Budget firing system setup

[mattbhm]

Hello again! I'm back with more questions like every year it seems!

I just got stocked up on fireworks for the 4th from my local shop which was doing a 40% off sale on discontinued products. Some pretty good deals and let me get what seems like a good show under $400. Obviously it's just a small show for me and my family/friends but it's still the largest one I've done so far.

I'd like to take advantage of the amount of space we have with two firing "zones". One closer for fountains/smaller cakes, and further for the harder hitting 200g and the 500g cakes. I'd rather not have to run between them, so it got me thinking about a firing system. Realistically, to stay within my budget, I'm limited to one of the Bilusocn ones from eBay. Ignite looks nice but I'd need two modules and I just can't justify that really.

So my question is, are the Bilusocn systems worth it over hand fusing/lighting? Are they reliable?(I've been reading for the past 3 hours and they seem reliable if you use the igniters right) If both are yes, would I be best to get one of the $35 12 cue with little remote or should I step up to one of the "control center" style ones? I could swing that easily since it's $96 for everything.

I appreciate any feedback/help on the matter!

[hatsgoods]

I have the 72 cue bilusocn system with control center type remote and it works great. the only downside is the cost of batteries. each firing unit takes 4 batteries and its a good idea to take the batteries out of each firing unit when not doing shows as the batteries tend to corrode and don't mix the cheapo batteries with name brands costly batteries as it could fry the curitboard. i personally use cheap alkline batteries. other then the batteries stuff i just let ya know about its a great system. also get the control panel remote that has a key switch that you have more safety that way instead of just a big power switch and keep the key on a lanyard with you. you still can fuse stuff in your shows to save on cues. ill post to videos of mine that used the systems and i had 2 of them, one with the big power switch ( i sold that system cuz i didn't like the power switch and safety factors that came with it ) and the system i have now that I'm up to 72 cues with. this is my 2 cents i have. i also have 1 ignite mod but that's my back up system / very small shows system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aezNNh1wBp0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3PoaY-oCGc

[Birdman]

Bilusocn systems are reliable but have basic functionality and they aren't the best quality as far as construction goes. They can only be powered by AA batteries, as Kelli already mentioned. One other con with the Bilusocn systems is that there is nothing to reference to see if a cue has been fired or not. Even with the best planning you're still going to need to focus on what cues you fired and which need to be fired next. It still sounds like it's a good fit for your current situation though. Will it be a good fit going forward is the question you should think about. Many of us started with these systems but quickly outgrew them as our hobby advanced and moved onto pro systems.

There are some new options out there today that weren't available just a couple of years ago that fill the void between a basic Bilusocn systems and a pro system. The Ignite system by Cobra seems to be a really nice intermediate system. It has most of the features one would need and you have 24/7 access to Cobra support. The major con is that it's currently limited to 6 modules (108 cues). While it's cheaper than a pro system, it still is rather expensive when compared to the Bilusocn systems as you already know. I think the features and upgrade options are worth it IF you are certain you will not need more cues down the road.

There's also the Crackle Cube that can be added to Bilusocn systems which adds scripting functionality at a fairly low cost. The fact that it integrates with the Bilusocn systems is both a pro and a con. However, you no longer need to invest in a new system if you have a Bilusocn and just want to add scripting capabilities to it. Having this option makes the Bilusocn systems a bit more attractive then they were, IMO.

In short, it's really a matter of personal preference, budget and future needs. All of the systems are worth their cost but would end up being a waste of money if you end up purchasing a different system down the road. So my advice is to think more about tomorrow than today.

[mattbhm]

I appreciate the feedback!

It seems like it would be a worthwhile purchase for me then. I don't see outgrowing it for a few years at minimum(if I ever do, to be fair), and at that time I could sell it if it's still working and just grab another system. At $96 for a 24 cue system, it's barely an expense compared to others, especially when more cue modules are practically pennies on the dollar. Like you both said, only downside is batteries. We have quite the stock of AAs from Black Friday clearance last year however I will most likely get cheaper batteries for these. Not a huge deal regardless.

