but that's the same with 1.3 too.

[Salutecake]

Hey Dave can you help to clear up what "Articles of Pyrotechnics" are? So by definition they are basically the same as consumer fireworks but labeled as Pro. The weight of the powder is suppose to be the same as consumer stuff, but I have to admit they do seem to hit a little harder. The biggest advantage i see and use them for is the plug and play into firing equipment.

Are they manufactured with more control and produce less debris and smoke, like stage and theactrical? Just wondering what some of the differences and or advantages are compared toregular consumer stuff.

[displayfireworks1]

I am no an expert on the technical aspect of these new Articles of Pyrotechnic. The build specs have been changed and updated. I am predicting the real demand will be for the cakes rather than the single shot items. In 2018 I predicted something like this was going to happen in that category. With my AP certification I am hoping to set a standard the industry will accept. Problem is and I talked to one of them. These mom and pop stores and/or fireworks stands are looking to ignore any standard that cost them money or limits sales to those with advanced firing system customers only. One I spoke with is trying to circumvent any standard based on the UN numbers and/or the wholesaler placing fake labels on these products to look like regular Consumer Fireworks. I am going to speculate most mom and pop stores do not have a large percentage of advanced firing system customers, but they still want to sell these products. The wholesalers are already pushing these new AP products on the mom and pop locations. "Hey I got some new fireworks products this year I think you will like".
I want to also add some fireworks enthusiast that apply for my AP Certificate are now buying one of the three advanced firing systems I have listed just to meet the requirements and obtain the certificate to purchase these products.

[Arclight]

I am no an expert on the technical aspect of these new Articles of Pyrotechnic. The build specs have been changed and updated. I am predicting the real demand will be for the cakes rather than the single shot items. In 2018 I predicted something like this was going to happen in that category. With my AP certification I am hoping to set a standard the industry will accept. Problem is and I talked to one of them. These mom and pop stores and/or fireworks stands are looking to ignore any standard that cost them money or limits sales to those with advanced firing system customers only. One I spoke with is trying to circumvent any standard based on the UN numbers and/or the wholesaler placing fake labels on these products to look like regular Consumer Fireworks. I am going to speculate most mom and pop stores do not have a large percentage of advanced firing system customers, but they still want to sell these products. The wholesalers are already pushing these new AP products on the mom and pop locations. "Hey I got some new fireworks products this year I think you will like".
I want to also add some fireworks enthusiast that apply for my AP Certificate are now buying one of the three advanced firing systems I have listed just to meet the requirements and obtain the certificate to purchase these products.


My understanding, the designation of UN0431 and UN0432 is sort of intended as a catch-all for non-consumer products used for various reasons. Here is one example from my industry - it's a 1.4 product designated as UN0432.
https://sierrablaster.com/

They also have a training requirement before they will sell you the cartridges and you are supposed to use with their system.

[Salutecake]

It's sad stuff like this happens, and it's not just the fireworks industry or mom and pop stores. Unfortunately someone gets hurt, that leads to big investigations, court casses and in the end the honest pay the price with new regulations, and higher prices.
It's great that people like you, not only have training classes, put somewhat insist on taking the training. In the end, the mom and pop stores have a legitimate market to sell to and also havethe opportunity to sell firing systems.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Try this page...

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/articles-pyrotechnic#:~:text=Articles%20pyrotechnic%20shall %20mean%20pyrotechnic,classified%20as%20UN0431%20o r%20UN0432

[Engineer Cat]

Cross referencing the thread where Joyce posted a pdf of recent clarifications of 1.4pro or 1.4s

https://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/showthread.php?9645-1-4G-Professional-Fireworks