Beginner Help - Pyromusical

[randomrobot]

Can someone link a thread or videos that show the basics of getting into pyromusicals? All your shows looks so amazing and I would love to take my show to the next level. About 4 years ago I figured out that instead of just spending 2 hours on the 4th hand lighting every cake and mortar I can actually fuse them all together and start doing an actual show. I started watching videos of each cake I bought and figured out roughly the time, effect, and sound of each so I can keep a good flow by measuring out the length and time of the fusing. Friends and family are impressed that I can light one fuse and we can all sit back and watch a 12-15 mins show but I know there is so much more potential. All the videos I find show how to use the firing systems or how to use the ignitors in a cake but I do not understand how you are firing, what seems to be, every shot on command. Appreciate the help.

[Birdman]

Everything you need to know is archived somewhere on these forums. But it starts with getting a firing system and learning how to poke and wire cakes with MJG initiators. This allows you to instant fire most fireworks. Also take some time too not only to learn how to do it but also do it safely. You can always get any specific questions you have answered here but giving a pyromusical 101 lesson is not practical. There's just too much to cover. But you probably want to start with looking on here and youtube on how to poke cakes and go from there.

[randomrobot]

I figured it's all here somewhere, I just didn't now what I should even be looking for so that actually helps- I'll start looking at poking cakes.

Thank you.

[Arles]

Can someone link a thread or videos that show the basics of getting into pyromusicals? All your shows looks so amazing and I would love to take my show to the next level. About 4 years ago I figured out that instead of just spending 2 hours on the 4th hand lighting every cake and mortar I can actually fuse them all together and start doing an actual show. I started watching videos of each cake I bought and figured out roughly the time, effect, and sound of each so I can keep a good flow by measuring out the length and time of the fusing. Friends and family are impressed that I can light one fuse and we can all sit back and watch a 12-15 mins show but I know there is so much more potential. All the videos I find show how to use the firing systems or how to use the ignitors in a cake but I do not understand how you are firing, what seems to be, every shot on command. Appreciate the help.

As Birdman said, there is a lot of background that you need to know that can all be found here and on youtube.

I am in the Cobra ecosystem and use Cobra Show Creator to script my shows. Here is a video... I use the Cobra Audio Box, but that is no longer necessary with the support of SMPT (firing to music)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afqIcHP1frE

I can't speak for the other systems, but Cobra makes it very easy to do a pyromusical, there is a ton of information (some of it linked to here) on their site as well. Good luck!

[randomrobot]

I think the programming makes a lot of sense to me. I have a good amount of experience working Protools, Garageband, and running live sound with digital boards so that part of it shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure the rest of it will make sense once I figure out if you guys are poking each individual tube in a cake or if there's something I'm missing as to how each shot is so in time. I really think that the lead given by Birdman to start researching poke the cake (I really hope someone makes a T-shirt that with that on it) has already been helpful.

[Birdman]

There's so many ways to get the timing and effects you want. It can be as simple as poking the first tube in cake and letting fire as it normally would. Some modify cakes so just the tubes they want to fire fire on cue. There are also fireworks made to instant fire that aren't available to just anyone but don't require an ATF license to purchase. Sometimes we're still lighting fuse and just timing in any delay. It really depends on the product, the show or even the person. I would say many us do a little of everything in our shows. It just requires a lot of research and planning to pull it off. There are people on here that are already starting to think about what they want to do next year. This is an almost all year long process for many us.

[Jay_]

As posted above, the key is the equipment. If I hadn’t gotten bit by the pyromusical bug, I’d still be using a Chinese e-fire system.

Firelinx, Cobra, mongoose, ect.. all make fantastic systems that are durable and pretty user friendly. I only have experience with the cobra system, but also as posted above the scripting software is extremely easy to use. If you can imagine it, you can make the system do it.

Another big thing is gaining product knowledge. I spend a TON of time researching what is out there and watching product videos.

You need the product knowledge so when you are driving down the road and you hear “that song” you can start to visualize what product you want to shoot with a certain element in a song. You could very well script an entire song around that one element that is so important to you.

Scripting is by far my favorite part of the process. Nothing like hearing a song, visualizing what effect to put with that element, and getting that big smile on your face and saying “f yeah” to yourself while scripting it. When (and if) you actually hit it in your show, it’s an extremely satisfying feeling.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

"the basics of getting into pyro musicals"....

Well, at the risk of sounding snarky, the basics are, pyro and music. Before you think I'm a total a-hole, I say that to (hopefully) make the point that there is no rulebook. There is no "certain way" to do this.

