Reloading Shells & wait times?

[215less]

I have a small relaxed shoot coming up and am limited to only 7 3" tubes. I was really planning on casually hand firing and reloading as i go until the main show which is all 1.3 and 1.4 cakes on a cobra. What would you type 54 guys do? What is a safe time before reloading from a smoking gun per say or is it no different than any 1.4 ball/canister shell?

[BMoore]

I have a small relaxed shoot coming up and am limited to only 7 3" tubes. I was really planning on casually hand firing and reloading as i go until the main show which is all 1.3 and 1.4 cakes on a cobra. What would you type 54 guys do? What is a safe time before reloading from a smoking gun per say or is it no different than any 1.4 ball/canister shell?

7 tubes? So I'm assuming they aren't in a rack? How many shells do you plan on firing? I wouldn't reload more than twice per gun because those 3" shells are going to leave their lift cups in the bottom. You don't want those building up. Otherwise you'll need something to clean out the tubes before firing. And yes, it is FAR more dangerous than a 1.4 shell. First of all you have quickmatch leaders which is going to be an instantaneous firing as opposed to visco which will give you some warning. Also, the bottom of the lift on consumer shells is generally thicker and more flame retardant than those on a 1.3 shell. Finally, if a 1.4 shell hits you, you will likely be injured but survive. A 3" 1.3 shell not so much. Personally I would never reload unless it's a situation where say you have 70 guns and a case of 72 shells so you have a pair that you need to get rid of. I would not reload by design especially if its just you shooting. Ideally with a reload situation you'd have the shooter, a person to clean out the mortar and a person manning the ready box and reload process. Whenever I got my type 54 the first thing I did was buy enough racks to handle a full case of shells.

[215less]

7 tubes? So I'm assuming they aren't in a rack? How many shells do you plan on firing? I wouldn't reload more than twice per gun because those 3" shells are going to leave their lift cups in the bottom. You don't want those building up. Otherwise you'll need something to clean out the tubes before firing. And yes, it is FAR more dangerous than a 1.4 shell. First of all you have quickmatch leaders which is going to be an instantaneous firing as opposed to visco which will give you some warning. Also, the bottom of the lift on consumer shells is generally thicker and more flame retardant than those on a 1.3 shell. Finally if a 1.4 shell hits you, you will likely be injured but survived. A 3" 1.3 shell not so much. Personally I would never reload unless it's a situation where say you have 70 guns and a case of 72 shells so you have a pair that you need to get rid of. I would not reload by design especially if its just you shooting. Ideally with a reload situation you'd have the shooter, a person to clean out the mortar and a person manning the ready box and reload process. Whenever I got my type 54 was to buy enough racks to handle a full case of shells.

I have no shame in admitting but Im new to the 1.3 world, we all start somewhere hence why im asking. Went through a PGI course, helped work a show, got license and now want to step up my backyard show safely.

I was planning on shooting off 30 shells throughout the evening thru the seven tubes. I didn't think about the lift cups. All things to consider, Thanks BMoore.

[Okimarine]

No shame in asking. Better to ask than cause an injury or damage. I'm new as well but have done extensive research (google) and alot of reading for manufacturing and display operations about a year before I even appied for my license.

I'm personally not a fan of reloading but I know what its like to be limited on mortars. The NFPA 1123 chapter 4.3.5 says that tubes (hdpe, fiberglass) for shells 6" or less can be reloaded up to 7 times during a performance. Metal tubes can be reloaded an unlimited amount of times.

The PGI's display operators course is recognized by the NFPA so I assume PGI's curriculum closely mirrors the NFPA 1123 for outdoor fireworks.

This does not answer your question on how much time you should wait before reloading and I could not find that regulation or recommendation in the NFPA so I would do as already suggested and tip the rack over to empty any contents remaining from the previous shot before reloading.

Also, insert a visco leader fuse of 6 inches if the shells are quick matched. You don't want them going off the instant they are lit. 6 inches of Visco will give you a few seconds to turn and walk away from it.

[displayfireworks1]

What is amusing for me is at one time reloading 1.3 fireworks shells was common place. The instructions from China on each shell detailed how to reload a shell. Now, when you talk about reloading display shells someone thinks you lost you mind. LOL I wish I could teach you in person how to do it because it is difficult to explain all of the details involved.
I see you are using three inch shells. Three inch shells are probably the hardest to reload. The reason is they do not have enough weight to readily drop to the bottom of the mortar consistently. Even when loading normally you sometimes need a stick to push them to the bottom of the mortar.
It looks like you have seven mortars , not sure if they are in racks or loose mortars. If loose mortars , split into two separate four to the left and three to the right. With at least 20 feet between each bank. You do not want all seven right next to each-other. Since you are new at this, after you fire the left side and move out the way to fire the right side, someone other than you reloads the left side. Then it just goes back and forth slowly, back and forth between you and the re-loader. Because these are three inch shells, have a stick or small long board handy to push a shell to the bottom of the mortar. Three inch shells don't always readily drop hard to the bottom because they do have that much weight. Four and Five inch shells drop hard because of their weight.
.
In this unlisted video you will see me reload 5 inch shells during a professional display. Reloading a 5 inch shell is easier than a 3 inch shell. A 5 inch shell has weight and drops quick. A three inch shell does not drop quick because of less weight. Of course assume that as soon as it enters the pipe it can go off. Keep the fuse cover on.
This is where I recommend advanced fireworks enthusiast work at least part time for a professional display company.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2efDpATmuDM

[Scotty Rockets]

DON?T DO IT There is a reason why most display companies absolutely forbid reloading.

