Day Time Items Safety

[d_vova]

I have been interested in making interactive displays where the crowd (mostly kids) can participate. So I have been looking into day time items like parachute, smoke, and confetti cakes. I cannot seem to find any information on safety guidelines for these items.

Since these are aerial fireworks, the state guidelines suggest/require a minimum distance of 150'. My confusion is stemming from the fact that such fireworks do not produce huge bursts of burning particles and are rendered useless at the stated distance. Do these fireworks fall into a separate category? What is an actual safe distance for using these items (even if it contradicts the general state requirement)?

[Birdman]

I assume these are treated just as any other firework as far as laws and safe use are concerned. In PA they would need to be lit 150' away from any buildings or vehicles. I believe safety guidelines are 75' for every 1" of tube diameter and that includes spectators but local laws supersede safety guidelines. Again, I'm not certain so hopefully someone else has some concrete answers for you.

I will warn you out of personal experience to be careful with parachutes. I lit one off for my grand child that had a small flair on it. While the flair was short lived it was still very hot when my grandson retrieved it off the ground. He received a very minor burn but to this day he remembers it and prefers to keep a safe distance from any firework I light for him.

[d_vova]

Thank you for the warning about parachute flares. I have been wondering about that as well.

Regarding 75' (or 70' according to a number of sources) for every 1'' of tube diameter: my understanding is that this distance is derived from the diameter of the anticipated explosion based on the expected amount of composition within the payload to prevent injuries when shells explode too close to the ground. As far as I can tell, day time items contain very little composition in the payload. Most of it is in the lift charge. This is why I do not think that the tube diameter rule is applicable in this case.

Additional evidence that this rule does not often work for consumer fireworks: the law limits the diameter of reloadable shells to 1.75'' but somehow allows 3'' preloaded tubes. I think it is not about the diameter of the tube but about the amount of composition. The diameter of the tube in reloadable kit serves as a safeguard to prevent people from putting over 60g of powder into a tube due to their ignorance/negligence. Also the safe distance for those 3'' preloaded tubes and NOABs is still 125'-150' and not over 210'.

[Arles]

Thank you for the warning about parachute flares. I have been wondering about that as well.

Regarding 75' (or 70' according to a number of sources) for every 1'' of tube diameter: my understanding is that this distance is derived from the diameter of the anticipated explosion based on the expected amount of composition within the payload to prevent injuries when shells explode too close to the ground. As far as I can tell, day time items contain very little composition in the payload. Most of it is in the lift charge. This is why I do not think that the tube diameter rule is applicable in this case.

Additional evidence that this rule does not often work for consumer fireworks: the law limits the diameter of reloadable shells to 1.75'' but somehow allows 3'' preloaded tubes. I think it is not about the diameter of the tube but about the amount of composition. The diameter of the tube in reloadable kit serves as a safeguard to prevent people from putting over 60g of powder into a tube due to their ignorance/negligence. Also the safe distance for those 3'' preloaded tubes and NOABs is still 125'-150' and not over 210'.

I believe PGI calls for doubling the minimum '75 distance or 70' per inch for chain fused aerials if those are cakes. (and I yes, those are 1.3G, but without some other authority advising otherwise, I personally wouldn't deviate)

I think PGI does allow for an exception for nonsplitting and non-chained comets and mines as 35' per inch.

I believe the distance specification is also based on the anticipated height that the firework is expected to reach.

I'm not sure what you mean by interactive, but sometimes I'll have a rack of single shot comets and mines(with a slice or two) that every kid gets to pick a number and press the firing button on the Cobra. I would never let kids hand light anything.

[d_vova]

I wouldn't allow most adults to light fireworks, let alone kids. By interactive I mean chasing and catching parachutes and streamers.

Let me do some napkin math here...

The tubes of the confetti cake I have measure around 0.5'' which would result in 35' distance. Based on the videos this is roughly where the majority of all streamers are expected to land.

The parachute cakes have not arrived yet, but I suspect they measure around 0.5''-1'' which would result in 70' distance. This is roughly where I expect the audience to be for these items.

The 35' guidance would make sense for the larger 2'' and 3'' stand alone parachutes. Do you know if they are they considered to be splitting?

[Arles]

Ha, I agree with you on that!