Thanks again!

[Birdman]

If the purchase of an import system isn't going to hold you back from getting a system you really want, then that probably is a good decision. It's the same thought process I had. I still feel I got my money out of it even I only used it a few times. I still keep my import system around just because it's not worth the hassle and money to resell. I alos know the moment I sell it I'll find a use for it.

I would suggest getting a battery storage box and battery tester if you don't have one. Testing the batteries can take time but it's worth the effort to know which ones are good and which ones need replacing. I found that the batteries don't necessarily drain evenly. I also suggest trying to plan your show so that you can fire cues in sequence rather than having to switch between zones. For example, you mentioned having smaller stuff to the front and the larger cakes in the back. If you plan to fire back and forth between front/back, then I suggest mixing the mods in your zones between your two positions so you can fire each zone/cue sequentially. The one good thing about having 4 cue mods is the flexibility you get with their placement. It's much easier to just have to fire cue's 1-12 in the first zone then change zones and fire the next 1-12 cues etc. rather than having to switch back and forth between zones. My biggest frustration with firing cues manually was that I had to pay far too much attention to buttons then enjoying the fireworks. Seems I always ended up missing a cue or firing something out of my planned sequence.

Be warned though....once someone starts remote firing they tend to get more ambitious.

[mattbhm]

If the purchase of an import system isn't going to hold you back from getting a system you really want, then that probably is a good decision. It's the same thought process I had. I still feel I got my money out of it even I only used it a few times. I still keep my import system around just because it's not worth the hassle and money to resell. I alos know the moment I sell it I'll find a use for it.

I would suggest getting a battery storage box and battery tester if you don't have one. Testing the batteries can take time but it's worth the effort to know which ones are good and which ones need replacing. I found that the batteries don't necessarily drain evenly. I also suggest trying to plan your show so that you can fire cues in sequence rather than having to switch between zones. For example, you mentioned having smaller stuff to the front and the larger cakes in the back. If you plan to fire back and forth between front/back, then I suggest mixing the mods in your zones between your two positions so you can fire each zone/cue sequentially. The one good thing about having 4 cue mods is the flexibility you get with their placement. It's much easier to just have to fire cue's 1-12 in the first zone then change zones and fire the next 1-12 cues etc. rather than having to switch back and forth between zones. My biggest frustration with firing cues manually was that I had to pay far too much attention to buttons then enjoying the fireworks. Seems I always ended up missing a cue or firing something out of my planned sequence.

Be warned though....once someone starts remote firing they tend to get more ambitious.

Thanks for the information! I will most likely keep it simple this year in terms of cueing. I don't see an issue getting the entire show on 12 cues as to not switch zones. I definitely still plan on doing some hand fusing so I get much more use out of each cue/igniter. Plus more time to watch the show.

As for being more ambitious, I had planned on just using my Brother's Show and Shine as a finale but since ordering my firing system I kinda am thinking about a 12-24 canister shell finale haha.

[Mattp]

Pretty sure this dilemma is where almost all of us started out.. I think for the price and the expandability of that import system you can’t beat it,, you play with that for a few years to get used to a firing system.. then Upgrade .. LOL … seems to be the common chain of events

[Engineer Cat]

Absolutely everything Birdman said. I just found the biluscon to be a bit unreliable. I first had the 12 cue system with the little remote control you hold in your hand. Work pretty good but that only lasted me 1 year. I needed more cues. So I got the biluscon that had like 56 cues but was having issues with it firing reliably. I did a ton of testing to try to see if it was a battery issue or something else. Eventually after not having cues fire the second year I dropped the cash and got a pro system. If your just pressing buttons randomly to shoot than the not having something fire is not a huge deal. Like Birdman said about firing the cues, you don't know which ones you already pressed and if you are trying to do a quasi pyromusical like I try to do, all my attention was focused on the excel sheet I made with a time line while watching the stopwatch on my phone to know when to press the cues and try to keep track of ones I already fired. (That's not much fun for a pyro) This caused me to not actually get to watch much of the fireworks. So now I have a system that I can script the show to and just hit the fire button and let it do its thing.