My buddy just put 80 cases of pyro into the air in 28 min with music playing. Was that a pyro musical? I put 40 cases in the air in 21 min using fan slices to accent parts of the songs, and certain cakes aligned as best I could with the songs I was playing. Is that a pyro musical? IMHO, it is. (Duh! That's why I do it that way!)

The bottom line is, it's up to you. What do YOU consider a "pyro musical?" What specifically do you hope to accomplish? How much time and money are you able to invest to make your vision a reality? What is your long term vision for your hobby? How much space do you have to shoot your show? etc. and so on. Lots and lots to consider. But there are no right or wrong answers. It's your time, your money, your vision, your show. Decide what you want to do SPECIFICALLY, and there are more than enough people here who can help you get there from here.

[jtfannin]

"the basics of getting into pyro musicals"....

Well, at the risk of sounding snarky, the basics are, pyro and music. Before you think I'm a total a-hole, I say that to (hopefully) make the point that there is no rulebook. There is no "certain way" to do this.

My buddy just put 80 cases of pyro into the air in 28 min with music playing. Was that a pyro musical? I put 40 cases in the air in 21 min using fan slices to accent parts of the songs, and certain cakes aligned as best I could with the songs I was playing. Is that a pyro musical? IMHO, it is. (Duh! That's why I do it that way!)

The bottom line is, it's up to you. What do YOU consider a "pyro musical?" What specifically do you hope to accomplish? How much time and money are you able to invest to make your vision a reality? What is your long term vision for your hobby? How much space do you have to shoot your show? etc. and so on. Lots and lots to consider. But there are no right or wrong answers. It's your time, your money, your vision, your show. Decide what you want to do SPECIFICALLY, and there are more than enough people here who can help you get there from here.

Well said Rick. I agree 100% that a pyro musical is more about the creators vision than anything else. I always start with music and then try to fit product around my vision. No matter what there is always a compromise on available product. Be prepared to spend a lot of time working on the fine details.

[Birdman]

Another big thing is gaining product knowledge. I spend a TON of time researching what is out there and watching product videos.

You need the product knowledge so when you are driving down the road and you hear “that song” you can start to visualize what product you want to shoot with a certain element in a song. You could very well script an entire song around that one element that is so important to you.

Scripting is by far my favorite part of the process. Nothing like hearing a song, visualizing what effect to put with that element, and getting that big smile on your face and saying “f yeah” to yourself while scripting it. When (and if) you actually hit it in your show, it’s an extremely satisfying feeling.

Can't be said enough and the more you know what product is available the easier and more fun scripting becomes. But then you need to figure out how to wire, fuse and position your product to get it to fire the way you envision. Not to mention you need to make sure you can get that product. I would say most of us are trying something new every show while building on what we've already learned. It's a lot of trial and error and not everyone has Elon Musk level of resources to repeatedly test and learn from failures before show time. My suggestion is start by replacing what you're doing with fuse with e-firing and then go from there.

[Scotty Rockets]

My advice is to watch many professional pyromusicals and try to retain as much as you can. We don’t use fuse in pyromusicals, every cake is ematched directly so there is no delay. Some of us like harvest individual tubes from cakes, ematch individual rows or shots. The more advanced you get the more it becomes all single shots. Grow your equipment, from cues to specialized racks.

[gecko2015]

I started watching videos of each cake I bought and figured out roughly the time, effect, and sound of each so I can keep a good flow by measuring out the length and time of the fusing..

Even with a Cobra firing system using a SMPTE timecodes I still do this with firework cake timing and effects :D. But otherwise, my shows started out exactly like this - I'd fuse my shows on 10-15mins fuses without a firing system just a few years ago. It's how most people started out on here.

But hopefully to help you, I'll list the steps I took to get into pyromusicals:

