Cobra Dead Internal Battery

[displayfireworks1]

Here is short video clip from one of my Facebook videos. This is not my show. Curious to get responses and for those new it can be a learning experience. They are using Cobra mods with internal batteries. Just before the show they now realize the "Internal" batteries are dead on two modules. The two stories are they didn't properly charge them and/or they left the key in the Arm and or Test position and it drained the battery.
If you have a Cobra mod with internal battery and now realize at show time the internal battery is dead. What what you Plan B be?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nNzT-kHs-w

[BMoore]

Wow. That would make for a bad day. A fully charged battery should last 8-10 hours in test mode and up to 24 hours armed and asleep. Unless they had the modules fully wired that far in advance I would think they would have noticed if they were in test mode. You should really never land wires to the module without making sure it is off. If they charged them properly they may have a problem with the charger, but simply testing the battery voltage would have revealed if they didn't charge.

Sounds like human error or at least a failure to confirm voltage before putting them into service. Having said that, LIPO's can get finicky when stored long term and this is why I have stuck with 9V. As a person who shoots maybe 4 times a year max, I feel more comfortable with a fresh set of 9V every one or two shoots. Plus I can keep extra 9V's in the truck in case I need them.

[displayfireworks1]

I do not have LiPo model Cobra. The nice thing about the standard 9 volt battery one is, in this situation you can just take the dead battery out and drop a new one in. Just looking back over the displays I was a guest one , I have seen this key left on a few times. I am curious what a Plan B is on a LiPO system with a dead battery. If you plug an external charger into the module charge port, will that allow immediate use?
On a side note I must say I was please to see an included Plan B on the new Ignite systems. A cable to add a traditional 9 volt is included in the event of LiPo failure

[cduesman]

All Cobra 18M/36M/72M LiPo modules can take normal 9V batteries internally (or they have port for external batteries).

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44001923535-36m-72m-power-options

If you haven't used your mods in a long time, you could charge them up and let them on for couple hours. If one of the batteries drops quickly/shows any issues, you can call Cobra and they will send you a replacement.

Chris

[BMoore]

All Cobra 18M/36M/72M LiPo modules can take normal 9V batteries internally (or they have port for external batteries).

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44001923535-36m-72m-power-options

If you haven't used your mods in a long time, you could charge them up and let them on for couple hours. If one of the batteries drops quickly/shows any issues, you can call Cobra and they will send you a replacement.

Chris

Now I've learned something new and feel stupid. I've used Cobra for over 5 years had always assumed that the "built in LIPO" was literally built into the module. However it looks like it's actually a removable LIPO that plugs into a port in the regular 9V battery compartment. Knowing that, I might rethink the LIPO option the next time I add modules.

[cduesman]

As a reminder, when you do change the battery/voltage used by the modules (like going from the 18.8V LIPO to 9V batteries), you must also change the Voltage mode on the module. This tells the module what voltage to expect and how to report it's charge properly.

There's several help pages that talk about the Voltage mode:

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44001781933-what-is-the-voltage-mode-and-how-do-i-change-it-

On the 36M/72M, if you have the wrong voltage selected it could give an Error 1 Low Driver on startup. (I don't know why they used the term "Driver", I don't think everyone instantly knows that's a battery issue.)

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44002227141-my-36m-72m-is-showing-error-1-low-driver-what-does-this-mean-

Chris

[displayfireworks1]

Now I've learned something new and feel stupid. I've used Cobra for over 5 years had always assumed that the "built in LIPO" was literally built into the module. However it looks like it's actually a removable LIPO that plugs into a port in the regular 9V battery compartment. Knowing that, I might rethink the LIPO option the next time I add modules.

Please do not feel as you call it stupid. I am posting this as a learning opportunity. Every pyro- technician needs to have a Plan B in the event the equipment does not perform. I do not have a Cobra LiPo. For those that do, what you say this picture is a good illustration of your LiPo unit battery compartment? If you own one, please feel free to post a picture.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6049&stc=1

[Birdman]

There's also the optional 12-24V DC input that comes standard with the LiPo battery mods. I checked my LiPo mods and can confirm the LiPo battery can be removed and there are terminals for 9v batteries.

My guess is that they left the mod on (Test/Arm) unless further testing showed the LiPo battery not performing as expected. One thing I noticed is that you can remove the key while it is in any position. I assume there are users that would want to "lock" the mod in the Test/Arm position but I would prefer that you could only remove the key in the off position.

Here's the general procedure I've use:


About a week before a show I will insert and check battery levels on the mods (Batteries at power level >6 on power up get replaced/charged).

Before I transport my remote/mods to the shoot site I check the power levels again.

When I place my mods at the shoot site I power on again and check battery levels and check/set the mods channel and put the key in the off position.