And yes like Mattp said you will outgrow it in like 2 years if that. But for the money it's worth it if you have no plans of trying to sync music to it. But what you will find out is if your just pumping random tunes when shooting and your able to fire a cue on beat.... thennnnn you will quickly start thinking PYROMUSICAL.

This new crackle cube is interesting. And for the price not a bad option as an upgrade down the road to the biluscon cues to be able to sync to music.

[displayfireworks1]

If these inexpensive import fireworks firing systems do anything, they at least introduce fireworks enthusiast to wireless firing. In addition we now have the non-ATF regulated MJG Firewire Initiators. For a few hundred dollars you can advance your backyard displays and get the feel of pressing buttons to shoot fireworks.
For a minimal investment, you can test the waters to see if this is something you enjoy. You either want to stay at this level or like the feel of it and want to advance further. In my opinion, if you want to advance further as a backyard enthusiast, you do not invest deeper into more of the import systems. You advance into the next level. The next level at this time is the Cobra or the FireLinx (at the backyard level). Currently, Cobra has taken the introductory fireworks enthusiast and budget minded sector to a competitive level with the imports by introducing the Ignite system.
With the availability of all of these systems, it is positive thing for the fireworks enthusiast. It keeps tech high and prices low.

[EdwardH]

I can speak from experience with the Cobra. The Cobra system is super easy to use, really good build quality, and extraordinarily reliable (which is really important for us). I have found the Cobra team to be wonderful to work with as well. I am pleased to see the addition of FireLinx as a sponsor for the site and they too seem to have a great product that I am looking forward to hearing more about.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I can speak from experience with the Cobra. The Cobra system is super easy to use, really good build quality, and extraordinarily reliable (which is really important for us). I have found the Cobra team to be wonderful to work with as well. I am pleased to see the addition of FireLinx as a sponsor for the site and they too seem to have a great product that I am looking forward to hearing more about.

Ed - I would respectfully take issue with your statement that the Cobra system is "super easy to use." Everything else you wrote is spot on. Scott Smith and his crew at Cobra are exceptionally good at what they do and the support they provide.

That said, the Cobra system is not a "point and shoot" kind of system, and for good reason. Especially when you incorporate music and slats and scripts and talons and initiators and series wiring vs. parallel wiring, all in the same show..... It can all get really complicated really quickly.

I don't say this to scare people away from Cobra. I own the system and love it. I just wanted to provide a note of caution that it's not so "super easy" to use for a show as your comment seems to suggest. Especially for someone that's never electronically fired a show before. But the learning curve isn't so steep that a reasonably intelligent person can't figure it out with a little trial and error.

[mattbhm]

Just to keep people updated, I believe I am going with Ignite(3 modules). I already got one of the eBay firing systems(just 2 weeks ago), and it is quite nice actually, however I didn't expect to have over 40 500g cakes alone. Taking a look at the Ignite show designer, I already spent 6 hours scripting my "show" and I can't even fathom doing it all by hand with the cheap system.

Cobra is another option, but to get enough cues it would be getting into very costly area and Ignite seemingly has many of the pros of cobra(including support and reliability being a Cobra brand) with just less function. But it does more than I even plan to do, so it sounds like the best plan for me.

[hatsgoods]

Just to keep people updated, I believe I am going with Ignite(3 modules). I already got one of the eBay firing systems(just 2 weeks ago), and it is quite nice actually, however I didn't expect to have over 40 500g cakes alone. Taking a look at the Ignite show designer, I already spent 6 hours scripting my "show" and I can't even fathom doing it all by hand with the cheap system.

Cobra is another option, but to get enough cues it would be getting into very costly area and Ignite seemingly has many of the pros of cobra(including support and reliability being a Cobra brand) with just less function. But it does more than I even plan to do, so it sounds like the best plan for me.

i think you will love the ignite system. i love my system even though i only have 1 module. i use mine as a back up system and really small shows.

