Help with renewal Form

[Salutecake]

Section C question 2.

I have reviewed my latest Notice of Clearance?(NOC), dated ______ , and ALL the listed responsible persons (RPs) and employee possessors (EPs) are correct - no
changes or updates are needed. If the "NOC" is NOT accurate and needs to be updated, please return a copy of the latest NOC with this renewal application and include a statement
showing the nature of the inaccurate or incomplete information. All CURRENT and NEW employee possessors MUST complete ATF Form 5400.28. Employee Possessor D D Questionnaire. You must complete A TF 5400.28 Employee Possessor Questionnaire, for ALL EPs that are active on your FEL, both CURRENT and NEW EPs. If you need to ADD
RPs, fingerprints and photos are required for EACH additional RP, along with their identifying information.

So I am just a hobbyist, no business, and no employees, for Responsible Persons I listed myself on the form and I have no others so that is done. In the first sentence above "I have reviewed my latest Notice of Clearance?(NOC), dated ______ ,"
I believe they are talking about any Employer Possessors I might employ, but I do not have any, although I am listed as an Employee Possessor for some Clubs and other companies that I have worked for. So would I just answer that like - N/A?

If that is Not correct, What is my latest Notice of Clearance because I have not received one ever, and a NOC was not included with the renewal forms as was the Responsible person List.

Thanks for any help.

[displayfireworks1]

If you are the same person that emailed with this question. I thought I answered it. You are going to get 50 different answers asking these questions on the forums. And out of the 50 ,half of them will be wrong. Then everyone is going type 50 paragraphs to defend their positions. It causes me further confusion in the future. I spend a lot of time disproving what many profess to be true about obtaining the and now renewing the ATF fireworks license. You are already ATF licensed, this renewal is actually relatively simple. I usually do not tell anyone to call the ATF for anything, however at this point I suggest to find the local office near you and call them and ask the question. If you are not in business and have no employees you do not need to be concerned about updating clearances on employee's. The application process is not geared to advanced hobbyist and thus the application process does not reflect it.
On a side not about clearing up what is needed for the ATF license. I am being informed an ATF Inspector is telling an applicant he is not going to proceed with his application because he does not have the state shooter certificate. This is in a state where another ATF Inspector most likely out of the same office is proceeding with applicants that do not have the state shooter certificate. I'm not going to name the state. He is persuading the applicant to sign the voluntary withdraw the application form. So even some of the ATF Inspectors are not even sure how all of this works for advanced hobbyist. For years now I spend a great deal of time clearing up this confusion. No matter what state you live in, this is a universal Federal procedure. I usually end my ATF license class with a practice scenario of me acting like and ATF Inspector attempting to persuade a few people in the class to withdraw their application. It occurs that frequently I added into the classes.

[Salutecake]

I am not the same person so I guess it's best to call the helpline of the ATF, and find out what is acceptable.

[displayfireworks1]

That is strange because it is the exact same question. Since I can not rule out the ATF may have started something new, can you please scan and email those documents to me. You name will be kept confidential or you can redact your name. My email is pyrotalk at gmail.com

[Salutecake]

Give me a few moments.

[displayfireworks1]

Thanks for sending me the forums you received. This renewal does look like something new. For some reason they are adding in questions that include the Type 60 in with the Type 54. On the Type 60 they want to know how many coupons are remaining. There are provisions for being out of business and a few other new items. Interesting, I suspect there may have been fraudulent use of the coupons somewhere. Yet another reason to just go with the Type 54 and three years. I also see they added the phone number for the Martinsburg West Virginia main headquarters or whatever it is called. If that same woman is still the one in charge of Type 54’s she is extremely knowledgeable and helpful. For those new, all ATF Fireworks applications get sent to Oregon and then make their way to Martinsburg. From there they get assigned to your local ATF office. The Martinsburg office checks for completion of the key elements before it goes to your regional area. On second thought you do not need to call the ATF.

