First Pyro-Musical Input Welcomed

[PyroFL]

Hello everyone

Just finished up my editing of music and looking for some feedback from others that have done pyro-musicals before.

I believe I?ve done all my highs and lows correctly to build the show with intensity with also having slower times before the big ending.

I am around 24-25 minutes show depending on how long the final fuse?s out to be

Music pick:

- Star Spangled Banner
- O? Fortuna
- Are Your Ready AC/DC
- Celebration Times Kool and the Gang
- Living in America James Brown
- Born in the USA The Boss
- Rock in the USA Mellencamp
- God Bless America
- Firecracker Josh Turner
- American Sprit Thomas Spirit
- Party in the USA Miley Cyrus
- Thunder Imagine Dragons
- America Woman Lenny Kravitz
- Thunderstruck AC/DC
- Smoke on the water REMIX Hell boy

Thank you ...

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Dude! I think you have more songs in one show than I've had in my past 5 shows! Wow. Good on you! I wish I had that kind of creativity and talent to figure out how to put all that together so it made sense. Most impressive. Looking forward to seeing the show video now!

I was just over in Lake Whales on Saturday doing some shooting at a friends house. I thought about calling you up to see if I could stop by and say hi, but it was a short notice kind of thing and I didn't want to no-notice you like that. With any luck I'll start digging those tubes out and set them aside for your friend. Still way early, but I need to make some space in there so I have room to work.

[esgrillo]

PyroFL -

Some input, keep in mind this just my opinion and everyone has one but just wanted to share some things I have learned the hard way over the years.

First I think your show is too long. I really like the 16-20 minute range. People will start to lose interest the longer it gets especially if it not very highly scripted.

I think you have way too many songs. If have my count right you'll average a little more than 1.5 minutes per title... that is going to be a lot of music changes in a very short period of time. Honeslty I would cut it to 4 or 5.... plus you don't want to use every good fireworks song the first show lol. I've used several of those and I know they can work well.

Also an FYI, AC/DC and YouTube do not play nice. You will get a copyright violation for any AC/DC song. It may not happen right away but eventually their algorithm will catch it and force you to silence that section of the music. It is a real PIA. You can always post on Vimeo or another platform that does not have music police on it. Ugetube is one that will be OK as well.

Are you planning to use a fuse only show or are you using a firing system too?

Good luck, it is a learning process. I'm not trying to discourage in any way... just passing on some of my mistakes lol.

[PyroFL]

Rick:

No problem with short notice if your in the area but unfortunately am still on the road for another 2 weeks doing the final four at the moment. Got out of going to the masters THANKFULLY!!! I’ll keep you posted when I get back in town.

As for songs, after we set up as long as there is no emergency I have a lot of time to kill and sitting around for about 100 hours a week at work ... I needed to find something to do ... so why not edit music and why maybe I ended up with so many songs.

Ed:

All input is welcomed and you can always learn something from someone if people are willing to listen.

Your correct on timing and I see your point about doing 4-5 songs and that was my first thought until I did the math on what I needed for cues. My dilemma is I only have 216 cues using for the first time the cobra system and my budget has been spent. Which means I can do a little creativeness with timing but most of it’s going to have to be cakes with about the same timing as the music with a few comets and mines here and there to go with the music.

Am not doing a full pyro-musical as I don’t have the cues, so it will be a mix of pyro-musical and fireworks with music unit I can get in the 450-600 cue range in the next year or 2. I could be 100% wrong on that but it seems I need to double my cues to get a good pyro-musical and triple that to make a great one. Until then this was my rookie answer for having 216 cues but please advise.

Am going to take your advise about cutting some song(s) out and adding effects to a shorter show. Last year show was 18 minutes and I had quite a few people tell me they wish it would had been a little longer. Am more thinking now 20 plus the National anthem which will have only fountains for 90 seconds.

Thank you to both gentlemen

[Big Worm]

Ed is spot on! IMO about 15 min is what i find enjoyable in backyard pyromusicals. I have yet to shoot a pyromusical, but i did invest in a COBRA this year so that i can control the cadence better. With out music i try to keep my shows to 10 min. Looking forward to your show!!

[esgrillo]

Ed:

All input is welcomed and you can always learn something from someone if people are willing to listen.

Your correct on timing and I see your point about doing 4-5 songs and that was my first thought until I did the math on what I needed for cues. My dilemma is I only have 216 cues using for the first time the cobra system and my budget has been spent. Which means I can do a little creativeness with timing but most of it’s going to have to be cakes with about the same timing as the music with a few comets and mines here and there to go with the music.

Am not doing a full pyro-musical as I don’t have the cues, so it will be a mix of pyro-musical and fireworks with music unit I can get in the 450-600 cue range in the next year or 2. I could be 100% wrong on that but it seems I need to double my cues to get a good pyro-musical and triple that to make a great one. Until then this was my rookie answer for having 216 cues but please advise.

Am going to take your advise about cutting some song(s) out and adding effects to a shorter show. Last year show was 18 minutes and I had quite a few people tell me they wish it would had been a little longer. Am more thinking now 20 plus the National anthem which will have only fountains for 90 seconds.

Thank you to both gentlemen

Lol, dilemma only 216 cues for your first show lol... Most new cobra owners would be drooling to have that many cues for their first show lol. I had 36 cues for my first cobra pyromusical.. and no audiobox lol, that was fun.

