Fusing a rack like a cake

[Engineer Cat]

So recently I came across a youtube video from a popular youtuber from the Midwest who did a video on testing different fuse speeds on a rack wired like a cake. What he did was drill two holes just above the plug in his mortars. Added fuse linking each one then added hot glue to each entry and exit point to keep the fuse from getting blown out without being ignited. Once that's all set he removes the fuse and lift charge from the cans and dumps the lift charge in the bottom of the mortar and then drops the can in on top of the lift charge. I had questioned how long will the mortars last being they will have a fuse burning through them when setup like this figuring the holes eventually get bigger over time and could cause an issue. He replied that they should last as long as they normally would if used in the regular way. I'm not so sure about that so I figured I would see if anyone here as tried this and what their opinion is on it.

The reason I'm asking is because I normally replace the fuses on the cans with gray quick fuse so once the cue is triggered there's almost no delay in sending it airborne. (I only have 24 cues so cans are fused together to one initiator to save cues) However I end up using a lot of gray fuse when doing this. Fusing the rack like a cake would save me over a foot of fuse per mortar.

Here's a screenshot of what he's doing and a video link in case anyone wants to see this for themselves.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6170&stc=1


https://youtu.be/bU_BPnz--Zg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU_BPnz--Zg

[mattbhm]

Definitely interested in this as well. I would be worried about pouring the lift charge down the tube myself, but I am likely overly paranoid. If it worked well it would definitely be a more reliable way to fire a rack when needed.

[Birdman]

I poke shells where I want more accurate timing and even that doesn't guarantee a perfectly timed break. I don't see a need to replace the green visco with grey quick fuse. Does it really improve accuracy that much? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to accomplish. In my experience I'm usually trying to slow down fused racks and adding faster fuse is not going to help accomplish this. I don't see what advantage there is in doing all that additional work when you should be able to get similar timing accuracy just fusing from the top to the shell's green visco. Again, maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong but once the first shell fires does the timing of the shells get effected by the slower fuse? I say no or at least nothing that noticeable. If I fuse a MCR with grey quick fuse I can rip through 25 shells in seconds.

[PyroFL]

As for drilling into a DR11 a few things. First, It’s a cool idea but do you have all the time to do all that extra work if your doing it, how many do you have to do, is it worth it?

I know it takes me 36-38 man hours to fuse up 500 mortars and adding another 8-10 hours wouldn’t be worth it to me personally. I believe changing the fusing on my last 50-100 will give me more control and will only add an extra hour tops.

Next if your going for a certain effect and not doing a final I think it’s a great idea and don’t believe it would shorten the life of the tube by much and you would probably replace the plug before the tub would go bad.

After watching the video I don’t think I will try it out. I live in Florida and the humidity would kill the left charge.

I’ve switched away from white/grey fuse last year after TampaRick I were taking about switching our shows away from all full Skypuke for the final.

After seeing his video from last year and looking at my show I will not be going back to all 1/4 sec fuse again.

That said, I will be fusing my last 50 to 100 of 500 with some other timed fusing other then the green (anyone’s guess timing), so I can have better timing and get away from the stragglers that pop off after the show is over.

[displayfireworks1]

I would be curious how the old PyroU (pyro police) gang responds towards Cody and his videos. Although he doesn’t do many modifications that I have seen. I think this is one of those fun experimental things to try but I’m not sure it is a short cut to purchasing additional ques for your firing system. I’m feeling if you do this repeatedly you are eventually going to blow a mortar and the rack apart. Unless timing is critical, I would just fast fuse the rack on top and leave the shells unaltered.
If anyone has seen the choices available in Articles of Pyrotechnic products, this is what Cody is trying to create. Of course if one does not have the funding or certifications to purchase AP products you need to get creative or just be satisfied with fast fusing the top of the rack and fuse.

