Getting discouraged with 500g cakes that are just all big breaks

[upNdown]

Seems like 500 gram cakes lack the variety of effects found in 200g cakes
I've been doing 4th of july shows with my buddy for the past 5 years. We've learned a lot, quickly (thanks in no small part to this site and all of you.) Our show is evolving from lots of smaller cakes and a coupla few cases of shells to fewer but larger cakes and lots of shells. The biggest reasons for this (aside from the bigger stuff being more impressive) is space and fusing. We don't have a lot of space, so we put all of our stuff on a raft and float it out in the pond. Our whole show goes on a floating 8x8 footprint. And we haven't gone cobra yet - we basically do a single fuse show, with a couple of things on separate chinese units. You can see how it would be a pain in the butt to fuse 80 cakes together like that - so much more can go wrong.
This year, we're thinking a better use of our space is something like 8-10 cases of shells and 15-20 cakes. So I'm trying to keep our cakes all 500 grams. But the problem is that most 500 gram cakes do pretty much what shells do. Yes, some cakes do great things with timing and sometimes the breaks are prettier, but they're also smaller breaks, lower breaks, quieter breaks, and a lot more expensive. Anyway, that's my perception - I'm not bashing a cake like Gorilla Warfare, and it's not really something I'm looking to argue. My point is, I'm looking for 500 gram cakes that do something totally different than what cannister shells do. And you find that in the smaller cakes, like cool noises https://youtu.be/RpnsMq7f6Wc or cool effects https://youtu.be/LCydUXJQ72Q or cool spirally things during lifts https://youtu.be/xydtr2dQsjk - it seems like the only time I find different effects like these in 500 gram cakes, they're just part of some variety show cake like one minute more or something like that, where the effects are smaller like 200 gram cakes.
Now I feel like I'm babbling on and maybe just complaining. And yes, there are plenty of great 500 gram cakes that do cool things with directionals and comets (and I'll use a few of those), and plenty of great zipper cakes and I'll use a couple of those. But I'd love to find more 500 gram cakes that do interesting effects, but bigger. Rip Rap, for example - that's a cool effect - great sound you don't hear in many cakes. But it's like 120 small shots - it's like a 200 gram cake, but longer, and ultimately kind of disappointing. Why can't they make that effect bigger and louder and more impressive and just have 15 or 20 shots big impressive, instead of 120 boring little ones? https://youtu.be/OJaik7zs_1k
Is this a valid complaint? I feel like I'm looing for things that don't exist, and I just don't understand why.

Bottom line, I'm not looking for 500g cakes that are better than shells, I'm looking for 500g cakes that are DIFFERENT than shells. And I'm not finding a lot.

[gecko2015]

I think it's a valid complaint IMO. I've had the same experience as you. The type of effect is just as important to me as how large the effect is (if not more important in some cases). Seeing the same aerial effects, but different sizes or different pacing gets repetitive fast in longer shows; and many 500g cakes focus too much on trying to be the loudest, biggest, or having the most shots (which they often fail at one or all); which is fine as that's what most people want. But it sure makes it a pain putting together a show when the market is over-saturated with this attempted goal. This will most likely be an unpopular opinion, but it's why I don't care too much for Brothers when I'm looking for a unique 500g cake. Do they have good cakes? Absolutely. Do I buy them? Yes. Are they unique and different than most other 500g cakes? No. It seems like most of their cakes try to pack as many shots into a 500g cake as they can with no emphasis on unique effects - unless it's a fan cake which is not what we're talking about here. Same thing with Gorilla Warfare. Yes, it's a very good cake, but it's not particularly unique other than it being a good finale cake due to it's fast pacing. But even then, the size of the shots are just okay. They're not small, but they're also not huge.