1. Purchase a good quality firing system
a. I personally have Cobra firing system, but there's others out there. I have no knowledge of others, so my information will just be regarding Cobra.
b. You need a controller to send a signal to fire the firework and a fire control module to receive the signal to fire the firework.
b1. A standard fire control module has inputs that accept any audio-type wire, similar to what you'd find on the back of a surround sound system to hook up your speakers for the left and right speaker.
b2. MJG initiators can be purchased from Cobra (https://www.cobrafiringsystems.com/mjg_igniters.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwq5-WBhB7EiwAl-HEkjkJAnag7Bg0HUnIbntDd2Sv6WUmw5aykR2sekeTt0YOPoSt qDmYyBoC_YEQAvD_BwE) or directly from MJG (https://electricmatch.com/pyrotechnics/see/6/5/mjg-firewire-initiator) that go into these slots. They are simply copper audio-type wire that go into the left/right slots with a fire initiator on the end of the wire that 'plug' into your firework. When an electronic current is sent through them, it ignites a small flame. This flame needs to go into the VERY FIRST tube of the firework cake.
b3. To 'plug' your firework, you need to purchase a non-sparking brass awl (https://www.amazon.com/Non-Sparking-Fireworks-Saftey-Brass/dp/B074TW2VGP/ref=sr_1_2?crid=17REA17TA3K9H&keywords=brass+awl&qid=1657344234&sprefix=brass+awl%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-2). You pull the fuse to the firework (cutting away the paper/covering of the firework) and find where the fuse goes into the first tube and use this tool to 'poke' the first tube of the firework right next to where fuse is - to enlarge the hole next to where the fuse is entering the tube.
b4. Using the new enlarged hole next to the fuse, you will then insert the MJG initiator.
b5. Then shunt the end of the wire (twist the end of two wires together) for safety if you don't plan on hooking it up right away. This will ensue that no electrical current can make a proper circuit to ignite the MJG initiator. (arguably, you do this BEFORE inserting the initiator for safety). And you DON'T want to do this if you plan on traveling with the fireworks due to various State laws and safety reasons. Only plug and hook up your firework if you DON'T plan on transporting them.
b6. Then using "Dave's magic tape" you tape over the MJG initiator going into the tube to ensure it doesn't come loose and then tape over the break/cuts you made into the cake for additional water/moisture protection.
2. Once that is done, you now have a firework that is capable of igniting instantly, on demand. Now just take the other end of the wires and plug each wire into the red/black audio-type jacks. You can now use the controller to either:
a. Press the button manually on your controller to make it fire instantly or;
b. have it automatically ignite via scripting:
b1. If you do scripting, you can script it manually or do SMPTE scripting without a COBRA audio box which is what I do. SMPTE scripting is simply taking an audio file that the system syncs with your cues and has the igniter fire at that exact moment in the song.
b2. SMPTE scripting can be done by purchasing COBRA's SMPTE show creator (I think it's $50) and you just create the show you want via channels and cues with your music. For example: if you want Firework 1 to ignite at 3 secs in your show and Firework 2 and 3 to go off 5 seconds in your show, you just put what cue you want to fire at what time (i.e. Firework 1 @ 3 secs Ch1/Q1 and Firework 2 and 3 @ 5 seconds Ch1/Q2 (and wire both fireworks to the same cue slot)).
3. Then you load the program on your controller via a USB stick, plug one audio cord into your controller, the other into a speaker, arm your controller and press play on your song and BOOM! Your fireworks will go off exactly at the time you want them too.


2021 Show:
https://youtu.be/5WFunDT2a3U?t=415
Show starts at 6:54

2022 Shopw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInhoilxyro&ab_channel=Tyler
Finale starts at 10:00


It all sounds a bit more difficult and complicated writing it out. But if you go to Cobra firing system's YouTube channel and watch their videos on pyromusicals, it's really user-friendly and easy to learn. Just get a good-quality firing system, learn how to properly "plug" fireworks with initiators, then you create/edit the exact times you want those initiators to go off in your song, which will make your fireworks ignite at the exact time you want.

[Engineer Cat]

I think the programming makes a lot of sense to me. I have a good amount of experience working Protools, Garageband, and running live sound with digital boards so that part of it shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure the rest of it will make sense once I figure out if you guys are poking each individual tube in a cake or if there's something I'm missing as to how each shot is so in time. I really think that the lead given by Birdman to start researching poke the cake (I really hope someone makes a T-shirt that with that on it) has already been helpful.

I use to own a recoding studio using a pro tools rig. I use to also do live sound for different bands and bars. The programing that goes into pyromusicals is all about what cues you want to have fire at what times. It's not very difficult but you do have to know random pyro stuff to make it all work. For example a particular shell ematched will take 2 seconds to reach altitude when the cue is fired before it bursts. So you need to consider how long the lift time is so the shell breaks at the right time in the song to emphasize that part of the music.

I like to call my pyromusicals "quasi-pyromusicals". Not every single shot is timed exactly to the music. I actually use the BPM of the song I'm using to help match up the cakes that shoot in about the same BPM so that many of the breaks just happen to hit on beats. The first shot from the cake is always timed to an event in the song. Then random shells, comets and fans are used for expression. You asked if we ematch every single tube in a cake. You could do that, especially with a NOABs but a lot of us take apart fan cakes to use the fan pattern at different times instead of the whole cake just going through it's programed firing. It's called "rewiring".

AND all those single shots and fans eat up cues quick.