On Your question on Section C Question #2. The answer is NO to the right. In the “Dated” section I would write in “No Employees”. From what you said. You are the sole reasonable person with no employee’s. Question #3 If you have contingency you need to add a new contingency plan Question #4 is the contingency the same as last year? Yes or No? This assumes you do not have a magazine. In the section above add all of your phone numbers and email address. Remember the ATF is going to use those day and time frames you write in to interview you. Do not rule out they may just show up without calling to schedule the interview. Once your check is cashed and you hear someone knocking at your door it could be them. Normally I do not answer someone knocking at my door unless they have a pizza or subpoena in their hand. But I will answer it during an ATF renewal phase. LOL

[BMoore]

You should have received a Notice of Clearance with your original license. I've received a new one with every renewal even I was the only responsible person (no employees). For question C #2, I put in the date of the last Notice of Clearnace and checked "Yes" since there were no changes needed. Answering this way caused no issues with the renewal.

[Arclight]

They did issue that notice a while back that the "Employee Clearance" questionnaire was being changed. Were those new questions about medical history release, over 21, etc on this one?

[Mattp]

it is strange that you NEVER received one.. for me it came in the mail about a month after my permit.. both originally and after renewal

[displayfireworks1]

Think about this, you are going to give them the date of the clearance you received three years ago from the last time you renewed your license and use that date of clearance to renew this time. This is a clearance letter you received AFTER you first received the license. From what I know about the display business, they should always be running a clearance on all new employee possessors after they work their first display. What a mess this entire ATF license renewal has apparently become. Now they want you to keep track of the dates of clearances and write it in.
That entire application and now the renewal process is geared to a business application with a magazine and employees. There is no provision for an advanced fireworks hobbyist. That does not stop us, we can adjust the application and the renewal process. Most people don't realize this Type 54 license is a Shall Issue license. They can't arbitrarily just deny you. This is why they try to persuade YOU to withdraw the application. This new renewal form is just one more thing we are going to get through. And it's not going to be that hard.
The more I think about this, the ATF is indirectly pushing the occasional user of 1.3 fireworks into the Type 60 Limited intrastate fireworks permit. This Type 60 was something they claimed they were going to eliminate. If you read between the lines apparently this Type 60 and all that rip a coupon BS developed into a problem. This is why they are asking the renewal applicant on this renewal, how many of the six coupons they have left. Shouldn't they know how many you have left? Now they want you to tell them how many coupons you have left and also tell them the dates you cleared all of your employees. When something goes wrong they are going to blame you and not their poor record keeping and auditing.
Years back I had an ATF Inspector confidentially tell me, those that have an ATF license to deal in firearms will lose their license for one reason or another. Some will have a copy of their original firearms license and use that to keep on dealing in firearms. I do not believe this entire firearms and explosive regulatory agencies are operating at the level of efficiency we believe them to be.

[Salutecake]

Ok so I did find a Notice of Clearance form I must have received some time ago with my original license. And now I agree with BMoore, I'm going to answer yes and put that date in. I never new I had one of those but it was tucked away with my original license. Looking at the Notice of Clearance form it makes sense to what BMoore says to do.

I'm going with it and sending it in. If/when it comes back right or wrong I will repost here.

Thanks for all of the input!!!

[BMoore]

Ok so I did find a Notice of Clearance form I must have received some time ago with my original license. And now I agree with BMoore, I'm going to answer yes and put that date in. I never new I had one of those but it was tucked away with my original license. Looking at the Notice of Clearance form it makes sense to what BMoore says to do.

I'm going with it and sending it in. If/when it comes back right or wrong I will repost here.

Thanks for all of the input!!!

Glad you found it and don't lose it! When I signed up to be an shooter with a display company the state required their own FBI background check. My Notice of Clearance allowed the state to waive the process which got me shooting shows faster and allowed me to avoid the fingerprinting process. In that particular instance my actual type-54 was meaningless, but the Notice of Clearance saved me all sorts of time and frustrations.

[displayfireworks1]

Ok so I did find a Notice of Clearance form I must have received some time ago with my original license. And now I agree with BMoore, I'm going to answer yes and put that date in. I never new I had one of those but it was tucked away with my original license. Looking at the Notice of Clearance form it makes sense to what BMoore says to do.

