Poking Consumer Shells - Can I?

[Bitzan]

I have poked consumer cakes with great success. Any reason I can't do the same for consumer reloadable shells?

[Arles]

Yes, there are videos around showing it. Some say go in from the side edge of the bottom, others say go in from underneath bottom. Just make sure you tie the ignitor wire off on a a nail or similar or I've seen a display operator tie them off though a small hole drilled through the top of the mortar, as the wires can get pulled out and then take other things with it.

[Bitzan]

Yes, there are videos around showing it. Some say go in from the side edge of the bottom, others say go in from underneath bottom. Just make sure you tie the ignitor wire off on a a nail or similar or I've seen a display operator tie them off though a small hole drilled through the top of the mortar, as the wires can get pulled out and then take other things with it.

Thank you. My inclination would be to just poke where the consumer visco goes in?

[CozmicRooster]

Thank you. My inclination would be to just poke where the consumer visco goes in?

I usually pull the visco fuse out and discard it, bore the hole out with the brass poke and insert the initiator and tape over the hole. I haven’t had any problems with that method. Sometimes the visco has some glue around the hole to hold it in place but it will usually pull out without much trouble.

[Engineer Cat]

I prefer to pop the lift charge disk off the bottom and place the initiator in there and tape it back up. Takes hardly any effort to get that open. Most of the time you can just get half of it open and stick it in then close it up. My thought on this is there is no way for the initiator to get stuck in the shell as it lifts. So no issues with the wire getting pulled or possibly shorting the high of the shell because of the drag from the initiator being poked through the side.

Here's another thread discussing this but with display shells.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/showthread.php?8633-Electronic-Initatiors-and-Consumer-Display-Shells&highlight=initiator+lift

[Birdman]

I poke the bottom and leave the fuse there. It's nice to have a fuse to light if the MJG doesn't fire for some reason...all of the opinions you need are in the thread Engineer Cat linked.

[WithReport]

As others have said - yes it can be done.

A large portion of my consumer shells and cannisters are fired with igniters in the lift. This year I had 155 e-fired cannisters or consumer shells in 81 flights.

There is no point in going through the side of the lift on cannisters with a poke, just go through the bottom or the edge of the bottom - its usually just thin paper.

the safety visco fuse on consumer shells burn from 4 seconds to over 6 seconds depending on the brand/year/manufacture, etc. With lift times of around 1.6 seconds and a break duration of around 1.2 seconds, there is a chance that any length of burning fuse could still be burning when it returns to the ground. For that reason only, I cut all the fuses short or remove them when e-firing them.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5901&stc=1

[Kooooou]

I poke through the bottom for simplicity and quickly tape the hole as some consumer shells use very thin paper as the base of the lift cup. Might be excessive but it takes a few seconds to tape around the inserted match.

When time permits, I would much rather replace the fuse with an ematch or initiator instead of poking through the bottom. Reason being I've seen one particular no-name kit where a few shells had the black lift powder all gummed up by the fuse and nothing was sitting at the bottom of the lift cup. One of those shells did not fire using an initiator but the other 23 shot fine using the same initiators.

[displayfireworks1]

As others have said - yes it can be done.

A large portion of my consumer shells and cannisters are fired with igniters in the lift. This year I had 155 e-fired cannisters or consumer shells in 81 flights.

There is no point in going through the side of the lift on cannisters with a poke, just go through the bottom or the edge of the bottom - its usually just thin paper.

the safety visco fuse on consumer shells burn from 4 seconds to over 6 seconds depending on the brand/year/manufacture, etc. With lift times of around 1.6 seconds and a break duration of around 1.2 seconds, there is a chance that any length of burning fuse could still be burning when it returns to the ground. For that reason only, I cut all the fuses short or remove them when e-firing them.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5901&stc=1

With that picture of you placing an MJG Initiator into each individual Canister Artillery Shell you just illustrated where the future of the advanced backyard fireworks enthuist is headed. It looks like all those professional displays I worked on over the years. We as advanced enthusiast are exactly where the display industry was in the mid to late 90's, and we are gaining on them very quickly. During that time all shells coming out of China were made to hand lite. We had to use scissor to cut that part off and place electric match into the the very tight quick match. We would pull the shroud back , cut off the fuse and place electric match into each shell leader. If it was a pyro-musical, each shell would be numbered and include a module number and a pin number.
I keep saying this , the more we as advanced fireworks enthusiast progress, the more and more we look and behave like professional display companies as opposed to our pyrotechnic roots of making fireworks. It is now about presentation. The cost and availability of professional fireworks firing system, computers, the MJG Initiators , the racks , the software etc. The major regulatory agencies and trade groups need to address this. I feel I am already there adding the E-Match ports to my products. What else needs done?
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Now that I see these artillery shells individually matched.
The companies that make the racks and firing systems need to create rails and racks that match, ex. 10 1.91 mortars is x number of inches long. The firing system rail is the same x number of inches long to belt tie to the rack and allow easy connection. I can explain further but the overall idea is to have the same setup as professional companies are currently doing.
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The part that worries me is , the two major fireworks trade groups may or may not be slow to adapt to this?????