Here's my rewire of Wanderlust. I wanted to use the 4 fans at different parts in the show, but I wanted the rest of the cake to fire as designed.
6363

[randomrobot]

Thanks everyone. This has been the crash course I needed. It all makes a lot more sense to me now and I happened to come across a video that talked about wikifireworks. That's a cool resource I never knew about. Engineer Cat- that pic you shared in your last post was super helpful. I'm going to try to find more info on how to rewire the cakes. I think that's the part that was the most confusing, how you're using certain effects at different times. I see someone say they used this or that cake and then I watch the a video of said cake and I'm thinking, "I don't see that in that show". Got a lot of good ideas to look into now. Thanks to all for sharing your wealth of knowledge and inspiring others to do more.

[Mattp]

my 2 cents: start with a firing system... even just a cheap one just to get your feet wet.. learn how to use it.. and the igniters. for instant ignition,, learn what PRO products are or how to "poke" cakes.

for me and probably most of the people on here,, it all started with that really long, timed out and cut fuses .. then progressed into a firing system show, then upgraded firing system,, then into timed to music,,,then upgraded firing system some more,, and some more,, and more,, LOL no rush,, do it at your own pace as long as your comfortable with what your doing

[Engineer Cat]

for me and probably most of the people on here,, it all started with that really long, timed out and cut fuses .. then progressed into a firing system show, then upgraded firing system,, then into timed to music,,,then upgraded firing system some more,, and some more,, and more,, LOL no rush,, do it at your own pace as long as your comfortable with what your doing

LOL yep. Exactly what Matt said. :p

[randomrobot]

The guy I get my shells off of stopped by today and I told him I was thinking about buying a Cobra system and he offered me a 72M for $750 in a yellow Pelican case (not sure if that's something different than what it normally comes with). I'm pretty tempted to just do it but a little intimidated to start off with that big of a unit.

[Engineer Cat]

The guy I get my shells off of stopped by today and I told him I was thinking about buying a Cobra system and he offered me a 72M for $750 in a yellow Pelican case (not sure if that's something different than what it normally comes with). I'm pretty tempted to just do it but a little intimidated to start off with that big of a unit.

Does that include the 18R2 controller or just the 72M firing module? The controller cost $300 without a case.

I use Firelinx but here's some things to consider when getting a cobra or any pro firing system. 1, 72M module with quick plugs means you can connect 72 cakes or shells or whatever to it but all those items will need to be in pretty close proximity around the module. Quick plug initiators come in 15ft lengths. Can you get 72 items with a maximum distance of 15 feet around the firing module? Probably not. So then you would need to invest in Slats so you can extend those cues using DB25 cable (computer cable) in like a star pattern or something so you can fit all those devices in one area.

If you plan on having multiple firing positions you probably want something more like multiple 18Ms or 36Ms so you can spread the products out over the shoot site without having everything shooting on top of each other.

You will find that no matter which one you get, you will eventually need more cues so going big from the start isn't a bad thing. However it is a bad thing if you find that you can't fit all your product in one area or decide later you want to spread things out and can't because now you need slats or longer initiator wire. If it's not quick plugs you can always use scab wire to extent the lengths of the initiators, BUT that just adds to the work. Technically you can do that with quick plugs too but you are negating the point of the quick plugs at that point because it's going to take time to extend the initiator and then add the quick plug back onto it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

for me and probably most of the people on here,, it all started with that really long, timed out and cut fuses .. then progressed into a firing system show, then upgraded firing system,, then into timed to music,,,then upgraded firing system some more,, and some more,, and more,, LOL no rush,, do it at your own pace as long as your comfortable with what your doing

OMG... I still remember building 2'x8' boards with cakes and stringing long runs of visco. I was literally down there on my hands and knees with a tape measure trying to attach the cake fuse to the leader fuse at just the right point so it would go off when I wanted it to. I feel like such an idiot now looking back on it, but, I guess it's just part of paying your pyro dues. You don't know what you don't know and sometimes it's very time consuming and painful! That's where forums like this really show their worth.

For as many years as I have been on here, I can honestly say that the crowd this forum attracts, are serious people who want to learn and share information. Every so often a knucklehead shows up, shows his ass, then leaves. But those people are few and far between. Dave does a really good job of leaving us alone to share info and have fun, but he chimes in when necessary to keep things going smoothly, and to share info that is important to all of us. It's really been a joy being here all these years.

[randomrobot]

OMG... I still remember building 2'x8' boards with cakes and stringing long runs of visco. I was literally down there on my hands and knees with a tape measure trying to attach the cake fuse to the leader fuse at just the right point so it would go off when I wanted it to. I feel like such an idiot now looking back on it, but, I guess it's just part of paying your pyro dues. You don't know what you don't know and sometimes it's very time consuming and painful!