I believe the 1.3 PGI spec is that 75' in the minimum distance below 1" regardless of size for bursting aerials. The 70' rule per inch kicks in at 1.5" (105 for 1.5"). But again that goes out the window when you have chained fuses (I would consider a cake to be chained fused), the concern being that if the rack or cake is blown apart, you can have the remaining effects in the chain going in any direction.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the parachutes. I generally put folding tables on their sides next to the fireworks as a barrier to hopefully help knock down any errant shots. And yes, a 3" 1.3 shell will blow right through 1/2 plywood at the muzzle, so it may not be enough to stop a consumer grade, but I feel like it's better than nothing for consumer stuff. I'm sure you can makes something work... I've also thought about doing the parachute thing, but Birdman brings up a great point about them being hot when the land. Let us know what you come up with.

[Salutecake]

I would suggest you look into finding a course on Theatrical and Stage fireworks. Some of those products can be used within 5 ft of a stage person (with permission from that person). You will have to provide your qualification to a vendor before they will sell you anything.

[WithReport]

Some things to consider.

I have shot some of the large parachute effects in the past and very large clay plugs came down and hit someone in the head.

I've seen the "army men" cannisters parachute items and those are fairly large heavy plugs.

Most of the small parachutes with just a cardboard cylinder are fairly benign, but if any of them provide smoke - they will be HOT.

But even with the streamers, I would check to see if they have any heat to them.

I did buy a case of the large colored smoke balls (they are just cylinders packaged in a ball). I had some parents light a bunch of the smoke balls. Kids love the smoke, just don't let them touch them. Probably not great to breathe, but ....

Also, we have a pneumatic launcher we built for launching candy out in the field for all the kids to chase. This has been a hit year after year on the 4th.


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We used to put all the kids in a huge circle and hand each one a sparker with their parents. That was fun and amazingly no one ever got hurt, but we stopped that a few years a go as attendance grew - we new someone was eventually going to get burned.

[Birdman]

Always wondered if there were any weights attached to the streamer cakes. From the videos I watched it looks like they were weighted with something.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I have shot some of the large parachute effects in the past and very large clay plugs came down and hit someone in the head.

I've seen the "army men" cannisters parachute items and those are fairly large heavy plugs.

Parachute cakes were really popular at PGI this year. Like you indicated, we had clay plugs crashing down all over the place too. A number of people got hit, including me. For that reason alone I wouldn't use those cakes around my grandkids.

[Mattp]

Not sure how little of kids your talking,,, but bang snaps are always a favorite,, they’ll do them all day ,,, they even make spring loaded confetti or streamer cannons,, or even the party poppers,, no where near as cool as the stuff you mentioned,,, but definitely way safer!! Also In my experience the single shot “day” parachutes are pretty safe too,,, light them away from the kids,, but let them go chasing,,, I’ve never had an issue with one of those,, never used the cake, smoke or army men ones so I can’t speak for them

[Engineer Cat]

Parachute cakes were really popular at PGI this year. Like you indicated, we had clay plugs crashing down all over the place too. A number of people got hit, including me. For that reason alone I wouldn't use those cakes around my grandkids.

I enjoy fallout but I don't want my audience to experience it. LOL

I know you guys all love your kids, nieces and nephews as do I but I don't focus my 4th of July fireworks around them. The older kids like to light stuff after the show so I always have stuff for them to play with under my supervision but the kids younger than that get bang snaps, glow sticks and snakes for their parents to light for them if they want to.

Other than that, water rockets and air rockets are enough to keep them happy and they can try to catch them coming down.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

the kids younger than that get bang snaps, glow sticks and snakes for their parents to light for them

OMG! Snakes were a huge hit back when I was a kid. I didn't know they still made them. A guy I know at PGI was talking to me about what we used to get in the old days, and I mentioned snakes. I told him I didn't think they even made them anymore. Next thing I know he left and returned with a pack of snakes for me! They were nothing like I recall playing with back in the 70's, but they were still cool.

[Arclight]

I think the minimum safe distance also depends a lot on how predictable the item in question is and what the worst-case malfunction looks like. I've set off a bundle of dynamite from ~50 yards away. We wore PPE incuding hardhats and did it on a bare earth surface 100% free of rocks. I wouldn't want to be 50 yards away from a 2.5lb homemade rocket.

[WithReport]

I have been interested in making interactive displays where the crowd (mostly kids) can participate....


... I've set off a bundle of dynamite from ~50 yards away. We wore PPE incuding hardhats and did it on a bare earth surface 100% free of rocks. ....

Seems like there is a disconnect here, or is it just me ;)

(I'd personally would like to see the bundle of dynamite)

[WithReport]

Interactive idea you could do.

Just wire up a bunch of doorbell switches with 9V Batteries.

Run the circuit out a safe distance and match individual smoke cake tubes.

You could have that "Bang!" song playing and each time it says "Bang" they could hit their doorbell switch. If you added a sequencer, you could use just one switch.