[mguerra]

You can put a Talon in the lift, or an ematch: https://youtu.be/mVXYZK5DI6c

[mguerra]

Here?s how to tie the loop, this is exactly how we do it on the big mortars of a 1.3 display. However if you poke the bottom paper disc you won?t need to tie the match or the Talon off this way. If you waste your time and energy poking through the thick cardboard and putting your match in through the side, you might want to tie it off. https://youtu.be/y_P7ZW8WTwE

[WithReport]

Here?s how to tie the loop, this is exactly how we do it on the big mortars of a 1.3 display. However if you poke the bottom paper disc you won?t need to tie the match or the Talon off this way. If you waste your time and energy poking through the thick cardboard and putting your match in through the side, you might want to tie it off. https://youtu.be/y_P7ZW8WTwE

Where I have enough muzzel left out of the racks, this is what I do at times, but for the small consumer cans and shells, the mortar is so small, its easier to just wrap them around a screw. Yes, it take a bit longer during teardown, but IMO it is quicker setup. I'm not overly concerned with my teardown - we toss all the cakes, load everting else on the trailer, and push it back into the shop.

This is tomorrows task...


http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5905&stc=1



I would recommend always tying them off, even if you are just poking through the bottom - the wires go flying sill and can pull on other wires. This is a 1.3 pod I filmed, but the situation is the same.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeM6dkzD_w0

[Birdman]

I've already ran the wires under a cinder block. Also tied the wires off to a piece of rebar pounded it the ground. Both worked fine. But I poke the bottom and only use a small piece of tape to cover where it's inserted. In that case the wire is not being pulled out of the mortar but blown out by the lift charge. I actually did a test where I tied some scab wire on to the end of the wire and fired the MJG using a 9V battery. I loosely held on to the wire as it fired to see how much pull was being put on the wire. When I just poked and taped the bottom there was just a slight tug but the wire didn't pull out of my hand or break at the splice. When I poked the side or taped the wire to the shell there was much more pull, and in one case it ripped the splice and took the other part of the wire with it. Not a scientific test because I know the grip on the wire was different each time and the splice may not have been as tight each time.

My takeaways were:

Always secure the wire
Wires need to be more secure if you poke the side or have the wires taped to the shell
Always secure the wires before a splice

On a side note, I have already tied every wire (even for cakes) around a piece of rebar pounded in the ground near the mod. Between being taped to the cake and tied off at the rebar there's little chance of the MJG being pulled out of the cake or mod if I tripped on a wire. I would at least know to check my cake even if it did pull out of the cake. Now way it's pulling out of the mod.

[Salutecake]

I follow 2 of Dave's video's, one older from a company I won't mention cause I don't think they advertise here, but an Eastern PA company, that ties the e-match off in holes drilled at the top of the mortar tubes. Works very well on 1.3 and 1.4 and not external screws to impale yourself. 2nd, Dave did a video, not sure if it was all about poking cans or just part of it, but he pokes by the fuse and uses 2 pieces of tape, one at the fuse and then one at the top to hold the igniter in place, and has he also states, helps not to put the shell in upside down.

I wish I had the links for you if they are still available. if for nothing else, a different way to try.

[displayfireworks1]

i'm still busy playing catch up but I am reading some of the post of the forums. Nice to see it all so active. I just recently posted a video on my Facebook from three years ago when I did a Facebook live showing this technique. I also have multiple YouTube videos showing it. I had to age restrict some of my videos showing some of these advanced fireworks techniques. This is something YouTube requested. I'll post the videos links here but I suspect it may direct you to watch them on YouTube and you will need to sign into your YouTube account to verify you are over 18.
Before I get too much criticism I have no problem pulling back the shroud cover on an electric match. Just because I do it , it does not mean you have to. What we as advanced fireworks enthusiast are doing is, defeating a fusing system designed for Consumer Use. There are both risk and rewards associated with that. It is not for everyone. There is also more than one way to do it.
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From 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucIFFsyVREc
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From 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZthkPvKrDY
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I have a video page on pyrotalk.com dedicated to Fireworks Projects.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/fireworks-projects.php