That's where I've outsmarted everyone. I've been using 2'x4' plywood so I can move them by myself.

[Engineer Cat]

OMG... I still remember building 2'x8' boards with cakes and stringing long runs of visco. I was literally down there on my hands and knees with a tape measure trying to attach the cake fuse to the leader fuse at just the right point so it would go off when I wanted it to. I feel like such an idiot now looking back on it, but, I guess it's just part of paying your pyro dues. You don't know what you don't know and sometimes it's very time consuming and painful! That's where forums like this really show their worth.

For as many years as I have been on here, I can honestly say that the crowd this forum attracts, are serious people who want to learn and share information. Every so often a knucklehead shows up, shows his ass, then leaves. But those people are few and far between. Dave does a really good job of leaving us alone to share info and have fun, but he chimes in when necessary to keep things going smoothly, and to share info that is important to all of us. It's really been a joy being here all these years.

Couldn't agree more. Timing fused cakes together is difficult but a great way to learn the basics. If no one did that to start I don't think they would possess the basic knowledge of how to time out a show. They wouldn't know different color fuses have different fps burn rates.

Kind of like these young wippersnappers now a days having no respect for the OGs of music. They'll cover those songs but not know anything about why that song is played in the minor pentatonic scale. IF they even know the pentatonic scale.

[Engineer Cat]

That's where I've outsmarted everyone. I've been using 2'x4' plywood so I can move them by myself.

Damn I must be a weakling. I use 2x4 boards and need help moving them. :(

6367

[Birdman]

Couldn't agree more. Timing fused cakes together is difficult but a great way to learn the basics. If no one did that to start I don't think they would possess the basic knowledge of how to time out a show. They wouldn't know different color fuses have different fps burn rates.

Kind of like these young wippersnappers now a days having no respect for the OGs of music. They'll cover those songs but not know anything about why that song is played in the minor pentatonic scale. IF they even know the pentatonic scale.

I never did a fully fused show. I went from hand firing cakes one by one to e-firing. My first shows did consist of a lot of small cakes, candles, fountains etc where I used a lot fuse but a majority of the show was still e-fired. I still use fuse on my bricks of cakes and on racks of shells and use different speed fuse to get the timing I'm hoping for. I don't think I've suffered from not having that fully fused show experience. However, what I may have lost in hands on experience I made up for by doing lots of research. I watched many videos on fusing cakes and racks and have spent countless hours here sucking in all of the knowledge that has been shared. There's nothing better than hands on experience but if you're willing to put the time in to learn from other's experiences it's a close second.

I'm going to try to eliminate as much fuse as possible next year even if it means more prep, cues and setup time. I had 2 bricks of cakes not fire during the finale because the visco connector failed to light the fuse. I could have wired these this year but opted for fusing because it saved me time. Next year I'll need to be nearly out of cues before I opt for fusing.

[esgrillo]

Get some great songs... put them in a playlist and listen to them dozens of times and get some idea what you want to script. I have my 2023 songs in a spotify playlist and run to it every morning.

I use cobra as most do for the scripting process. I have transitioned to originally just playing music in the background with limited cobra equipment to a pretty elaborate set up. You will learn as you go.

Watch a lot of videos and ask questions when you see something you like.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Kind of like these young wippersnappers now a days having no respect for the OGs of music. They'll cover those songs but not know anything about why that song is played in the minor pentatonic scale. IF they even know the pentatonic scale.

OMG... I've been creating nice callouses on my fingertips learning major and minor pentatonic scales the past few months. I think I'd rather poke cakes! Lol...

[Engineer Cat]

OMG... I've been creating nice callouses on my fingertips learning major and minor pentatonic scales the past few months. I think I'd rather poke cakes! Lol...

LOL totally agree.

You going to script shows to your own music next year? :p

[Rick_In_Tampa]

LOL totally agree.

You going to script shows to your own music next year? :p

I've got 3 months of guitar lessons under my belt. I can use power chords to play "Cocaine" "Tennessee Whiskey" and "Hit me with your best shot." I taught myself the first 8 bars of Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Life by the Drop." So I won't be booking any concert halls any time soon. :cool:

[Engineer Cat]

I've got 3 months of guitar lessons under my belt. I can use power chords to play "Cocaine" "Tennessee Whiskey" and "Hit me with your best shot." I taught myself the first 8 bars of Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Life by the Drop." So I won't be booking any concert halls any time soon. :cool:

That's a good start. I played bass many many years ago in a few bands. Then I switched to recording music and just messing around jamming in the studio here and there. During covid I got a cheap Epiphone guitar to mess around with. I can't play squat on it. LOL and the basses collect a lot of dust when not in use. LOL

[PyroFL]

@ Rick

You better step up your game

I volunteered you next year to play the national anthem Jimi Hendrix style.