[Scotty Rockets]

The odds are that you will likely out grow a budget/hobby/backyard system eventually. The benefit of the ignite system is that it holds a good resale value (sold mine for nearly what I paid). However if a gen 2 comes out the resale value will certainly drop on the gen 1. I would personally bypass the (toys) and go with a pro system that you can continue to expand every year, whether it be fireTEK, Mongoose, Cobra and the newest to market Firelynx. Personally once I purchased the tiny fireTEK 4x16 sfx module with DMX, the Ignite became expendable, btw the 4x16 also networks with his big brothers, the ignite does not.

[mattbhm]

The odds are that you will likely out grow a budget/hobby/backyard system eventually. The benefit of the ignite system is that it holds a good resale value (sold mine for nearly what I paid). However if a gen 2 comes out the resale value will certainly drop on the gen 1. I would personally bypass the (toys) and go with a pro system that you can continue to expand every year, whether it be fireTEK, Mongoose, Cobra and the newest to market Firelynx. Personally once I purchased the tiny fireTEK 4x16 sfx module with DMX, the Ignite became expendable, btw the 4x16 also networks with his big brothers, the ignite does not.

Yeah I'm not set with the Ignite system, however I do think it's a good fit especially because like you said, resale value is great. Even with a new version, I don't see resale value dropping too much just since it's the cheapest "semi-professional/prosumer" option.

I was looking at the fireTEK 4x16 but it doesn't seem to actually be available anywhere? It's not listed on their website, just videos on their YouTube. I am fairly sure it's more expensive than I am looking to go right now, however I was interested in learning more about it.

[Scotty Rockets]

The website is in transition right now. You can contact fireTEK directly at office@ftek.eu or through their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/firetekfiringsystem/

[mattbhm]

The website is in transition right now. You can contact fireTEK directly at office@ftek.eu or through their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/firetekfiringsystem/

Yeah I actually just reached out via email 20 minutes ago and already got a response.

Thanks for the info, I will definitely be considering all options.

[esgrillo]

Ed - I would respectfully take issue with your statement that the Cobra system is "super easy to use."

lol... Rick... I was wth did I say and then saw it was for someone else... lol

I figured you might still be a bit crusty about the first time you used the Cobra and forgot what channel you had the script set to start on and had to run in it manual :D

[Rick_In_Tampa]

lol... Rick... I was wth did I say and then saw it was for someone else... lol

I figured you might still be a bit crusty about the first time you used the Cobra and forgot what channel you had the script set to start on and had to run in it manual :D

Sorry Ed. Didn't mean to scare you. Lol... OMG.... You're darned right I'm crusty about that! Every year I have nightmares about that happening again. That's why I had to say, Cobra isn't as straight forward as the OTHER Ed was suggesting. With Cobra (and any other advanced system) it's test, test, and test again. Preferably BEFORE show time! :p

[Engineer Cat]

lol... Rick... I was wth did I say and then saw it was for someone else... lol

I figured you might still be a bit crusty about the first time you used the Cobra and forgot what channel you had the script set to start on and had to run in it manual :D

Hahaha this happened to me when using the Firelinx for the first time. There's a few steps to get into the internal clock mode which is what I was running the script off of. I think in my excitement and all the other checks and double checks on prep I just armed the controller and hit fire..... (in manual mode). First cue fired and the clock was running, and running and running without firing cues. I ended up shooting the show manual once I realized what was happening. The next day I went over what had happened and swore I was running the script with the internal clock but I couldn't replicate the issue when I was in the correct mode. I even sent the script to Firelinx to see if there was something wrong with it and they confirmed it worked properly on their end. My conclusion was I didn't program it to the right firing mode. That WILL NOT happen this year. I will be wasting some initiators this weekend running tests on the new script.

[Firelinx]

Hi, Gene!

If you want to run it by us again, we're here to help, don't hesitate! :)


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