First ATF Magazine inspection request - Magazine already has 1.3 stored in it

[Troy]

Hello -
We took possession of 1.3 inventory and have it stored in a magazine prior to ATF inspection. We have repeatedly emailed and called prior to taking possession, but we have still not received our inspection. Are we in violation if we are following all of the storage requirements?

Certainly appreciate any professional dialog regarding this matter.

Sincerely,

Troy

[displayfireworks1]

You may need to clarify and/or add more details. You are already ATF licensed correct , notified the ATF you have a magazine and it is pending approval when they find time to inspect it, in the mean time you came across some 1.3 and decided to place it in the pending inspection magazine? More details would be helpful. Does the ATF at least have a request from the license holder to inspect the new magazine? More details and sequence of events would help others answer this question. When you took possession of the 1.3 where did it originate ? Did you buy it , given to you ?? The more details the better

[Troy]

Thank you for the quick response.
- The owner is licensed as a 54-User.
- The owner emailed ATF multiple times with no response - all prior to us placing the 1.3 in the magazine.
- To the best of our knowledge (from ATF website) we are complying with all of the storage requirements (locks, etc.)
- We purchased the 1.3 and placed in the magazine and continue to wait for the inspection. It has been over a year since we first emailed ATF and we were committed to shows, etc.
- The owners license expires this May, which we feel will precipitate the inspection.

With that said, we are trying to get an understanding of what we might expect when the inspection does take place.

Thanks again.

[BMoore]

If you drove a car for 6-months before getting a drivers license, would you be in violation even if you followed all traffic laws? Hopefully your specific details lead to a different conclusion but storage has to be in a BATFE approved magazine and until you've passed inspection and received your magazine number it is not approved. This seems like something you would have gotten clarification on before taking possession so I'm sure there is more to the story. If it was me, I'd probably be contacting the last ATF inspector that interviewed me to discuss the situation. In general the ATF seems willing to help responsible licensees stay in compliance so full disclosure may serve you better than having them discover this on their own.

[displayfireworks1]

Thank goodness someone at least has a form of an ATF license. I don't think sending emails is a formal request for a magazine inspection and when they don't answer the email it means "Hey we tried to tell you and you never answered" so we moved forward we got shows to do. What would a reasonable and prudent person do ? At least you have what may or may not be a magazine. If someone in an official capacity like an ATF Inspector does not answer your emails , I would call his boss , or call Martinsburg WV , send formal written documentation someone has to sign for etc You may in fact have a perfectly fine well built magazine. However, it is not a magazine until the ATF calls it a magazine and they register it and put that little sticker on it.
For now I would call the distributor ( hopefully the same as your regional contingency) and take the product back. If it is already paid for he will keep it for you. Then get that magazine inspected by the ATF. what worries me is if you happen to have obtained the product as a result of making a long trip to another state and can not easily make that trip back. Technically someone has to guard that product until it returns back to official storage or you call the ATF to explain things , explain the situation and ask for guidance or a variance using the current magazine (not official) you have. At least you are licensed but unfortunately placed yourself in a situation where you do not know what to do. I'm telling you now the ATF person not answering those emails will not shift blame to the ATF.
I suspect there is so much more to this story. What is going to be funny is when that Inspector finds all of those emails when he comes in May.
Regardless of what someone tells you did right or wrong thank you for bringing this up and asking. It is a most unusual situation but probably not the first. You just needed to be persistent to get that magazine inspected and make the ATF aware. Get that product back to official storage where you purchased it. I'm unsure if I should ask this question , I personally would love to see what that magazine looks like.

[Troy]

I guess it should be no surprise that I would get a smart-ass response when I ask for help. I am also grateful for your condescending opinion on somehow knowing I am not disclosing all of the details. For clarity, the interviewing ATF associate is the one not responding to our emails. Trying to have some humility may serve you better in life overall...

[displayfireworks1]

I guess it should be no surprise that I would get a smart-ass response when I ask for help. I am also grateful for your condescending opinion on somehow knowing I am not disclosing all of the details. For clarity, the interviewing ATF associate is the one not responding to our emails. Trying to have some humility may serve you better in life overall...

Funny I don't see a smart-ass comment on the board. Yes, I still do believe you not disclosing all of the details, that is correct. Because you got mad I didn't believe everything , it actually confirms it more. You ask for help. I tried to give you a honest factual answer and some possible solutions maybe not the answer you wanted to hear. You guys are trying to do the right thing with the magazine, go back and make it right. Although now I'm suspicious there even is a magazine. Either way best of luck to you sir and get yourself fully legal, the ATF will actually help you get there if you ask. But don't email call this time LOL

[Troy]

Sorry, I'm not mad in the least. I needed help and got, what I consider to be, an undesirable response from BMoore. I obviously did something incorrectly and am simply trying to get it corrected. There isn't a back story. It really was meant to be a straightforward question.

Thank you.

[displayfireworks1]

Sorry, I'm not mad in the least. I needed help and got, what I consider to be, an undesirable response from BMoore. I obviously did something incorrectly and am simply trying to get it corrected. There isn't a back story. It really was meant to be a straightforward question.