[BMoore]

I have no shame in admitting but Im new to the 1.3 world, we all start somewhere hence why im asking. Went through a PGI course, helped work a show, got license and now want to step up my backyard show safely.

I was planning on shooting off 30 shells throughout the evening thru the seven tubes. I didn't think about the lift cups. All things to consider, Thanks BMoore.


You should have no shame. Asking questions is what this forum is for and we've all been there. Dave's description is the old school way of doing a pro shoot with two firing lines. One side gets reloaded while the other is being fired. It works, but notice that it involves more than one person which is what I was saying. You at least need a shooter and a reloader and I'd say a 3rd person to clean out the guns. Do you have other people willing to take that risk for a "casual shoot?" I had to reload once because I ended up short a rack. I'll tell you that carrying a shell while seeing embers on the ground and smoke coming from the guns is about as nervous as I've ever been shooting fireworks. Can it be done? Certainly. Is it the same as/as safe as reloading consumer shells? Not by a long shot.

[displayfireworks1]

I have some unlisted video that play on the main section of pyrotalk.com. While they are on YouTube they do not show up in a search etc. I have them embedded on part of pyrotalk.com video sections. This unlisted video if from 2011. It covers reloading a fireworks display. I suspect when you are in the display business and sell too many displays on July 4th and can't properly do the logistics to get the racks from one location to the other etc.
.
You can view it here. From 2011. I titled it "Reloaded" because it involves reloading.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/13-fireworks-display-reloaded.php

[RalphieJ]

Man, that video brought back a lot of memories..............

[215less]

What is amusing for me is at one time reloading 1.3 fireworks shells was common place. The instructions from China on each shell detailed how to reload a shell. Now, when you talk about reloading display shells someone thinks you lost you mind. LOL I wish I could teach you in person how to do it because it is difficult to explain all of the details involved.
I see you are using three inch shells. Three inch shells are probably the hardest to reload. The reason is they do not have enough weight to readily drop to the bottom of the mortar consistently. Even when loading normally you sometimes need a stick to push them to the bottom of the mortar.
It looks like you have seven mortars , not sure if they are in racks or loose mortars. If loose mortars , split into two separate four to the left and three to the right. With at least 20 feet between each bank. You do not want all seven right next to each-other. Since you are new at this, after you fire the left side and move out the way to fire the right side, someone other than you reloads the left side. Then it just goes back and forth slowly, back and forth between you and the re-loader. Because these are three inch shells, have a stick or small long board handy to push a shell to the bottom of the mortar. Three inch shells don't always readily drop hard to the bottom because they do have that much weight. Four and Five inch shells drop hard because of their weight.
.
In this unlisted video you will see me reload 5 inch shells during a professional display. Reloading a 5 inch shell is easier than a 3 inch shell. A 5 inch shell has weight and drops quick. A three inch shell does not drop quick because of less weight. Of course assume that as soon as it enters the pipe it can go off. Keep the fuse cover on.
This is where I recommend advanced fireworks enthusiast work at least part time for a professional display company.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2efDpATmuDM

Dave. Thanks for the tips and video link. I feel confident now and have recruited some help. I will pick up afew more tubes and split this into 2 racks as you recommend. I have 30 shells I plan on shooting of the course of 3+ hours so I feel confident and will air on the side of safety foremost.

[215less]

Update: I ended up getting a total of 30 tubes so I will end up loading all 30 and e-matching everything with a cobra instead, feels safer anyways. I’ll try and find a show that’s hand firing and ask to join in someday, I know they are becoming less of and more like a lost art. Anywho Thanks y’all for the tips and concerns.

[PyroManiacs]

Update: I’ll try and find a show that’s hand firing and ask to join in someday, .

Next year bro.

[Mattp]

It is funny.. like Dave said.. before the rise of all this electronic stuff… reloading was part of the job… even Disney shows used to do it … yes definitely dangerous.. but how it was…

[Salutecake]

Hey 215less, At the PGI classes you get to fire like 2 3" shells, what I have observed is, someone loads a shell and shoots it off, then the next person goes up loads a shell in the same rack and shoots their shell off and it goes on -- but the important part, and they never said this and it is only what I observed is the instructors there would pick the tube for you to put your shell in and it would not be the same tube as the person before you, spaced out, and I'm sure they were looking for sparks in any tube.
Has far as hand firing goes, there are plenty of companies out there that still hand fire and also mix electronic and hand fire. Just worked a show in NJ like that, and I think the company is like from South Central PA, you have to look around but those companies our out there, and working a show or 2 with them is a great experience.

[sks9006]

As a display supervisor in Canada, one of the first things we teach is the extreme importance of clearing all mortar tubes of previous lift cups and debris that could cause a low breaking shell, not to mention one that mines in the tube. Please don't reload hot mortar tubes, I've seen bad things happen. 1.3G can be dangerous when not used properly, even the small caliber shells.

[215less]

Next year bro.


I’m holding you to that. I saw your FB post too so we shall see. HMU.

[215less]

Thanks SKS9006 and Salutecake. When I took the PGI course. They did the same thing on a 3” 10 tube rack.

[FBpyro]

And here I was on the fourth worrying about reloading 1.4 canister shells between 3 tubes. The only issue I had was that I had two salutes pre-wired to my firing system that I intended to drop into my tubes after I was done hand firing and then fire them as a part of my finale. I had completely forgotten to load them and they exploded on the ground when I hit the cue whoops lol. Fortunately, no one was injured and no equipment or product was damaged.

[Merolis]

For CA, the regs are 1hr cooldown after firing.