[Engineer Cat]

I'm certainty not doing anything precise. I'm flying under the radar until I get shut down or we finish without LE interaction. No where close to what some you guys in Florida and Texas do. But I do try to do quasi pyromusicals. Mostly it's cakes timed out to the best section of the music it fits into with random shells filling in blanks spots. So for those spots I'm just trying to figure out the easiest way to time this.

Dave did answer the original questions which was can these mortars last being drilled out like this. I agree it would be best to just fuse from the top and not have to deal with other issues from doing this. Birdman had a good point, if i know how long the stock fuse burns, why bother, just add that timing to the script.

Although I do have my AOP it just didn't make sense cost wise to make that purchase right now especially being I only have 24 cues to play with. So I must get creative. ;)



If anyone has seen the choices available in Articles of Pyrotechnic products, this is what Cody is trying to create. Of course if one does not have the funding or certifications to purchase AP products you need to get creative or just be satisfied with fast fusing the top of the rack and fuse.

[PyroFL]

Cheap and safe way to add what your looking to do is buy a sequencer.

You can chain up to 99 together or you could expand each cue you have by 13 each.

You can set it up for step, timed or all fire for only $80.

That?s only 6.15 per cue

[upNdown]

It's a fun idea, and I can't think of any reason why it should affect the safety or the lift. (in a vacuum - there are also a dozen ways where this could go wrong)
That said, I can't see how cutting all those short fuses and hot-gluing each little piece into each tube, then cutting the bottom off each shell is ever going to be an efficient way to do things. But then again, neither is poking shells.
All told, if we're thinking about shell timing, it's an interesting idea or jumping-off point. But nobody should ever take guidance from Cody B - his enthusiasm is great for the hobby, and I'm always happy to listen to different thoughts and opinions, but I've watched a lot of his videos and he's not the brightest bulb.

[Salutecake]

You basically said that when you use the the Grey fuse there is almost no delay in sending it airborne. So the extra time threading the fuse in and out, and material, (glue and glue gun) would not be worth saving a few bucks on fuse, I'm going with Birdman and PyroFL responses.

[BMoore]

You had better get foil over each mortar individually. Just one spark from an adjacent mortar is going to send a shell because of the exposed BP. Seems like a huge waste of time and effort to me. Cut your shell leaders equal and be consistent with your fuse overlap when fusing up top and you can get the same result. If you need precise timing you need a firing system.

[displayfireworks1]

As far as YouTube, Cody picked a good way to make videos. It is basically, here is what I purchased, here is what it looks like, and here is what it looks like when I shoot it. Then monetize the video.
Another thing to consider is that fast fuse particularly the gray fuse is prone to side ignition.

[Birdman]

Below is a video I made of 2 of my finales. It starts with a picture of the rack I use in the first video. The finale actually consists of 1 MCR (pictured) and 2 10-shot racks. The first 20 tubes are fused with grey quick fuse to the shells green fuse. I always use scotch tape to completely wrap my chain of fuse as you can see in the picture. The last row is series wired as I wanted them fired simultaneous (Note: only 4 of the wired shells fired because the circuit was broken before the last shell could fire due to a slight delay). I used a step script so I could ensure the final volley of wired shells fired after the first was complete. The 10-shot racks were fused/wire similarly.

The second finale in the video is 2 MCR's. The first was fused with slower fuse (I forget what speed) and the second was fused with grey quick fuse. I should have used slower fuse or had more spacing for more delay between each shell because it fired a tad faster then I would have liked. That first MCR was fused to the second which, IIRC, was fused completely with grey quick fuse.

I don't see where the results are much different between the way I fused and the "bottom method". My son actually fused most of the shells in the second finale after I gave him a brief tutorial on technique and safety. As Cody B writes on YouTube "...inconsistency lies within the time-fuse built into the shell itself". So it would be rare to have your breaks timed in sequence with your fuse/lifts because of the inconsistency in the time fuse in each shell. This is why even poking cans doesn't always yield perfectly times results. My main point is that as far as I can see the green shell fuse doesn't really slow things down any beyond the first shell to fire. All of the other shells are going to fire just as fast as your chain fuse. This is why I see no need to replace the fuse on the shell unless you want to get near instant fire results similar to wiring directly into the lift charge.