I'm going with it and sending it in. If/when it comes back right or wrong I will repost here.

Thanks for all of the input!!!

Curious what is the date on the clearance notice?

[Salutecake]

So, I just put all that stuff away but the date of the NOC was issued around the the 25th of May about a week before my June 1, license date.

[displayfireworks1]

What year is the date. ???

[Salutecake]

2019 - Thinking back back, it must have came in the same packet with my license. I don't remember it being a separate entity, but I could be wrong.

[BMoore]

2019 - Thinking back back, it must have came in the same packet with my license. I don't remember it being a separate entity, but I could be wrong.

Yes, it would have been in the packet with your license. In my situation I was just like you on my last renewal. I had no employees so I was the only one on the Notice of Clearance and the last one I received was with my prior license. After my last renewal I added an employee possessor and received a new Notice of Clearance. Whenever my next renewal comes up I have to make sure I'm using the date and attesting to that more recent notice. Still not that difficult for most of us hobbyists, but would definitely be a PIA for someone regularly adding/removing employee possessors. Thinking about it now, it sure seems like it would make a lot more sense if the ATF just provided a copy of the Notice of Clearance with the renewal application and simply asked you to verify the enclosed form.

[displayfireworks1]

2019 - Thinking back back, it must have came in the same packet with my license. I don't remember it being a separate entity, but I could be wrong.

2019 is what I though, thanks for checking. This is what does not make any sense to me for us as hobbyist. At the time of renewal they want the date of your Notice of Clearance. That document for us is three years old. You can commit a lot of crimes in three years. There are going probably run our name again anyway. This seems like something for a display company that has multiple shooters and helpers. I believe many display companies run an entire list of shooters at one time to keep track of it easier. Either way it seems like no big deal. Now if the ATF tries to deny a renewal because someone can not find the NOC from three ago, then it becomes an issue.
On a side note , I remember during my last interview they ask some closing questions most likely supplied to them from the higher ups. Asking if I had any security cams. I suspect when enough license/magazine holders answer "Yes" to that question they will mandate that type of security for magazines.

[Salutecake]

I think that security cam question is standard now. They asked me 3 years ago and also at my renewal interview, and I know they asked my son cause I was there when he said yes and then more questions are asked, like are they motion activated and such, and that is from agents coming out of different offices. All done on a laptop.

[Arclight]

I think that security cam question is standard now. They asked me 3 years ago and also at my renewal interview, and I know they asked my son cause I was there when he said yes and then more questions are asked, like are they motion activated and such, and that is from agents coming out of different offices. All done on a laptop.

When I had my inspection, I was told that they have new software that generates the questions for them, based on previous answers/etc.

[Salutecake]

well I'm not sure if it is just new software or a whole new way. 3 years ago the agent came to my house and said this was new, and it was live or real time, cause they had to log in and go through this whole procedure, questions and pictures of your records and stuff. I don't know what they did before 3 years ago, but at my review a few months ago I had to go through the same thing. I'm not a high volume shooter and it still took hours to get through the process.

[displayfireworks1]

This is just my opinion on things. Even the ATF Inspectors and the distributors of 1.3 fireworks will tell you , every time they turn around "They" (AKA ATF Washington DC ) will tell us something different all the time. In case you haven't noticed over the years you most likely are getting a different inspector to interview you each time you renew your license. I believe it may be called something along the lines of and I paraphrase here, (The ever changing face of the ATF). This is why I sometimes get reports from renewal applicant telling me the Inspector told him "Next time do this or that etc. " Apparently the Inspectors have to protect themselves from each-other. So in three years when the next new Inspector comes to interview you they can't say "Didn't they other guy tell you to do this or that for next time"?
If you look historically at the ATF and the "Directors" It has been a few years since I double check this. They never have a "Director" , it was and may still be an "Acting Director" . There is a reason for that , it also involves the National Rifle Association and some other political association. Too much for me to type at present as to the reasons why.
Get a load of the current . "Acting"
https://www.atf.gov/about-atf/executive-staff