Open Shoots?

[Blackdevil77]

Any open shoots planned for the East Coast? I want to put my newly acquired type 54 to use. An open shoot is the only way to really do that.

[displayfireworks1]

One of my advertisers Fire Art has something going on May 20. https://www.fireartcorp.com/
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Shooter course and all. https://www.fireartcorp.com/demo
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Contact them and email your ATF license so they get your information on file if you are making a purchase.

[Engineer Cat]

One of my advertisers Fire Art has something going on May 20. https://www.fireartcorp.com/
.
Shooter course and all. https://www.fireartcorp.com/demo
.
Contact them and email your ATF license so they get your information on file if you are making a purchase.

It's actually not an open shoot. I spoke to Al at Fireart last week about this because he's a member of our club. It's PGI and Demo class only.

Pretty much those outside of PA that have a 54 can only shoot 1.3 in PA since it's close and you don't need a permit or shooters license unlike NJ and NY. Really if you have a buddy with a bunch of property in PA you can shoot 1.3.

However memorial day weekend there is a club shoot for Pyrotechnic Artists out in PA. It's about a 5 hour ride for me so I'm still not sure if I'm going to make it out there. But you can join the club, or go as another club members guest. There's a few club members on this forum that might be there.

[jr99svt]

in PA since it's close and you don't need a permit.

yes, you do. PA law requires a permit for display fireworks.

https://www.psp.pa.gov/public-safety...ks-safety.aspx

“Display fireworks,” which are classified as including salutes that contain more than two grains or 130 milligrams of explosive materials, and professional-grade aerial shells containing more than 60 grams of pyrotechnic compositions, are still only to be used by professionals with a permit from the municipality where the display will take place.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...this%20section.

Section 2402. Permits.

(a) Permissible purposes.--Display fireworks may be possessed and used by a person holding a permit from a municipality at the display covered by the permit

[Engineer Cat]

yes, you do. PA law requires a permit for display fireworks.

https://www.psp.pa.gov/public-safety...ks-safety.aspx

“Display fireworks,” which are classified as including salutes that contain more than two grains or 130 milligrams of explosive materials, and professional-grade aerial shells containing more than 60 grams of pyrotechnic compositions, are still only to be used by professionals with a permit from the municipality where the display will take place.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...this%20section.

Section 2402. Permits.

(a) Permissible purposes.--Display fireworks may be possessed and used by a person holding a permit from a municipality at the display covered by the permit

Those links are broke, but you could be correct. I've been told if its on private land and not for profit you do not need one. I will retract my comment if it isn't true. There's a lot of misinformation out there and I don't want to be giving people wrong info.

[jr99svt]

Those links are broke, but you could be correct. I've been told if its on private land and not for profit you do not need one. I will retract my comment if it isn't true. There's a lot of misinformation out there and I don't want to be giving people wrong info.

My Bad, i copied from a previous post I had Made. Here is the entire Law

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm?yr=2022&sessInd=0&act=74

1102(b),(c) and (d)

1102. Use of display fireworks.

(b) Permit.--Permission shall be given by the governing body of a municipality under reasonable rules and regulations for displays of display fireworks to be held within the municipality. After permission is granted, purchase, possession and use of display fireworks shall be lawful for the use outlined in the permit only. Permits shall not be transferable.

(c) Limitations.--Each use of display fireworks shall be:

(1) handled by a competent operator at least 21 years of age who demonstrates evidence of fireworks handling and safety training; and

(2) of a character and so located, discharged or fired as, in the opinion of the chief of the fire department or other appropriate officer as may be designated by the governing body of the municipality, after proper inspection, to not be hazardous to property or endanger any person.

(d) Insurance.--The governing body of the municipality shall require a permittee to carry insurance in an amount not less than $1,000,000 conditioned for the payment of all damages which may be caused to a person or property by reason of the use of display fireworks and arising from an act of the permittee or an agent, an employee or a subcontractor of the permittee.