Here's what I've found that I've used in my shows that has worked for me and maybe it'll help you:

Neon Fireworks - has GREAT 500g cakes tailored to specific effects and/or colors you might be looking for. They have 500g cakes of single colors, all whistlers, all comets, multi-color comets, all mines, you name it. You can find their YouTube channel here of all their products: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCweKxU6DsxNWg4_tL7ghmTQ/videos.
Racoon Fireworks - In my opinion, this is the best consumer firework manufacture when looking for unique effects. Their cakes are some of the most unique cakes I've personally seen and my interest is always peeked to click on a video of theirs when I'm not sure what it is. They have cakes that mimic a butterfly, they often utilize whistlers, comets, mines, various angles, aerial rings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zFLJt1m7q8), comet crossettes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp24N_Pa4CM), you name it. Most of my order this year consisted of a majority of their product, but unfortunately I had to drop most of it and change it to something else due to stock issues.

Those two brands can typically be purchased wholesale and my go-to when I want something different in a 500g cake.

My last go-to is SkyKing fireworks. They're not the best on price and they don't ship, but they're under-rated in my opinion. Yeah, their "buy-one-get-two free" is a bit gimmicky, but compared to the only other local place I've got around me (Jake's Fireworks), when you do the math it still beats them on price and selection. I almost never see them discussed in these threads, but they have some VERY unique 500g (and 200g) cakes I don't see these other 'big-named' consumer-favorites doing.

I used this firework (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVuuA5Eqz7g) in my show last year from them and holy crap the video doesn't do it justice. At the 0:26s mark you can see the shells swirl like what you're looking for and they went higher than ALL my other fireworks I used that night, including my 5" shells! To top it off, the finale shot on that cake went even higher than that! My audience immediately went wild when the finale row was shot on that cake.

While there's plenty more examples I could use, I'll name one more just for my point (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CIKZnL3TsE). The different effects, timing, and angles on this cake is just amazing. The video is pretty accurate to the sound and effects that you'll see and hear when shooting it.

It's just another reason I think they're under-rated. I've used about 1/4 or more of their cakes in my shows from them for 3 years now just because of the difficulty of finding cakes that are as unique as theirs. Also, their videos have always been accurate down to the second in timing/pacing and effects.

TLDR - I think you have a valid complaint as I've experienced the same. But if you can find companies that sell Neon Fireworks, Raccoon, or if you can make a trip to Sky King; your complaint will be resolved.

[AxeElf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRrM23ovbys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhsDOaeHe6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfqGWQbo77I

[Scotty Rockets]

https://youtu.be/wz3F_I0wR8Q

https://youtu.be/ZOkwSoMvEP0

https://youtu.be/scM-4cE6DEE

https://youtu.be/faJH4ziGsUY

https://youtu.be/SB7oCP1xj6Q

https://youtu.be/u4frbYgqvQs

https://youtu.be/vDrsPi6StC8


I can go on and on, there are plenty you just have to look harder.

[PyroFL]

I noticed this a few years ago and was just as frustrated as you.

Here is what my answer was, mix and match 200g cakes. I would say a 1/3 of our show is now 200g cakes as I get a better mix and it’s not for the most part the just another rapper. This also seems to help a lot.

Do you have any photos or videos of your raft? Am thinking about doing that too

Thank u

[Wholesale Fireworks]

Keep in mind gang...not everyone is as advanced as you all are. The majority of customers who are buying a 9 shot cake are the retail customer who comes into the store and says I want the biggest and loudest item you have. They don't care about what the item even does. They just want big and loud. The majority of consumer stores in the states are selling to that exact retail customer. You all are a rare breed and a niche market. As the hobbyist consumer base grows I am sure we will see some changes in the 9 shot cakes but for now....they are a favorite of the guy who wants to have something bigger and louder than his neighbor.

[displayfireworks1]

Also keep in mind most fireworks audiences are not as sophisticated and advanced as we are either. I know on the display end of things they say , the audience usually just remembers the beginning and the finale. I find that even on a small short backyard display , if I make a short intense finale everyone seems happy.
On a side note I read elsewhere some posters are not please with these consumer multiple break shells. I suggest to shoot them in flights on fast fuse to make a finale. They are good if you have tight clearance.