Once all of the mods are placed I will turn all mods to test (checking power level and channel again) then check the remote for power level and connected mods.

If I'm running a script I will test my script one last time, turn off all mods/remote and start wiring.

As I complete wiring each mod I will turn it to test, confirm power level for batteries and channel again then check cues for continuity (green light).

Once the mod passes all of those checks I will turn it off and pull the key (rinse and repeat for each mod).

Once setup is complete all mods get turned to test and do the usual checks on mods and remote.

About 20 mins before my show I will make sure the area is clear and arm my mods and do the usual checks again.

I will then power on the remote and make sure everything checks out on it.

After the show I will power off and remove keys from all mods as I clear the area.

Before storing the mods/remote for longer terms I will remove all 9v/AA batteries and make sure my LiPo's are depleted to at least power level 8.


I use to replace all of my batteries before my 4th show because at that point most were at least mildly depleted but this year I've started replacing as needed. My LiPo mods are the ones I use with slats, series wiring etc. and these typically get a full charge before the 4th. They also get used the most now. My 9v power mods rarely get any use outside of the 4th now. I always keep spare batteries with me and I also bring my LiPo charger and a small power bank with an inverter (https://smile.amazon.com/65Watts-Portable-Charger-Battery-Notebooks/dp/B07P87JTVT/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2I67OY9KMEXAU&dchild=1&keywords=power%2Bbank%2Bwith%2Bac%2Boutlet&qid=1634919422&qsid=134-8897242-3371219&sprefix=power%2Bbank%2Bwith%2BAC%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-5&sres=B07P87JTVT%2CB07D29QNMJ%2CB08LVQ3DB5%2CB0823B B4RV%2CB07S7TK88B%2CB079FSPRXM%2CB07SD4KMMN%2CB088 GRSKDR%2CB097M7NLVN%2CB097M9R9CT%2CB0912MM6F3%2CB0 7T48L6CF%2CB07WQN41V9%2CB08Z7N3BMN%2CB08GKFGJ68%2C B07H4K88PB%2CB07L9W45MY%2CB099S574XC%2CB083SCQB9B% 2CB088KDMPF5&th=1) so I can charge batteries, laptop, phone, etc in the field if needed.

I'm always adjusting my procedures (usually for better but sometimes for worse) but the main theme is test/check often because you can only fire once. I've learned to trust the Cobra's power tests but I still don't like to push things. My testing showed that if you stayed within the Cobra limits for series\parallel wiring I was able to fire everything fine at power level 5. My remote got good signal at a good distance at power level 3. My testing wasn't very scientific but it was confirmation enough for me that I didn't need to replace batteries as often.

I just did a test with one of my LiPo mods. I pulled the LiPo battery and connected the charger to mod which was powered by my power bank. I was able to power on and fire an e-match. So another backup option out there appears to be powering your LiPo mod with the charger. More testing would be needed to confirm it can fire more than just one cue with one e-match.

[cduesman]

I just did a test with one of my LiPo mods. I pulled the LiPo battery and connected the charger to mod which was powered by my power bank. I was able to power on and fire an e-match. So another backup option out there appears to be powering your LiPo mod with the charger. More testing would be needed to confirm it can fire more than just one cue with one e-match.

I don't believe it's recommended by Cobra to operate the mod using the charger:

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44001783644-can-i-power-the-36m-72m-using-the-charger-

The charger is limiting current to 300 mA. The LiPos supply like 900 mA, that's a big power difference.

Chris

[Birdman]

I don't believe it's recommended by Cobra to operate the mod using the charger:

https://help.cobrafiringsystems.com/support/solutions/articles/44001783644-can-i-power-the-36m-72m-using-the-charger-

The charger is limiting current to 300 mA. The LiPos supply like 900 mA, that's a big power difference.

Chris

Good to know but it did fire and there appears to be no damage. It may not fire more than one at a time but I have no intentions of doing any further tests. However, in a pinch with no other option, getting something to fire is better than nothing. With Cobra it seems there's tested and approved uses\limitations and everything else is untested and therefore not recommend. Again, in a pinch with no other option, it would be something I would seriously consider in spite of the risks. Realistically one should never be in that situation.

[displayfireworks1]

Remember when I visit a shoot site I try not to intervene when I see something going wrong. Plus I do not own a Cobra Module with the LiPo battery option. In the video with them using the LiPo battery module and now they suddenly realize at next to shoot time they realize the LiPo batteries are dead, their choice was to take the two modules out of the show. It looks like their first choice was to try to replace the modules with other extra mods. Realizing how much of a pain and time that would have been they just removed them .
Again I do not own a LiPo Cobra mod. If a LiPo Cobra shooter finds themselves in this situation, is it fair to say, you always have the option of removing the LiPo and quickly installing traditional 9 Volt batteries as the plan B. If the picture I posted is correct, even with a Cobra LiPo the provision for traditional 9 volt batteries is an option. If this is all true, will the module still hold the connection to the remote on a manual fire display or will the module need re- synchronized. Remember all of your stuff is still connected during this battery swap out. Comments welcome.

