New Magazine

[SWMO]

Hello All, I purchased the CD's from Dave and was successful on my first try to get licensed in the state of Missouri. I followed the instructions and paid attention to the suggestion to use contingent storage for my initial ATF application. Now that I am licensed, I was able to find a used magazine and purchased it and brought it home. I have looked at the ATF website for how to apply for onsite storage, but I am not having any luck. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to get my magazine inspected and approved?

Here are some pictures of the little beauty.

[Arclight]

You can see my type 2 magazine rebuild. Your type 4 looks pretty much ready to use. Just buy a couple of ATF-compliant locks and place it sufficiently far away from your neighbors, the road, etc. per the table of distances for low explosives.

https://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/showthread.php?7486-Type-II-Magazine-Refurb&highlight=type+II

You tell the ATF that you plan to install a magazine on your Federal Explosive License application. They will want to know what it's made of, the size, location, etc. It's all there on page 5:

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs/form/application-explosives-license-or-permit-atf-form-540013540016/download

For locks, they need to have a 3/8" thick steel shackle and at least 5 tumblers. I really like the ABUS 83 series locks, as they are easy to rekey, available in sizes appropriate for this and you can get them master-keyed, so your magazine key can work the gates/etc. to your facility but not the other way around.

Arclight

[Arclight]

Hello All, I purchased the CD's from Dave and was successful on my first try to get licensed in the state of Missouri. I followed the instructions and paid attention to the suggestion to use contingent storage for my initial ATF application. Now that I am licensed, I was able to find a used magazine and purchased it and brought it home. I have looked at the ATF website for how to apply for onsite storage, but I am not having any luck. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to get my magazine inspected and approved?

Here are some pictures of the little beauty.

Just saw that you already have a license. In that case, I would start with an e-mail to ATF's Explosives Industry Programs Branch:
EIPB@atf.gov

You will also need to notify your local fire department.

[displayfireworks1]

Great post and a nice magazine. Arclight is from California, things may be different in your State of Missouri. Don't rush to call the fire department. I know here in Pennsylvania, magazines are approved by the State of Pennsylvania first. Then the ATF. West Virginia does the opposite , they let the ATF approve it first, then the state just rubber stamps it. Lets wait until someone from Missouri can give some more information.
I know in Texas the local fire department told a magazine applicant no initially. I remember talking to the ATF on his behalf and saying its easy for the local fire department dude to say no. There nothing in it for him. He eventually did get the magazine approved despite that local fire person. In Pennsylvania the state person inspects the magazine using the ATF orange book, its redundant government. The state also charges a small fee. On a side note , you are doing it the best way. First obtain the ATF Display Fireworks license and once that is complete , then move on to getting the magazine. It seems to flow easier in that fashion.

[Engineer Cat]

At a club meeting a few weeks ago I met a guy from the same state I'm in who has a 54. Being I'm looking to get mine sometime next year I was asking him how hard it was to get being we live in one of the most anti firework states in the country. He said it wasn't hard at all but what was difficult was dealing with the state fire marshal. He lives in a town that's close to PA and is very rural. He has more than enough property for a magazine for what is required by the ATF. He said when he was trying to get a mag setup so he can get his 54 that the fire marshal told him in no way, over his dead body would he approve a magazine of any sorts on his property. He ended up getting contingency storage to meet the requirements for the 54. He actually makes most of his fireworks so I'm not sure if this had something to do with the the fire marshal being a dick.

My question is, how do you navigate these types of A holes that are on a power trip when you can meet the standard that the federal goverment requires but you still got this clown telling you no?

For the record, I can't meet the requirements of space for a mag when I file for my 54 so contingency is my only option, which is fine. I have a number of options for that now. I'm just curious how you guys that fully meet all the requirements navigate these power tripping authorities?

6471

[Arclight]

At a club meeting a few weeks ago I met a guy from the same state I'm in who has a 54. Being I'm looking to get mine sometime next year I was asking him how hard it was to get being we live in one of the most anti firework states in the country. He said it wasn't hard at all but what was difficult was dealing with the state fire marshal. He lives in a town that's close to PA and is very rural. He has more than enough property for a magazine for what is required by the ATF. He said when he was trying to get a mag setup so he can get his 54 that the fire marshal told him in no way, over his dead body would he approve a magazine of any sorts on his property. He ended up getting contingency storage to meet the requirements for the 54. He actually makes most of his fireworks so I'm not sure if this had something to do with the the fire marshal being a dick.