[displayfireworks1]

Be careful searching the internet for permits etc in Pennsylvania or any state . Some of these state laws are still on the books from prior to 2003 before the ATF took over explosives. Prior to 2003 I was buying 1.3 fireworks by having a letter from the State of Pa attorney general office that I registered as a fireworks user. No ATF license needed. I bet that regulation is still on the books because I heard some local municipal near me ask for it. Most of whatever you find usually applies to in commerce applications.
Over the years I have not one single report of an "Hobbyist" ATF license holder being cited for not having a permit and/or not having a state shooter certificate. People that work in this display business constantly profess these in commerce regulations in an effort to stop the Hobbyist ATF license holder. When they realized I didn't get you all killed by getting an ATF license , the new strategy is I am encouraging everyone to shoot fireworks illegally. The strategy is to stop you and make sure they are the only ones that can do this, not making sure you live up to some moral/legal standard. While many of these regulations don't specifically address the advanced hobbyist shooting 1.3 fireworks for fun and entertainment , with an ATF license you will always have protection as someone who is legally allowed to purchase , possess and transport 1.3 fireworks.

[jr99svt]

Be careful searching the internet for permits etc in Pennsylvania or any state . Some of these state laws are still on the books from prior to 2003 before the ATF took over explosives. Prior to 2003 I was buying 1.3 fireworks by having a letter from the State of Pa attorney general office that I registered as a fireworks user. No ATF license needed. I bet that regulation is still on the books because I heard some local municipal near me ask for it. Most of whatever you find usually applies to in commerce applications.
Over the years I have not one single report of an "Hobbyist" ATF license holder being cited for not having a permit and/or not having a state shooter certificate. People that work in this display business constantly profess these in commerce regulations in an effort to stop the Hobbyist ATF license holder. When they realized I didn't get you all killed by getting an ATF license , the new strategy is I am encouraging everyone to shoot fireworks illegally. The strategy is to stop you and make sure they are the only ones that can do this, not making sure you live up to some moral/legal standard. While many of these regulations don't specifically address the advanced hobbyist shooting 1.3 fireworks for fun and entertainment , with an ATF license you will always have protection as someone who is legally allowed to purchase , possess and transport 1.3 fireworks.

I get what you are saying, but the law i quoted is PA 2022. And its on the books, and does not differentiate a hobbiest. Maybe its not needed for a hobbiest, BUT if something goes wrong during a shoot, a lawyer will beat you over the head with it while the court proceeding is occurring. Its easy to get a permit. Better safe than sorry. ATF 54 does allow Purchase, Transportation and possession, but does not give the right to discharge when you desire. Section 13 of ATF 1140-0070(ATF Application for permit) covers this. Back in 2003 when i applied for a 54 I was told to put down "local permit as needed" in this section, from a long since retired IOI. Just CYA in case. Prior to May 24, 2003, I purchased 1.3 with a local permit, From 3 PA distributors. I didnt need a letter from the state.

[jknepp1954]

I get what you are saying, but the law i quoted is PA 2022. And its on the books, and does not differentiate a hobbiest. Maybe its not needed for a hobbiest, BUT if something goes wrong during a shoot, a lawyer will beat you over the head with it while the court proceeding is occurring. Its easy to get a permit. Better safe than sorry. ATF 54 does allow Purchase, Transportation and possession, but does not give the right to discharge when you desire. Section 13 of ATF 1140-0070(ATF Application for permit) covers this. Back in 2003 when i applied for a 54 I was told to put down "local permit as needed" in this section, from a long since retired IOI. Just CYA in case. Prior to May 24, 2003, I purchased 1.3 with a local permit, From 3 PA distributors. I didnt need a letter from the state.

Mike - you are correct in the first place - A PERMIT IS NEEDED FOR A 1.3 SHOW - HOBBYIST OR NOT!!!

