HDPE Safety

[indianahx]

In light of recent discussion about different safety aspects of different pipe, someone else found this video and posted it elsewhere. I thought it showed perfectly how well HDPE dissipated the pressure and blast of a catastrophic shell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid...&v=iDex1_c33HI

Note, this is not my video. Im not sure if there is any such video out there showing it, but I would love to see a side by side comparison of an HDPE, fiberglass, cardboard, and Pvc blowout. I would also love to see a completely loaded rack of the same scenario just to see what happens when an improperly loaded tube ruins the integrity of a fully loaded live and firing rack.

[Pyro@Mach13]

Good video, thanks for posting the link to it.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Good video. You can see how intense the pressure from the gasses are in the way that tube bloomed. The differences in tubes has been discussed before--perhaps if Dave is up to filming it we can do a side by side test of HDPE-Fiberglass-& Cardboard tubes loaded upside down at Kellners in April. I can supply the tubes & identical canister shells.....I don't want to be anywhere near or have anything to do with PVC tubes, though & I doubt the site safety people would like that being done either...but maybe they would allow it as an educational tool since it would be a controlled test????
What do you think, Dave? It would make a good informational video.

[indianahx]

I know the difference in the tubes has been discussed frequently no matter what forum you're on. My point was that I think it would be great to have the live firing of each type of rack (one at a time) and just see the differences in how each rack takes the blowout. Like you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the Pvc rack unless it was behind a barrier or bunker. If I had any kind of field or property I would totally sacrifice a rack or two and do it......

[Palermitano2]

Great video. Thanks for sharing. I hope Dave will make a comparison video.

[J's12talk]

Great video. Thanks for sharing. I hope Dave will make a comparison video.

Hey Pal congrates on braking the 500 mark. Well done.

[displayfireworks1]

Great job on the video, it looks like that mortar performed very well. Someone new into fireworks should appreciate seeing how the High Density pipe performs with a consumer shell. When the same situation happens with 1.3 fireworks, it usually takes out a section of the rack. Here is a video of the after effects of a small salute blowing in the mortar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha32Zk_NWpM

[Palermitano2]

Hey Pal congrates on braking the 500 mark. Well done.

Thanks Bro !

Dave It looks like the plug got stuck to the bottom of the rack when the mortar exploded is that the case?

[displayfireworks1]

I am not sure what it looked like. The person that fixed it for me is a member here on the forums, if he reads this maybe he can explain what it looked like. I was ready to give it up but he fixed it for me and then pyrodirect send me a tube free of charge to replace the missing one that blew apart.

[J's12talk]

The company I shoot for had a bad batch of five inch shells out there on the fourth a couple of years ago that blew the racks apart.There were shells laying on the ground in the middle of the shoot. If you have five inch shells laying around in the middle of a shoot you had better be sweating bullets, it's not something you want to have happen. These guys were seasoned veterans and they came back green and unhappy. We.re all here to have fun but when things go wrong they really go wrong. Five inch shells can kill period.

[Pyro@Mach13]

Good video. You can see how intense the pressure from the gasses are in the way that tube bloomed. The differences in tubes has been discussed before--perhaps if Dave is up to filming it we can do a side by side test of HDPE-Fiberglass-& Cardboard tubes loaded upside down at Kellners in April. I can supply the tubes & identical canister shells.....I don't want to be anywhere near or have anything to do with PVC tubes, though & I doubt the site safety people would like that being done either...but maybe they would allow it as an educational tool since it would be a controlled test????
What do you think, Dave? It would make a good informational video.

I like the idea.... go for it.

[Pyro@Mach13]

The company I shoot for had a bad batch of five inch shells out there on the fourth a couple of years ago that blew the racks apart.There were shells laying on the ground in the middle of the shoot. If you have five inch shells laying around in the middle of a shoot you had better be sweating bullets, it's not something you want to have happen. These guys were seasoned veterans and they came back green and unhappy. We.re all here to have fun but when things go wrong they really go wrong. Five inch shells can kill period.

The two and three you used on the show I was at with you was scarey enough for me. You are a brave man!

[J's12talk]

The two and three you used on the show I was at with you was scarey enough for me. You are a brave man!

Brave, handsome and modest to. LOL!