Forgot to tell ya

https://youtu.be/ezI1uya213I

[randomrobot]

If you can learn the CAGED system of playing guitar, it'll really serve you well. Learn your basic shapes and then you can play any chord anywhere on the neck. I self taught myself for about 10 years and then took lessons for 2 years. My teacher showed me CAGED and I advanced more in the 2 than in the previous 10.

In other news- my buddy is really trying to sell me on his Cobra 72M. I'm trying to learn what I can about it to see if it would suite me or not. Any additional thoughts, pros/cons? It does have the 36S setup so I believe that means I can make up and run cable/slats however far I want from the module to create different stations. I have concerns that 72 is a lot for a beginner and at $750 plus $300 for the controller, is there a cheaper option that I should learn on or just go all in. I am looking into the Firelinx as well but just thinking that if he and his friends all have Cobra, then I can learn from and borrow from them if needed.

[PyroFL]

I’ve seen a lot of guys start off with 36M to get there feet wet and build as they go, but I’ve also seen guys start off with a 72M.

I personally like the 72M but a lot of guys don’t like them as it can limit there setup and they rather have 18M or 36M so they can move the modules and setup easier. I know some guys that only buy 18m and have 10+

The pros of having one unit is you only have one for storage and don’t have to worry about 4 18m cons is you will need slate cables and slates that will cost you more money or you will have to get the 15’ long MJG and fire off upto 72 fireworks in a 15’ radius … which isn’t likely

When I first got in I ordered 2 72m and 2 36m all at the same time.

If I was to change anything I would had started off with more 36m and built up until I got to where I needed a 72m

[ssmith512]

Buy the 72M now. It isn't "too much" for a beginner. Cobra is easy to learn and use, and once you use it , you will be hooked and you will want more cues. You can NEVER have too many cues!! :cool:

For that price, it is a GREAT way to get into pyromusical's in my opinion.

[PYRODAN]

If you are going to do comet runs or use a lot of single shot effects, you will need a lot of cues..........

[randomrobot]

So I'm learning a lot but another real beginner question, when I see your shows and your finales are just comple chaos, what is going on? It looks like some of you are setting off a thousand shots in just a few seconds. Are those cakes or racks? If they're cakes, what kind of cakes are you using? If they're racks, again, how? Sometimes it looks like a giant sparkler going off. Is there a thread somewhere just on how to do a finale properly?

[Jay_]

I use cakes with at least 3 positions going off at the same time. At the very end of my show, I had 6 flights of canister shells (on 3 positions) going up in 1 second intervals. The reason behind that is that I wanted to try to be in control of when the show ended, and not rely on the internal fuse of the cakes to all end at the same time. It almost worked, If I had used 8 flights it probably would have ended crisply like I wanted it to.

You also want to overlap your effects. At the 13:26 mark in my show, I have 16 cakes all in the air at the same time. I didn't start them all at 13:26, but that's when I started the last of them.

Finales are expensive too. For example, at 12:07, I hit $1000 worth of cakes at one time all of the same cue. Those cakes last 85 seconds. The other 13 cakes I spoke of all come in after those 3 start and add another several hundred bucks.

[Birdman]

It's going to vary but I would say most are using some combination of cakes and shells. A lot is going to depend on you and your particular situation. In my case the shoot site dictates a lot of what I can or can't do. A lot is also going to depend on how much work, planning and money you want to put into it. My suggestion is that if you see something you like in a show, just ask that person how they did it. Most of us are more than willing to share scripts, product lists, techniques etc.

Yesterday I added subtitles to my show video that display the product(s) being fired. You might want to watch it to get an idea of how to compose a basic show.

https://vimeo.com/730636131

[randomrobot]

Thanks Jay, your show was amazing. Can you give me an idea of what types of cakes you're using at the end and another dumb question, how many is a flight of shells?

I always overlap cakes with my finale rack but it never looks that good. Of course your finale sounds like my entire budget but I've also only got space for one position. This thread has got me thinking about how to get more out of each cake just having control over the whole show seems like you can more bang for your buck, literally. I'm about 95% sure I'm gonna to invest and buy a firing system.

[Jay_]

Thank you randomrobot, appreciate it

I'm just calling them flights for lack of a better term. I was just shooting canister shells from 3 positions (should have been 5, but wont go there) that all went up on the same cue at the same time.

All I was trying to accomplish was to shoot a timed event that I could have control over when the sky went dark at the end. Cakes will typically either shoot longer or shorter than you want them to because of variances in the internal fuse.