[DavidthePyro]

Great point with the shells. Especially with low inventory this year, I'm thinking I should be more flexible than the typical 4 or 5 varieties I buy of 60g canister shells... Im thinking some of the double break shells wrapped as cans would probably be a good idea since I usually send up 200 in 10 seconds at the end of my display.

[upNdown]

I appreciate all the feedback.
And yes, it's always all about the finale

[Scotty Rockets]

With a little ingenuity you can take multiple 200 gram cakes and make a large cake by fusing techniques

Quick match to fire all cakes together

5659

Or fuse the last shot to the next cake by poking the tubes with a brass poke.
How to poke cakes for this...
https://youtu.be/W6MnnS4yhfo

[jamisonlm3]

Keep in mind gang...not everyone is as advanced as you all are. The majority of customers who are buying a 9 shot cake are the retail customer who comes into the store and says I want the biggest and loudest item you have. They don't care about what the item even does. They just want big and loud. The majority of consumer stores in the states are selling to that exact retail customer. You all are a rare breed and a niche market. As the hobbyist consumer base grows I am sure we will see some changes in the 9 shot cakes but for now....they are a favorite of the guy who wants to have something bigger and louder than his neighbor.Years back, I was pretty much the perfect example of this. I did a bit of research before, but when I went to go buy, I got the biggest thing I could. I ignored pretty much everything else. Back then, I always asked myself why even look at the smaller stuff. Only later did I start looking at it and trying it that I realized how much of an idiot I was.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I usually use nothing but cans for my finale. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find any when I placed my order this year, so I wound up with multi-break ball shells. So instead of using the .4 sec fast fuse like I normally use, I'm going to have to use the pink perfect fuse that burns slower. I'm expecting a finale that's just ask intense, but lasts twice as long. We'll see. I was planning on slowing down the sky puke this year anyway. This should be a pretty nice test to see how different ball shells are in a finale vs cans.

[upNdown]

I usually use nothing but cans for my finale. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find any when I placed my order this year, so I wound up with multi-break ball shells. So instead of using the .4 sec fast fuse like I normally use, I'm going to have to use the pink perfect fuse that burns slower. I'm expecting a finale that's just ask intense, but lasts twice as long. We'll see. I was planning on slowing down the sky puke this year anyway. This should be a pretty nice test to see how different ball shells are in a finale vs cans.

I'm not sure if you just didn't explain you plan completely, but it seems like there's something wrong with your math. At 10 seconds per foot, pink fuse is about 25 times slower than grey. So even if you're using half as many tubes (because you have double breaks) all things being equal, your finale should still be something like 10x as long, not twice as fast, right?
I buy retail, so I've had no problem getting the cans this year. But since we're shooting more shells overall, we figured we'd mix in some balls, for effect and to save money.
But regarding ball shells, here's a test I just shot, Saturday, which I also posted in that other thread about 500 gram cakes. Hopefully your doubles aren't Goliaths, because the goliath single and double both broke too low. Again, apologies that the video is so slow - no wasting precious fuse on tests, so everything is hand-lit.
https://youtu.be/0aFHc0eomrQ

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I'm not sure if you just didn't explain you plan completely, but it seems like there's something wrong with your math.

Yeah I wasn't intending to be scientific. Just trying to make a general point that because I'm using multi-break shells instead of cans, I'm going to use slower burning fuse to cut down on the sky puke effect.

[upNdown]

Here?s a few pictures. What we?ve done in the past is fuse most of our stuff on smaller boards on shore. Then carry the boards to
The raft in shallow water, finish all the fusing, then tow it out to deeper waters and anchor it on 2 or 3 corners.
As you can see, the raft is in sad shape now, after a few years out in the elements. We?ll try something different, this year.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5678&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5677&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5676&stc=1

[PyroFL]

Thanks for the photos and it’s given me a few ideas I may have to try out next year on our big pond.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

See if you can find an old pontoon boat somewhere for cheap or free. Rip off the top and use the platform for your boards. My buddy has two he uses for his show every year. Works great.