My question is, how do you navigate these types of A holes that are on a power trip when you can meet the standard that the federal goverment requires but you still got this clown telling you no?

For the record, I can't meet the requirements of space for a mag when I file for my 54 so contingency is my only option, which is fine. I have a number of options for that now. I'm just curious how you guys that fully meet all the requirements navigate these power tripping authorities?

6471

I'm going to speak to my experience setting up an explosives and blasting operation in California, which everyone told me would be impossible when I started.

Approach this like you were a business who needed to get this done. Politely ask them what specific permits are needed under the law and get them to send you a copy of the requirements. Then compare what they send you to the actual law and work on either complying with the requirement or coming up with a well-reasoned response about why you think it doesn't apply. Try to over-comply with the easy ones as it will give you more leverage with the harder ones.

For instance, they might say they are worried about "Terrorists blowing it up." Your state likely has no requirement that your magazine be 100% defended from ISIS, but you can make a written security plan, install a couple of game cameras, and put up some inexpensive physical barriers to keep vehicles away. Present this all in a neat PDF or printed packet with "circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back describing each one" like the "legal compliance" group at a big business would. If you can spend, say $300 and make the response look somewhat professional then it's harder for the Fire Marshall to keep saying "No way."

Also, it wouldn't be bad to have some sort of written partnership, business plan, etc. to show them what you do. Anything that makes it easy for a bureaucrat to put something in your file that makes them look like they did due diligence is going to help.

If the person you are dealing with is particularly difficult, see if there are other people who can help or that you can meet to get on your side, such as another inspector, the volunteer fire guys, or some sort of board that oversees them. Pay the long game and you'll probably succeed.

[Salutecake]

Nice post Dave and Arclight!
I think the big thing is to try and find out the rules and regulations for your State and local communit, and the appropriate people to contact. As Dave mentioned above in PA the state approves and then the ATF, I hear somethimes they coordinate the inspection at the same time.

I have not looked at the PA rules lately but I thought as mentioned above PA State then ATF --- the part I am not sure about (in PA) is that I think it use to read that you must notify your local Fire Department. I don't think it ever said you need the local fire department's approval. Even if I'm totally wrong on this point, like in Dave's tapes, give them only what they need or ask for, if the fire dept only needs to be notified after you get the mag, send them a letter after you get approval, don't go getting people invovled when their invovement is not needed. It only tend to put a wrench in the works.

[Arclight]

Just curious: How did you find that magazine? I got mine from a Ritchie Brothers auction and paid a guy on uShip to haul it out for me.

[SWMO]

Just curious: How did you find that magazine? I got mine from a Ritchie Brothers auction and paid a guy on uShip to haul it out for me.

Thanks for all your help Arc, I got really lucky and found this on Facebook Marketplace for sale only 50 miles from my home. It was used for an attraction at one of our tourist destinations that is no longer using pyrotechnics. I was more than happy to go pick it up and they loaded it for me and I was on my way. Round trip of about 3 and 1/2 hours total. I was super excited to get it. He said they were $8000 new but I did not pay anywhere near that.

[shake the cove]

Just saw that you already have a license. In that case, I would start with an e-mail to ATF's Explosives Industry Programs Branch:
EIPB@atf.gov

You will also need to notify your local fire department.

My local ATF agent required me to send a letter to the local fire chief. I sent an aerial view off google earth and marked where i had my container, however I am not in any city limits I reside in what you call farm area.
You must of had contingency storage when you got the license AFT will not grant unless you do without a storage container to inspect.

[SWMO]

Hello Shake,

Yes, I had a contingency plan filed with my license application. I have not bought any 1.3 yet.
Also, I did email the address you provided and got a response with the email of my local field office. I emailed that and they replied back with the correct form to fill out so, I have started that process.

Thanks to all for the help.