That is a HUGE amount of cues for a show that does not include single shots! You can fill the sky for 20-30 seconds with 3 cues on a 3 position show without scab or slats. It sounds like you will have a lot of product going off at the same time to burn through that many cues and just using cakes. I would be curious to understand what you have planned for product/times. I had about 540 cues in my last show and would guess 90+% of those were single shots. (slices, comets, mines, gerbs, strobes, etc...)

He is that first show 36 cues lol (and a mile of scab wire) lol. https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/304375028

[PyroFL]

I?ll have to be honest Ed, technically this is ALL your fault!! If you didn?t make such amazing shows I wouldn?t have to spend all this money on cobra gear and fire machines you told me about ... LOL

In my Arsenal I have for 3 stations:

24 No/Low noise fountains
40 slices
270 mines and comets
8 Water Cakes
60 200g Cakes
18 350g Cakes
60-80 500g Cakes (I have over 200 coming to pick from the rest will go to friends after I pick what I need)
432 Mortars

I know am jumping in with both feet with cobra gear but after the last 2 years doing all my timing by fuse only for a 15-18 minute show for weeks I had to cut my setup time way down. Saved for a year and got most of it on Black Friday and ordering one more 72M Friday to give me 216.

Am sure you remember my last show with the great camera angle ... LOL

Just looking to make it even better this year with music and timing with my new cobra system

https://youtu.be/pU2cBHfBttU

[PyroFL]

Forgot to add to my list

15 - 9 on a board

[esgrillo]

gotcha... I see you do you have lots of single shots... it will be good.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick:

No problem with short notice if your in the area but unfortunately am still on the road for another 2 weeks doing the final four at the moment. Got out of going to the masters THANKFULLY!!! I’ll keep you posted when I get back in town.

Got out of going to the Masters?! OMG! Next time you can give me the tutorial and I'll go for you! :cool: I'd love to go to the Masters!

As for your cue count... I have 12 of the 18M's so I also have 216 cues. With the LiPo battery option you can reliably fire 6 items per cue. That means 1296 items! That, in technical terms, is an ass-ton!! When you get up into the rarified air that Ed breathes, that's probably going to be just enough to get by. For the rest of us mere mortals, that's still an ass-ton!

Having said that.... Depending on your show layout and firing module type, the wiring could get really interesting if you were to try and fire 6 items per cue. So I can totally see going 1 for 1 when you have a 72M. So what's my point? Just trying to say that you probably have more cues than you realize. If you're willing to get a little creative with the wiring, you might be able to save yourself some $$ on more Cobra gear.

[PyroFL]

Rick

I have a few ideas with a closed relay using 232 I would like to experiment with that I think would work. Making a programmable sequencer and for penny's on the dollar it wouldn’t cost to much to build.

It would take a cue from Cobra and start it’s pre-program sequence that you had programmed much like the CSC software. I’ve seen them on the market for $80 but I think I can build it for 15-20 dollars or less ... I think ... still need to look into some IC to see pricing, D9 and a few parts and your good to go

As for the 72M I will be setting it up for 3 locations to fire 2-3 locations at the same time.

72M to 18 Slats to MJG - Left - Right at 10 meters plus MJG 3 meter plus
72M to MJG - Center at 5 meters

Thinking I maybe have to upgrade to a battery pack now ... thanks

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Lol.... Don't blame me! Sounds like you have a good handle on your requirements. Also sounds like a nice project to do on the road when you have spare time. Not sure I'd envy you trying to explain any of that to a TSA agent, but.... :confused:

[esgrillo]

Pyro... If I am understanding your spacing correct, if you can space out your platforms it would help the look of your show. 10m is super close especially if you are doing any slices. I use the longest slat cables cobra sells (25M) for my left center right platform spacing and I still get slice overlap when just firing left and right.

[PyroFL]

Ed

You would be correct on spacing.

My shoot site until next year is only 350’ wide over a pond. So with 125’ safety area on both sides that only gives me 100’ for a setup area.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5653&stc=1

[MontanaMike]

I think you have way too many songs. If have my count right you'll average a little more than 1.5 minutes per title...

I'd have to disagree on that, with qualifications. If you're a good music editor, you can make a song shorter without hurting it. My shows always run around 18 to 20 minutes and my record (so far) is 23 songs, with an average of around 16 songs or so. My segments range from about 30 seconds to about a minute ten seconds. The skill is in figuring out where to edit, and how to get in and out of each song. You can't just cut a song off after a minute, the edit has to make sense. I have to keep reminding myself, that nobody is there to listen to music -- but my goal is always to wind up with a music medley that I wouldn't mind hearing without the fireworks.

And, totally agreed on YouTube. Facebook is equally as bad (maybe worse). On our show last year, about 60 or 70% of the music was cut out on Facebook.

[PyroFL]

@ MontanaMike

I believe its preference.

I?ve seen some amazing shows with full songs and songs edited down and both seem to work. I?ve also watched pro-shows with $100,000+ budgets and seen both done and it seems to go over well.

Like you were saying it goes back to editing, transitions and flow of the music to make it work or not work.

Luckily, I?ve done head of house audio engineering for some International names, worked in the studio, helped mix a few albums and done some DJ-ing. Knowing where to cut, fade and loop can change the feel of the show.

On the psychological part of it, it enhancers the show with Visual and audio making it easier for people to recall and spark emotions.

?do you remember when X song started? ?I liked at the end of X song? most crowds are not going to say ?do you remember the V shape tiger tail red comet? or ?I really enjoyed the Crossette combination they did this year?

But at the end of the day I believe it goes back to personal of what works for you.

In addition I wouldn?t do the same kind of show for a bunch of Pyros as I would do for a civilian crowd ... there just not going to get it