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/695728028

I watch Cody B's videos from time to time but I agree nobody should ever take guidance from Cody B. I don't always practice what I'd preach to others but I at least understand any risks I do take. I personally don't care what risks people want to take and don't like people calling others out when they don't "follow the book". But I think when you're influencing people on social media you need to be extra mindful that your willingness to take risks doesn't come across as advocating doing so or as being proper procedure. For example, in one of his videos he lights damaged fireworks with a torch. My first thought is why is he hand lighting these? If he wanted to inform or even entertain his audience he could have at least fired these remotely to show he respected the risk they posed.

BTW this entire post was more about doing something to keep my mind off the fact we have to put our cat down today then anything else.

[Engineer Cat]

BTW this entire post was more about doing something to keep my mind off the fact we have to put our cat down today then anything else.

:( I've very sorry to hear that. It's really tough when you lose a pet especially when you have to make that call to put them down.


I completely agree with everyone's point about Cody. I rely on all you guys here for legitimate knowledge. I've learned the most from watching Dave's videos and reading and posting questions here which is why I posted about it. I will continue to fuse from the top and leave the green fuse on the cans and just adjust the timing for it in the script if I don't go directly to the lift charge with the initiators. Surly that would take the least amount of time to do. My shows are not very long either so it doesn't take to much time getting things wired up. This year it's mostly cakes with just a handful of cans to fill in dark spots. Poking cakes goes fairly quickly but it would be great if other manufactures started adding E ports to their 1.4 cakes like Dave.

Those that have mentioned using a sequencer or a firing system, I do use a Firelinx and script the show to music. Sorta. lol

[esgrillo]

I would be curious how the old PyroU (pyro police) gang responds towards Cody and his videos. Although he doesn?t do many modifications that I have seen.....

He gets hammered pretty hard in other forums. When I saw him light water cakes in one of his videos, on land, in a neighborhood, I thought is was very unsafe and foolish. We also all have our opinion about the racks he uses but that subject could fill a book on its' own lol.

[schmidlapp]

All criticism aside of "the kid", I think it may be a good idea for limited or special effects.
I plan on building a 7 shot fan rack using this technique. I'm going to use identical canister shells. Once its built even if the drilled dr11 tubes last only a half dozen shots before the holes enlarge they can be inspected and replaced if needed. The effects can be varied based on the cans that are available.
You could load anything from comets to nishiki
To boom if available.

[esgrillo]

All criticism aside of "the kid", I think it may be a good idea for limited or special effects.
I plan on building a 7 shot fan rack using this technique. I'm going to use identical canister shells. Once its built even if the drilled dr11 tubes last only a half dozen shots before the holes enlarge they can be inspected and replaced if needed. The effects can be varied based on the cans that are available. You could load anything from comets to nishiki To boom if available.

I made a 7 shot fan for the Dominator preloaded 1.4pro shells with some scrap wood a couple years ago. Makes a real good super wide effect. Must have been 400ft wide. May be an option for you. I wired them all in series so it was just one cue on the cobra and they go off precisely at the same time if that is how you want them wired.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6172&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6173&stc=1

[jdels]

I made a 7 shot fan for the Dominator preloaded 1.4pro shells with some scrap wood a couple years ago. Makes a real good super wide effect. Must have been 400ft wide. May be an option for you. I wired them all in series so it was just one cue on the cobra and they go off precisely at the same time if that is how you want them wired.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6172&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6173&stc=1

Similar here. Loads easy and great effect.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6174&stc=1

[Icooclast]

Similar here. Loads easy and great effect.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6174&stc=1

i think both racks are cool. but the second one (12 shot) is my favorite, how much did each one cost in materials, guys?