[Engineer Cat]

Mike - you are correct in the first place - A PERMIT IS NEEDED FOR A 1.3 SHOW - HOBBYIST OR NOT!!!

Thank you for the clarification Joyce and Mike.

[Salutecake]

I think you better reread: A permit is require by the municipality -- doesn't say state -- my municipality does not require a permit for hobbyist.

[jr99svt]

(b) Permit.--Permission shall be given by the governing body of a municipality under reasonable rules and regulations for displays of display fireworks to be held within the municipality.

My reading comprehension is fine. The State law says the Municipality SHALL, Not can, not may, SHALL. in legalese, that means WILL. Small Municipalities(AHJs) most times do not want to get involed in something they dont know anything about. Most dont want to be responsible, just in case. The above quoted section of law says that the AHJ will give a permit, as long as the requestor meets the AHJs conditions. Again, if something happens, and it costs more than 1 mil insurance covers to fix(if the insurance co even covers it, as you are technically breaking the law, and insurance doesnt pay under that condition), they are coming after you, and they will win, as the State law is pretty clear. Do you think the AHJ will back you when there is a lawsuit? think any local official will get on the stand and say, yea, it was my bad? What the local AHJ lets you get away with has nothing to do with what is supposed to happen. Ignorance of the law (I didnt know....)is not a legal defense.

[jr99svt]

If you prefer not to listen to me, thats fine, it wont hurt me. Its probably best to contact a lawyer and see what they say. You can ask the AHJ to involve their attorney, as every Municipality has one.

[Salutecake]

Well son, I am a retired attorney and and have been shooting off fireworks in the days of total illegal and has a hobbyist, and I bet I was doing that when you were still pooping green.
Now your adding other jargon in there about insurance, if your a hobbyist or shall and will, if the AHJ will back you, some one is going to come after you.
So, let me give you a quick analogy - PA State Laws says that possession and smoking pot is illegal -- How is it then in places like Philly and Pittsburg, the local municipalities have decriminalized smoking and small possession??? According to your interpretation, how can that be?
Stop'

[displayfireworks1]

I made a video post because it would be too much to type.
.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi1omfuxYI

[jr99svt]

I made a video post because it would be too much to type.
.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi1omfuxYI

I am not nor have i ever been in the fireworks Industry in any capacity. Im not trying to scare anyone.

[jr99svt]

Well son, I am a retired attorney and and have been shooting off fireworks in the days of total illegal and has a hobbyist, and I bet I was doing that when you were still pooping green.
Now your adding other jargon in there about insurance, if your a hobbyist or shall and will, if the AHJ will back you, some one is going to come after you.
So, let me give you a quick analogy - PA State Laws says that possession and smoking pot is illegal -- How is it then in places like Philly and Pittsburg, the local municipalities have decriminalized smoking and small possession??? According to your interpretation, how can that be?
Stop'

Im not your son. Dont be condesending to try and make a point. So you are saying person A smokes pot in philly, and Kills someone as a result of them being High, its ok? no charges? is that your legal opinion? the state never gets involed in a high profile case? Ever have a judge rule against you on saomething you thought was clear cut? Or are you that great of an Attorney that you won every case and in every case a judge always ruled your way?

What other Rules / laws are not needed with no permit? can we shoot 8s 10' from the spectators? how about a fire chief inspection? no permit, no need, Right?

[jr99svt]

Heres a better analogy for fireworks, state and local govts.

In 2017 Pa passed a law legalizing 1.4 for consumer use. Without provisions for local governments to restrict usage. The State had to revise this law in 2022 to allow local municipal governments to be able to restrict usage on all days of the year except Six. if municipal Governments can do as they please, why did the state have to revise the law? Why cant local governments restrict all usage, including those six days?

[nayslayer]

Best way to find some open shoots is to join a club.NLPC and Crackerjacks are two in this area. NLPC just had open shoot in NY yesterday