Below is what that looks like in your script.

EVENT_TIME CHANNEL CUE DESCRIPTION DURATION PRE_FIRE CUSTOM_COLUMNS
13:28.55 7 15 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:29.55 7 16 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:30.55 7 17 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:31.55 7 18 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:32.55 10 15 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:33.55 10 16 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:34.55 10 17 Night Gallery 2s 0
13:35.55 10 18 Night Gallery 2s 0

As far as cakes, honestly anything will work. I like to use some of the biggest/baddest/loudest ones that I have in the finale. Cases of 200g cakes are also another really good way to light it up.
No harm in shooting multiple cakes at once in a single position show. If you have the overhead clearance to angle them 20-45* away from each other they look really good and can give the appearance of a multi station show.

[Jay_]

Yesterday I added subtitles to my show video that display the product(s) being fired. You might want to watch it to get an idea of how to compose a basic show.

https://vimeo.com/730636131

That is the coolest thing that I have seen in a long time. Awesome! I think I may try to do the same thing.

[randomrobot]

You guys are awesome. This is perfect. Can't wait to start upping my show. Next year is going to be epic.

[Jay_]

Yesterday I added subtitles to my show video that display the product(s) being fired. You might want to watch it to get an idea of how to compose a basic show.

https://vimeo.com/730636131

Well I started on mine, got a little bit into the beginning of the 2nd song and now worn out. Kudos to you on doing this. Man that's a lot of editing.

[Birdman]

No harm in shooting multiple cakes at once in a single position show. If you have the overhead clearance to angle them 20-45* away from each other they look really good and can give the appearance of a multi station show.

I think I'll be able to angle more cakes next year and maybe even use a fan rack for shells. A few trees have been cut down that made this difficult to do in years past. There's still one pesky tree near the shoreline. If the water level is low I can place cakes further out beyond that tree but this year the water was higher so I had less shoreline to work with. The other issue is that any shoreline exposed when water is down is very rocky and hard enough to find level surfaces. One or two days of rain and I can lose a couple of feet of space. Beyond the shoreline is grass but it's on a slight incline. This is great as any cakes or racks placed there are perfectly angled over the lake but just a few feet back on the other side of the slope cakes or racks would be angled away from the lake and fire into a treeline. You can kind of see this in my setup video. It's a very challenging site. Besides being 6 hours from my home and difficult to access, I have these other random and often dynamic issues to overcome. I've even given up diagramming my layout because I'm always having to make adjustments on the fly. If I lived at or even near the site and had a workshop or even some decently sized storage space it would be easier to overcome some of these issues. Unfortunately I only have about a day to prep everything in the spring and then a day or two over the 4th for setup and everything else. I learned a lesson last year when I took the time to get my slices racked on a board for easy setup. Well a couple of big rocks and that pesky tree made it impossible to to find a level place to put it. I ended up having to spend over an hour to pile rocks and sand to level an area out on the shoreline for it.


Well I started on mine, got a little bit into the beginning of the 2nd song and now worn out. Kudos to you on doing this. Man that's a lot of editing.

Took me a few hours to do my show which is lot smaller than yours so I can only imagine the time it's going to take you. I'm excited to see it when it's done. I think it's so much better than others trying to visualize a script. It's a rather selfless endeavor but hopefully will be appreciated by others.

[cduesman]

Yesterday I added subtitles to my show video that display the product(s) being fired. You might want to watch it to get an idea of how to compose a basic show.

https://vimeo.com/730636131

Nice. I always find it interesting to see/know what product is being used in a show.

I do the subtitles with my shows as well. I have a little program that will take a cobra or finale script and create the subtitles for you. I used to have an automated email bot that would proccess your script and send it back to you, but google email keeps changing it's email interface so I haven't fixed it since the last time they broke it. If someone wants to email a script, I can generate the subtitles file. I have more info at http://pyro.duesman.net/subtitle (It's all free stuff.)

Chris

[randomrobot]

Can't be said enough and the more you know what product is available the easier and more fun scripting becomes. But then you need to figure out how to wire, fuse and position your product to get it to fire the way you envision.

Your scripted show was great for this. It was really cool to see how you split up Paparazzi and now I'm on the search for those fx mines shells. Didn't know that was a thing. I appreciate the time you took to edit that vid and look forward to seeing more shows scripted out.

[Engineer Cat]

Nice. I always find it interesting to see/know what product is being used in a show.

I do the subtitles with my shows as well. I have a little program that will take a cobra or finale script and create the subtitles for you. I used to have an automated email bot that would proccess your script and send it back to you, but google email keeps changing it's email interface so I haven't fixed it since the last time they broke it. If someone wants to email a script, I can generate the subtitles file. I have more info at http://pyro.duesman.net/subtitle (It's all free stuff.)