[PyroFL]

Another option that I got from one of Ed?s video?s is a all aluminum adjustable racks. The fingers are fully adjustable one by one ... they do have some limitations and plus/minuses

I ended up building Several racks myself and saved a lot of money!

You will have to goto his YouTube channel to watch it as I am not sure if it is permissible to name the company here on the chat where he got them.

My shoot site is on a 14-18? degree hill so wood racks would be to heavy for me.

I really like the ones above and wish I could use them ... great scram wood ideas!

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6175&stc=1

[Salutecake]

Hey PyroFL, just kidding but can't resist, a 14 - 18 degree hill in Florida?

[PyroFL]

Ya ya ya salutecake

Anything in FL over 3 feet high is called a hill. http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6176&stc=1

[jdels]

Materials were essentially free, leftovers from other projects. Less than a quarter sheet of 1/2 osb and maybe a square foot of 3/4 plywood.

[Salutecake]

I've seen pics of your hill before. Anyway in the pic above I see you have some Dominator(?) water cakes. I live on a lake and I have to say they are a very big hit! The first time I used them and they shot out, I heard a neighbor say, oh there goes a dud, but when they started to illuminate, all the Oh's turned to Ah's. I also use 1.3 water cakes more of a variety of effects.

[Birdman]

I've seen pics of your hill before. Anyway in the pic above I see you have some Dominator(?) water cakes. I live on a lake and I have to say they are a very big hit! The first time I used them and they shot out, I heard a neighbor say, oh there goes a dud, but when they started to illuminate, all the Oh's turned to Ah's. I also use 1.3 water cakes more of a variety of effects.

They were a huge hit with my audience too. Everyone is disappointed there won't be any in this year's show.

[PyroFL]

Saultecake

I tried and tried to find some this year but no luck! They where such a huge success last year and the number one thing people requested to do again this year. (Same here BIrdman)

To funny about "those are duds" the same thing happen to us, my brother and I just looked at each other and kind of laughed, wait for it-wait for it

Would love to add them to my show this year .. any in your garage I'll swing by and pick up a few ... Joking ... well kind of

I know its a little early for 2023 but am already working on it, hoping to fill the pond next year with water cakes but we will see and depends if I do all the gas mines am looking to do on barges. Still looking for someone that's done them before that can give me some tips to help me cut down all my testing at $4.25 p/g

Next year theme is "Fire in the Sky"

[Salutecake]

PyroFL and Birdman I have 4 Dominator cakes leftover and I am hoping to get a couple of 1.3 water cakes that pop up into the air. Believe it or not I also came across a case of Tanerite salute cakes - I think 8 100 shot cakes. They might be the last in the world, lol.

[PyroFL]

Salecake

Your a lucky man. I was looking to get the popup ones too. If you end up confirm you can get them please let me know. I don't need to know who your getting them from but I would be interested a case up to 4 cases

Money on standby

[Salutecake]

So PyroFl a few years back my son and I tested a 4" and 6" fuel mine. My neighbor volunteered his old small wooden boat. So the 4" fit nicely on the back seat of the boat but the 6" went on the floor. We pushed the boat out waited till it got out there, shot off the 4" with no issue, then set the 6" off and that fired but was not right. So we were wondering if we had the mix wrong or -- then we noticed that the boat was sinking. So we brought the boat in, found out the the 6" when ignited pushed down on the floor boards so hard that it popped one loose. Anyway, after that experience, they go on our docks made of pt 2x6, but also put probably a 2'x3' and then on top of that a 2'x2' piece of 3/4 plywood then the 2 mines on top of that, also I drilled 2 holes in the base of the fuel mines to secure the to the plywood. So far that works and is probably an overkill but -- Oh, my neighbors boat wasn't really damaged, we had to tap the board back into place and it was Ok, my neighbor wasn't really mad but you could tell not pleased. But he volunteered his boat knowing that 2 containers filled with black powder and gas were being ignited on his boat as an experiment soooo?