[Pyro@Mach13]

Brave, handsome and modest to. LOL!

haha - ya right, btw missed the picnics cause I got sick for a month, I had a migraine headache for 13 straight days then on and off for another week - that stunk! Very sad I missed the picnics... I better get this back on topic.

I think a nice demo video of pvc usage would be a good thing.

[Holmes69]

I am not sure what it looked like. The person that fixed it for me is a member here on the forums, if he reads this maybe he can explain what it looked like. I was ready to give it up but he fixed it for me and then pyrodirect send me a tube free of charge to replace the missing one that blew apart.

Dave, you had put a screw through the bottom rail into the plugs to hold them in place, when the shell exploded the staples didn't hold and the tube just pulled away from the plug.

[Pyro@Mach13]

Dave, you had put a screw through the bottom rail into the plugs to hold them in place, when the shell exploded the staples didn't hold and the tube just pulled away from the plug.

That looked pretty obvious in the video. I like to keep my tubes loose for 1.4, easier to clean.

[Palermitano2]

That looked pretty obvious in the video. I like to keep my tubes loose for 1.4, easier to clean.

Gee now I wonder if the tube was loose and not nailed down if it would have jumped out of the rack? instead of causing all that damage. something we must test.....

[crackerbomb]

I'll give my vote for a testing video. If I make it to Kellners I'll donate whatever is needed. A guy I know that lives down the road always uses pvc, I told him that thats not a good idea. He told me he started with schedule 40 and they didn't last so he went to schedule 80 with not problems for 4 years. I told him he was crazy and he was going to get himself or someone else hurt. I was then told I don't have a clue because he been shooting fireworks for over ten years. I told him good luck!!!!

[Pyro Nation]

I'll give my vote for a testing video. If I make it to Kellners I'll donate whatever is needed. A guy I know that lives down the road always uses pvc, I told him that thats not a good idea. He told me he started with schedule 40 and they didn't last so he went to schedule 80 with not problems for 4 years. I told him he was crazy and he was going to get himself or someone else hurt. I was then told I don't have a clue because he been shooting fireworks for over ten years. I told him good luck!!!!



See now.... No offense to people who have been shooting fireworks for over how many years, but all that tells me is he has been lucky enough not to have a incident and really does not care about safety factor of it.... Soon you will read somewhere there was a accident with pvc and fireworks and we will get nailed with another mark against all of us.... People like that I want to slap...

[J's12talk]

The company I shoot for had a bad batch of five inch shells out there on the fourth a couple of years ago that blew the racks apart.There were shells laying on the ground in the middle of the shoot. If you have five inch shells laying around in the middle of a shoot you had better be sweating bullets, it's not something you want to have happen. These guys were seasoned veterans and they came back green and unhappy. We.re all here to have fun but when things go wrong they really go wrong. Five inch shells can kill period.

The racks that the shells were in did not have the mortars secured to the base with screws into the plugs. When the shells blew it threw the rest of the mortars all around, the shells were thrown from them and were laying all over the place. If the mortars were secured there would have been a better chance of at least some of the mortars remaining in place thus keeping the shells safe inside them.

[crackerbomb]

See now.... No offense to people who have been shooting fireworks for over how many years, but all that tells me is he has been lucky enough not to have a incident and really does not care about safety factor of it.... Soon you will read somewhere there was a accident with pvc and fireworks and we will get nailed with another mark against all of us.... People like that I want to slap...

I agree with you, but it wasn't worthe getting into it with the guy. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

[J's12talk]

See now.... No offense to people who have been shooting fireworks for over how many years, but all that tells me is he has been lucky enough not to have a incident and really does not care about safety factor of it.... Soon you will read somewhere there was a accident with pvc and fireworks and we will get nailed with another mark against all of us.... People like that I want to slap...

Well said!

[indianahx]

easy now....treading into thin ice here......:cool:

[crackerbomb]

The bad thing about this guy is that he has his teenage sons helping shoot these fireworks off at there campground. He putting his kids in danger and teaching them to use items not made for fireworks.

[J's12talk]

Nothing wrong with using pvc, I also like using glass mason jars. Momma says I'm the smart one out of the litter. Yeeeehhhaaaa!

