indoor magazine question

[patsfan12]

I have been trying to find concrete info on requirements for a type 4 indoor magazine table of distances, but cannot find anything in the atf book having it in writing. I have a job box that I am confident will pass with the exception of the 75' I saw on the atf website. My magazine is in a shed about 60' from my house. I have heard there are no table of distances for an indoor magazine, but like I mentioned I have not read this anywhere. I have my interview with my atf agent in 2 days to hopefully get my type 54. Hoping someone can chime in on how I should handle this question if it is brought up. It is in Iowa if that matters.

[Arclight]

How far away is the shed from your nearest neighbor and/or a public road? That might be the one thing they will inquire about.

[patsfan12]

its a few hundred feet from any neighbor or road. probably 300' or more if I had to guess.

[Arclight]

its a few hundred feet from any neighbor or road. probably 300' or more if I had to guess.

You might want to make an aerial map with distance markers using Google Maps or Caltopo.com and have that printed out in case they start asking questions about that. As long as the shed isn't attached to the house, you're probably fine.

[displayfireworks1]

Not sure what if any say so the State of Iowa has on this storage. My guess is not too much if the ATF Inspector has scheduled a visit to your site. The Inspector visit is more of an educational event. Let him review what you already have in place and see what he/she tells you needs done.
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Here is one of my videos from 5 years ago with someone in Pennsylvania doing what you are trying to do. I am curious what your shed/building looks like? Is it a framed type shed or something else? Can you post a picture.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRgwcyF2dQ

[patsfan12]

Here is what it looks like. The shed is 12' x 10'. The locks are 6 pin with a 3/8 shackle. I did use lag bolts to secure it to the floor also.

[patsfan12]

Here is what it looks like. The shed is 12' x 10'. The locks are 6 pin with a 3/8 shackle. I did use lag bolts to secure it to the floor also.

My pictures didnt upload. sorry.

[displayfireworks1]

Reduce the size of the picture and try to upload again . Or email to me at pyrotalk@gmail.com and I will post them

[displayfireworks1]

Here are pictures of Patsfan12 magazine. I also adjusted the software to allow larger size (Bytes) pictures (.jpg) to upload onto the forums. It appears to be bolted to the floor. Not sure if that is necessary? I have heard it go both ways both needs bolted and also it does not need bolted.

6539
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6540
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[Arclight]

The only requirement I am aware of is for a type 2. There is no mention of this in the type 4 standards, probably because a lot of type 4 magazines are trailers and such.


§ 555.208 Construction of type 2 magazines.

A type 2 magazine is a box, trailer, semitrailer, or other mobile facility.

(a) Outdoor magazines -

(1) General. Outdoor magazines are to be bullet-resistant, fire-resistant, weather-resistant, theft-resistant, and ventilated. They are to be supported to prevent direct contact with the ground and, if less than one cubic yard in size, must be securely fastened to a fixed object.

[patsfan12]

Thanks for uploading the pictures Dave. The magazine was approved and the interview went well. I don't know if it needs to be bolted down or not, but I did it just so its 1 extra piece of security. My agent did take pictures of the lag bolts holding it in place, so I am thinking it was a good feature to have.

[displayfireworks1]

I see he has it bolted to the floor, It looks more than one cubic yard . If it is the same box I think it is here are the Dimensions: H 18.25 in, W 32 in, D 19 in Who is good at math to calculate the Cubic Yards? This type of box may not need secured to a "Fixed Object".
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Here it is here at Home Depot. Looks like the same model number visible in his picture

.https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-32-in-W-x-19-in-D-x-18-25-in-H-Portable-Storage-Chest-Jobsite-Box-32R-OS/300748555

[displayfireworks1]

Thanks for uploading the pictures Dave. The magazine was approved and the interview went well. I don't know if it needs to be bolted down or not, but I did it just so its 1 extra piece of security. My agent did take pictures of the lag bolts holding it in place, so I am thinking it was a good feature to have.

What did you use to paint the inside of the magazine? Did the ATF Inspector comment on the black finish? How did you get under the floor of that shed to attach a nut to that bolt?

[patsfan12]

34.25 cubic yards.