Thank you.

Troy he gave you good advise in that last sentence. let it go , now we are parsing induvial statements instead of the general objective of the post. Think it over . sometimes in life its not how you fall in a ditch, its how you crawl back out.

[BMoore]

Troy - I think you are taking my response the wrong way, but apologies if I offended you. The drivers license analogy was just that....an analogy as to how this will most likely be looked at in the eyes of the law. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass. The reason I assume there is more to the story is that it is impossible to get a type 54 without access to storage, either your own approved magazine or contingency storage. With that being the case, how did you come into possession of product with no place to store it other than this yet to be approved magazine? It sounds like this is a display company, so where was product stored in the past? I stand by my original suggestion. Call the ATF and have an open and honest discussion. In general they will help honest people stay in compliance. The last thing you want is for them to discover this when they show up to inspect the magazine.

[Engineer Cat]

Troy. I'm about to file for my 54. I been wanting to do this for over 2 years. It is this forum that helped me to understand the steps that need to take place to get it. Personally (maybe I've been here to long) I found your post very interesting and I didn't feel Bmoore's reply was disrespectful. I found it easy to understand. It's a no bullshit reply. I just feel the answer wasn't what you wanted to hear. In all fairness. NO matter how long you or your buddy with the 54 has had it, you guy's don't have the knowledge you should to have the 54. But that's OK. You came to the right place. There are pyros here with decades of knowledge and each one will help you to know what you can and can do. This is where you want to be for cold hard facts. I mean we are dealing with explosive's here. Don't you want to know the fact if your compliant or not? With the Feds! You're not. That's the bottom line. "I haven't heard from the ATF so I'm just going to go about my business" wont fly with the ATF and the replies you received here are letting you know this. Hopefully any place you post this same question looking for answers, provides the same answer you get here. If not then there's a bigger problem in our community.

You have no history on this forum. You joined yesterday. You got replies from the OWNER of the forum who started it 12 years ago and member who has been here for 6 years and you decide to reply with " condescending jerk"?

I'm not being a dick. Nor was Bmoore or Displayfireworks1. You received a legit answers, and some questions to what exactly you have going on so the answer could be the best possible for your situation. We are not a bunch of clowns here. We follow rules and are learning the rules so that we can enjoy this hobby without hurting ourselves or others. Take the information and do what you wish, but you won't get the answers you want if you expect us to just side with you. If you want people to just say" NAAH you're good", this isn't the place. There's plenty of places and youtube channels that will let you run amuck. We won't let you do that here. Knowledge is key and we will help with that if we can.

With that said FRESH START! We hope you stay and learn some stuff. I love this hobby as well as others here. You should also add your state to your profile so other members from there can give you information that is relevant to your state.

[Arclight]

I would try to get your product stored at the supplier who you bought it from, then call ATF and get that inspection scheduled. You can start with the ATF FELC line at: (877) 283-3352

Or e-mail them: eipb@atf.gov

The center in Martinsburg, WV is very responsive.

I would really try to get that product squared away BEFORE you call them. It might be OK as is or it might not. Most of the time, people storing things in a magazine that ATF hasn't inspected already have at least one inspected magazine and are setting up something temporary for a job/shoot. Your situation is a bit unusual in that you have a new permanent mag they haven't seen.

[Troy]

I appreciate all the feedback and apologize for my assessment of BMoore's response. Accordingly, I am heeding the advice provided by all in this thread - Thank you.

If okay, I would like to ask an additional question. Does anyone have a good reference for NEC lighting requirements in a magazine? An electrician installed LED fixtures in solid conduit and placed the switch on the outside. From what I recall reading on the ATF website, I need to provide documentation showing it is compliant. At this time, I do not understand what kind of document they would be looking for - something from the electrician? Or?

Thank you to everyone once again.

[Arclight]

It's NFPA 70-81, per the regs. I would say a statement from your electrician that it "meets or exceeds" this code would suffice.

[jr99svt]

I appreciate all the feedback and apologize for my assessment of BMoore's response. Accordingly, I am heeding the advice provided by all in this thread - Thank you.

If okay, I would like to ask an additional question. Does anyone have a good reference for NEC lighting requirements in a magazine? An electrician installed LED fixtures in solid conduit and placed the switch on the outside. From what I recall reading on the ATF website, I need to provide documentation showing it is compliant. At this time, I do not understand what kind of document they would be looking for - something from the electrician? Or?

Thank you to everyone once again.

NFPA NEC 70 article 500 covers hazardous locations. if your putting electric in a mag, explosion proof fixtures, switches and RMC conduit must be used.

[displayfireworks1]

Don't these explosive proof lighting fixtures carry some sort of rating and identification system, Would be great to hear from someone to explain .
.
6487

[jr99svt]

EX in the yellow placard means its an explosion rated fixture for hazardous locations.
UL means underwriters Laboratory. they test electrical equipment.
C1D1 in the red placard means For use in a Class 1 Division 1 location.

the Hazardous locations section of the codebook is a bit complex, and interpretation varies wildly between inspectors.