[crackerbomb]

I like using mason jars for something else.........lol

[Pyro@Mach13]

I like using mason jars for something else.........lol

Yes, ROOTbeer! haha

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I like using mason jars for something else.........lol
We use them every year--corn, beans, red beets, pickles---oh--that isn't what you meant was it??? ROFL!

[crackerbomb]

We use them every year--corn, beans, red beets, pickles---oh--that isn't what you meant was it??? ROFL!

I think they had a tv show obout this......lol it needs more sugar

[Palermitano2]

The bad thing about this guy is that he has his teenage sons helping shoot these fireworks off at there campground. He putting his kids in danger and teaching them to use items not made for fireworks.

Dont stress you spoke your peace to the guy........when you go to the wake of one of his sons who take a piece of pvc to the juggular you can speak it again.......But dont stress people like that shouldnt be shooting fireworks. Lets face it many of us on hear are pros, or like myself maybe semi pro. this guy is a Rookie. A rookie who cannot be educated. I only consider myself semipro because Ive learned alot from guys like Dave . and the rest of you guys on here every little bit of knowledge in this hobbie can be life and limb saving so I dont care how good or green you are never stop learning.......done ranting.....

[crackerbomb]

I hear you, it just pisses me off when people teach kids wrong and it could be fatal.

[Pyro Nation]

I hear you, it just pisses me off when people teach kids wrong and it could be fatal.

It should... if it didn't I would question why it didn't..... All we can do in life is try our best to do whats right and live a good life.... We can only control our actions and not others, because of this it makes the world both good and bad...

And unfortunately saying either I hope nothing happens or ya hope something does happen has side effects... One, if nothing ever does go wrong that is awesome because no one gets hurt, but on the other hand... if someone gets hurt it would teach others that it is not ok to do it this way.... sad reality

[Chris H]

One thing I don't often see discussed is proper mortar material for each shell. I guess it is less common as anyone who doesn't actually manufacture shells would never encounter such a thing. Fuse lighters will likely only encounter single break or maybe double break in the context of peanut shells. I got an earful (maybe an eyeful as it was on a different forum?) when I mentioned that I used steel guns for some of my shells. For larger multibreak shells, steel simply becomes a requirement. You cannot safely fire them from HDPE or Fiberglass. I pointed this gentleman toward these two videos and never got a reply.
.
- Fiberglass failing miserably

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F10boI_ccTI
.
.
HDPE failing equally miserably

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid_LhHI-e8
I don't know if there is a cutoff. It's probably different for each size of mortar, and depends on the quality and upkeep of the mortar itself. A friend of mine claims he will fire any 5" shell under 10lbs (3breaks or so) from fiberglass. I saw the same shell blow out the plug in an HDPE mortar. I don't know how good said mortar was. I've also seen 8" single break canisters fired from HDPE and fiberglass. Depending on what's in there, an 8" shell can weigh in upwards of 20lbs or so. Typically I wouldn't trust it. All of these examples were buried if it wasn't obvious. Anything more than 10lbs of multibreak is going in steel if I can help it.

[Palermitano2]

The second video looks to me as if the shells didnt fit snug into the gun.

[Chris H]

I know the gentleman who built them, and I assure you that was not an issue. Excessive blow-by from a poorly fitting shell, and excessive blow-by from a displaced plug probably look pretty similar.

Out of curiosity, what would make you think it is poorly fitting? I'm used to seeing a very large fireball on the lift if the shell is too small for the gun.

[blown2bits]

Why isn't there an official safety video? Hmm. may be something I need to make and spread around online.

[Palermitano2]

I know the gentleman who built them, and I assure you that was not an issue. Excessive blow-by from a poorly fitting shell, and excessive blow-by from a displaced plug probably look pretty similar.

Out of curiosity, what would make you think it is poorly fitting? I'm used to seeing a very large fireball on the lift if the shell is too small for the gun.

I figured since the shells didnt take off out of the tube that strong and they didnt go up that high.

[Jdrobinson13]

Thank you for whoever posted my video at the beginning. I was contemplating demonstrating the effects of cardboard and fiberglass at the same time as the HDPE mortar. There is a good chance I will make this video in the near future though.

[indianahx]

Well that was me, and thanks for making the video. Welcome to the forums by the way

[Jdrobinson13]

Thank you very much Indianahx