Chris

I might have to try this out and send you my script. Very cool.

[Birdman]

Your scripted show was great for this. It was really cool to see how you split up Paparazzi and now I'm on the search for those fx mines shells. Didn't know that was a thing. I appreciate the time you took to edit that vid and look forward to seeing more shows scripted out.

I was surprised to find those shells. Last year I used AOP single shot mines and assumed that was the only option. The FX shells I just poked and wired them in the bottom like you would any other shell. Hoping these remain available and would love to see comet shells too. Wish these sort of effects were more widely available but I assume most consumers are looking for "the big stuff" and the others just assume use AOP. I still believe there could be market for a whole FX line complete with fan cakes with individually fused or ported slices.

Funny thing about that Paparazzi cake. I only scripted 6 of the 7 slices. Forgot I had one left until setup so I just parallel wired into the same cue that fired my finale racks.

[randomrobot]

I've been looking online but not finding them anywhere close. Can I ask where you picked them up?

[Birdman]

I've been looking online but not finding them anywhere close. Can I ask where you picked them up?

AWF (https://americanwholesalefireworks.com) - americanwholesalefireworks.com

They are currently out of stock.

[PyroWalker]

I was surprised to find those shells. Last year I used AOP single shot mines and assumed that was the only option. The FX shells I just poked and wired them in the bottom like you would any other shell. Hoping these remain available and would love to see comet shells too. Wish these sort of effects were more widely available but I assume most consumers are looking for "the big stuff" and the others just assume use AOP. I still believe there could be market for a whole FX line complete with fan cakes with individually fused or ported slices.

Funny thing about that Paparazzi cake. I only scripted 6 of the 7 slices. Forgot I had one left until setup so I just parallel wired into the same cue that fired my finale racks.

Most of my comet and mines have been shells from superior fireworks. I am not sure if they have them in stock, but I have never been able to get my hands on AOP 1 shots, so I have always used these shells with adjustable racks.

[Birdman]

Most of my comet and mines have been shells from superior fireworks. I am not sure if they have them in stock, but I have never been able to get my hands on AOP 1 shots, so I have always used these shells with adjustable racks.

Good to know they are out there!

[Jay_]

I think I'll be able to angle more cakes next year and maybe even use a fan rack for shells. A few trees have been cut down that made this difficult to do in years past. There's still one pesky tree near the shoreline. If the water level is low I can place cakes further out beyond that tree but this year the water was higher so I had less shoreline to work with. The other issue is that any shoreline exposed when water is down is very rocky and hard enough to find level surfaces. One or two days of rain and I can lose a couple of feet of space. Beyond the shoreline is grass but it's on a slight incline. This is great as any cakes or racks placed there are perfectly angled over the lake but just a few feet back on the other side of the slope cakes or racks would be angled away from the lake and fire into a treeline. You can kind of see this in my setup video. It's a very challenging site. Besides being 6 hours from my home and difficult to access, I have these other random and often dynamic issues to overcome. I've even given up diagramming my layout because I'm always having to make adjustments on the fly. If I lived at or even near the site and had a workshop or even some decently sized storage space it would be easier to overcome some of these issues. Unfortunately I only have about a day to prep everything in the spring and then a day or two over the 4th for setup and everything else. I learned a lesson last year when I took the time to get my slices racked on a board for easy setup. Well a couple of big rocks and that pesky tree made it impossible to to find a level place to put it. I ended up having to spend over an hour to pile rocks and sand to level an area out on the shoreline for it.

Wow man, I thought that I had some challenges packing all of my stuff 16 miles. 6 hours? Wow...I would be stressed to the max. Its amazing that you can pull it off.


Took me a few hours to do my show which is lot smaller than yours so I can only imagine the time it's going to take you. I'm excited to see it when it's done. I think it's so much better than others trying to visualize a script. It's a rather selfless endeavor but hopefully will be appreciated by others.

I give up on mine. I got tired of messing with it on windows video editor, and then I tried to do it as closed captions like Chris posted below. I am out of patience trying to make it work manually.

[Jay_]

Nice. I always find it interesting to see/know what product is being used in a show.

I do the subtitles with my shows as well. I have a little program that will take a cobra or finale script and create the subtitles for you. I used to have an automated email bot that would proccess your script and send it back to you, but google email keeps changing it's email interface so I haven't fixed it since the last time they broke it. If someone wants to email a script, I can generate the subtitles file. I have more info at http://pyro.duesman.net/subtitle (It's all free stuff.)

Chris

Sent your way. Thank you very much for the offer!