[Mudballs]

Yes. A lipo module will also take 9v batteries and work. You don't have to change anything but the voltage output on the module. I tried to upload some pics, but told me size was too big. ��

[Scotty Rockets]

I always have a few back up external batteries with me. Mine are lipo drill batteries with adapters you can buy on ebay.

[displayfireworks1]

Yes. A lipo module will also take 9v batteries and work. You don't have to change anything but the voltage output on the module. I tried to upload some pics, but told me size was too big. ��

The forms software will only allow a certain size picture to upload. If you post the picture on Facebook or another social media , you can then right click the picture and Save As back to your computer. That sometimes will reduce the size. Then upload onto the forums. If you do not have video/picture editing software. You can email pictures to pyrotalk @gmail.com I can add them also.

[cduesman]

...will the module still hold the connection to the remote on a manual fire display or will the module need re- synchronized.

The modules will not lose their remote sync or channel setting when the batteries are changed.

I believe I saw/heard somewhere that the modules will actually use whatever power source provides the highest voltage when multiple power sources are used at the same time. (I'm not sure if it's looking at just voltage or current. I suppose it's possible for some batteries to show a normal voltage but not be able to provide the required amperage when under load.)

From https://www.cobrafiringsystems.com/poweradapter it says:

External 12-24V DC Input - Rugged external binding posts support external 12 and 24V DC input. For permanent installations, we offer a custom 110/220V A/C to 24V D/C converter. Use the internal LiPo battery pack together with the A/C input to act as a real-time power backup.

Chris

[Birdman]

A pain to swap out the mods with extras? I'm not understanding what is such a pain about doing that? I'd guess you're looking at 30 minutes tops.

To resize an image file using Windows just right-click on the picture and select Edit or open the image file in Windows Paint. There is resize option in Paint:

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6050&stc=1

[BMoore]

Swapping out the modules wouldn’t take very long. I suspect it was so close to shoot time that they kind of panicked and were at the point where they didn’t want to risk making things worse. Question is what happened to the product that was on those modules? Hand fire?

[displayfireworks1]

Swapping out the modules wouldn?t take very long. I suspect it was so close to shoot time that they kind of panicked and were at the point where they didn?t want to risk making things worse. Question is what happened to the product that was on those modules? Hand fire?

The product was all single shot AP products. They just eliminated those two mods. For new users what is the lesson. Keep your rechargeable batteries fully charged as close to shoot date and time as possible. Always be sure your modules are keyed to off position when finished checking continuity etc. If you have a Cobra mod with an internal LiPo battery either carry a fully charged LiPo replacement or traditional 9 Volt batteries. It looks like in this situation they could have removed the dead LiPo and used the still available option to add three 9 volt batteries. On a manually fired display, the mods will still stay in sync with the remote when the new batteries are added. I suspect the remote will need turned off and back on again to find the now newly powered up mods. Always remember how many modules you have in the field, when the Cobra remote looks for armed modules , you know what the correct number displaying on the remote is. I hope I said all of that correctly. LOL Please feel free to add additional recommendations.

[esgrillo]

...... If this is all true, will the module still hold the connection to the remote on a manual fire display or will the module need re- synchronized. Remember all of your stuff is still connected during this battery swap out. Comments welcome.

Dave, you do not have to re-synch. All you need to do is change the voltage setting which is just a couple presses of the buttons on the mod

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Two years ago I was arming my mods right before shoot time and one mod was dead. Not sure what happened, but it was a quick plug mod and I had an extra one charged and ready to go. So I just swapped it out which took about 5 min and we were ready to shoot.

The truth is, I had no backup plan. I simply got lucky that year. It was my first time using slats so I had a bunch of leftover mods that didn't get put in the show.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Good to know but it did fire and there appears to be no damage. It may not fire more than one at a time but I have no intentions of doing any further tests. However, in a pinch with no other option, getting something to fire is better than nothing. With Cobra it seems there's tested and approved uses\limitations and everything else is untested and therefore not recommend. Again, in a pinch with no other option, it would be something I would seriously consider in spite of the risks. Realistically one should never be in that situation.

I'm no expert on how the modules are designed, but it's my understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that each module has overvoltage protection built in. So you could have it set to use 9V batteries and put in Li-Po batteries and it will fire everything just fine without frying the mod. Conversely, you can have it set to Li-Po battery power, and use 9V batteries and it will still fire. It won't report the battery life properly if you don't change the input power type on the mod, but it will fire the cues just fine. That's my understanding. I've not tested that theory, but I believe it to be the case. If someone has better information, please share it with the group.