[patsfan12]

I used rubber undercoat in a spray can to coat the inside. I used 1/2" lag bolts that are screwed into the joists of this shed. The inspector was happy I had a non sparking material inside of it.

[Arclight]

A cubic yard is 36x36x36 inches (27 cubic feet or 46,656 cubic inches). This one comes out to 11,096 cubic inches or just under .25 cubic yards.

[patsfan12]

A cubic yard is 36x36x36 inches (27 cubic feet or 46,656 cubic inches). This one comes out to 11,096 cubic inches or just under .25 cubic yards.

I missed a few parameters, you are correct. 34 cubic yards would be massive!

[Salutecake]

At 300 feet from a neighbors, I might have been looking at a small shipping container I'm not sure but over 300 ft from a building rd, and so on you might be able to store up to 10000 pounds, even if they approved it for a 1000 pounds, in the long run you might be happier.

[PG2159]

where can I find a specific policy on type 4 magazines?

[Arclight]

where can I find a specific policy on type 4 magazines?

1. Table of distances:
https://www.atf.gov/explosives/table-distances#555-219
2. Rules:
https://regulations.atf.gov/555-210/2019-24570
3. Construction standards:
https://www.atf.gov/file/58711

[patsfan12]

For the sake of not starting a new thread, does anyone have any links to a record keeping sheet I can print off and use for transactions?

[Arclight]

For the sake of not starting a new thread, does anyone have any links to a record keeping sheet I can print off and use for transactions?

Here is the one I use for my blasting business. You should be able to modify it for your needs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KYXAH9HLWcZcj5nIkZHyLo-5bIXCkobL/view?usp=sharing

[Salutecake]

So ihavea pdf of what I use - so far seems to work -- 6623 From what I remember it should have The name of the owner and the mag number on it, I'm not certain if this is a requirement or just an inspector thing, (it's been a while) but I use a separate sheet for full cases and another for single items (not full cases). I probably would have your aquisitions sheets in order.

Not sure if the pic worked,lmk.

[displayfireworks1]

Remember if any forums members want to post a document so others may in turn download it you can. When posting click on "Go Advanced" and "Manage Attachments". You will see a listing of extensions that can be uploaded. I adjusted the software to allow most common document extensions.

[Salutecake]

That's right you recently did add extensions, sorry I forgot, so if anyone is interested I have the form above in a .pdf version. LMK and I will post that version.

[patsfan12]

What is the comp weight to gross weight the ATF uses? I have heard a shell that weighs 5lb is considered 2.5lbs and a cake is 1/3 the weight.

[Arclight]

What is the comp weight to gross weight the ATF uses? I have heard a shell that weighs 5lb is considered 2.5lbs and a cake is 1/3 the weight.

Look at the receipt or documents you get. They usually list "NEW" or "Net Explosives Weight" somewhere, as this is needed for shipping. The actual regulation says this:

The net weight of the explosive materials contained in the display fireworks may be used in determining compliance with table of distance requirements. To determine the actual weight of the materials, it may be necessary
to contact their manufacturers.

They do have some rulings that list weight estimates that can be used for blasting caps, safety fuse and a few other items if manufacturer data isn't available. I don't believe I've seen one for shells, but other people can chime in here.

[jr99svt]

What is the comp weight to gross weight the ATF uses? I have heard a shell that weighs 5lb is considered 2.5lbs and a cake is 1/3 the weight.

Here you go

[patsfan12]

Here you go

Thank you!

[shake the cove]

The only requirement I am aware of is for a type 2. There is no mention of this in the type 4 standards, probably because a lot of type 4 magazines are trailers and such.


§ 555.208 Construction of type 2 magazines.

A type 2 magazine is a box, trailer, semitrailer, or other mobile facility.

(a) Outdoor magazines -

(1) General. Outdoor magazines are to be bullet-resistant, fire-resistant, weather-resistant, theft-resistant, and ventilated. They are to be supported to prevent direct contact with the ground and, if less than one cubic yard in size, must be securely fastened to a fixed object.

You are looking for code 555.224 distance of storage for display fireworks. I believe IMHO that it pertains to all storage devices. minimum is 150ft from roads, buildings etc. you can also look up regs if you do not have the ATF orange book google...ecfr.gov
Hope this helps.