A New ATF Type 54 Licensee Hello

[talkoe@gmail.com]

This is my first posting hailing from the Cleveland OH area and feel compelled to introduce myself after watching so many of Dave?s videos and also pass along a couple tips. I took Dave?s advise, bought his ATF-54 application kit and applied for the license. I?m happy to report I just got the certification in the mail. The videos in the kit were great and thorough, in Dave?s straightforward style which I find appealing as all of his videos.

My ATF agents? interview was prearranged by telephone and for the most part went well but there were a couple items that needed some clarification which I think some of you might find helpful:

I had answered NO to Item 13, ?is a state or local license required?? knowing that I do need Ohio licenses and approvals to put a match to a fireworks fuse. The video had mentioned this could go either way depending on the ATF interviewer and in my case inferred I should get the OH license before this federal. I did not want to delay Type 54 license to go through the quite involved and lengthy Ohio Exhibiter?s license process. On the Ohio application I knew it asks if the applicant has a federal license so I explained I felt it was a chicken or the egg first situation. The ATF agreed but wanted me to answer #13 ?yes? which I changed and referenced ?Ohio Exhibitor? with a ?TBD? application date.

#19 and #20 asks where I plan to purchase and transport the [fireworks]. I don?t have any immediate location plans and being situated just outside Cleveland east, I simply entered ?Tri-State Area?. That was not specific enough for the agent so I entered MI-OH-PA and that went through.

The toughest process of the application was the contingency plan. I don?t have much of a pyrotechnic network of associate businesses yet and I had stuck out with cold calls to likely northeast Ohio sources. I?ve since learned Ohio doesn?t allow even ATF approved magazines be constructed. Another anal Ohio fireworks set of laws such as not allowing delivery (online ordering) of 1.4 product. It has to be purchased from an Ohio retailer then expected to be transported out of state to shoot within 48 hours (yea-right - my rant!).

Dave?s video shows some contingency letter examples and one of them is from Ace Pyro. If you check their web site, you can find detailed Type 54 application instructions which I found to be a good compliment and affirmation with Dave?s video. I called Ace Pyro and had a great conversation about their support for the pyrotechnic hobby, one of which providing me with a letter of contingency from their business to send with the Type 54 application.

Going back to the interview, the agent questioned the large distance of the contingency location and would not accept a plan to shoot off all the product to avoid returns for storage. Other possibilities happen to be a large distances from my location as well . That and a couple other truths and half truths were enough to convince the interviewer to relent and recommend the permit submittal ?up the ATF chain of approval?.

So persevere and good luck to all!

[displayfireworks1]

Thank you for that feedback. Also, thanks to the companies that are part of pyrotalk for helping the ever growing advanced fireworks enthusiast get ATF licensed. This entire ATF Display Fireworks procedure is a Federal process, irrespective of what "State" you live in. We remind and work with the ATF from time to time when a legitimate fireworks hobbyist seeks to do things in the proper manner.
In addition, we also remind ourselves with the recent incident in Ontario California, illegal storage of 1.3 fireworks in large quantities has great potential for bad consequences .

[Lighttravler]

I’m here in GA and that is part of the Type 54 application I stuck on right at this moment. Who would I get the contingency letter from before I send off my application

[displayfireworks1]

I’m here in GA and that is part of the Type 54 application I stuck on right at this moment. Who would I get the contingency letter from before I send off my application

You send me an email when you are part way through Disc#1 with the same questions you posting here because I did not answer the email in 10 minutes. Finish the watching both DVD and chill the hell out a minute. We are not going to type 57 paragraphs. Watch both DVD's and get an understanding of the process first.

[Lighttravler]

Where all of that come from? I just so happen log back on to this site and so happen saw the guy post this an I was like I just had this ? Today. So I thought maybe he would have told me something. I was not trying to post 57 paragraphs bc as you can see I only post 4 since 2018. Dave I did not know you were like this I just ask a simple ? Not into all the key board warrior talk. Just trying to get some understanding. But I will finish the 2 disc but he seems to have the same issue after both DVDs.

[newpyro]

Talkoe: Kellner Fireworks in PA works for cleveland ATF. Good people there.

[displayfireworks1]

Don't think the ATF in Ohio was always so accommodating. Its a long story but it all started with an ATF license applicant about 9 years ago that refused to withdraw his application in Ohio and about 90 days past his application date, it all changed for everyone in Ohio moving forward. Some occasional out of state usage and open shoot nights at a 1.3 fireworks distributors goes a long way towards becoming ATF licensed to cryptically explain it all.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/shopping.php

[newpyro]

I used Dave's dvd's also. No issues.

[DoverGuy09]

I am set up to have my interview this week for obtaining my Type 54 for Ohio as well. The agent has already said to fire off 1.3 in Ohio that I need to have an Ohio exhibitors license. I explained I’m not doing anything for commerce and is strictly as a hobbyist. Any tips or pointers to get through this interview process?

[displayfireworks1]

Not sure if your purchased my ATF DVD application package or not. In the DVD’s I explain the checklist line by line the ATF Inspector will review and have you sign acknowledging you understand. Historically looking at Ohio, the ATF would try to convince applicants you needed an Ohio State Exhibitors License as a prerequisite BEFORE applying for an ATF Type 54 license. Until, one hobbyist applicant refused to do it. Then, at the time, the Ohio ATF tried to VERBALLY tell the applicant to withdraw the application. Then one applicant refused. If you sign to withdraw the application. They didn’t deny it, you withdrew it. See how this works? After he refused and forced the ATF, at the end of the 90 day period maximum period to make a WRITTEN decision he was granted a license to purchase 1.3 fireworks because they did not have cause to stop it. That one applicant back in day paved the way for all advancing 1.3 fireworks hobbyist going forward. Not only in Ohio, but multiple other states.
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Since then, the ATF has recognized the advancing not for profit fireworks hobbyist applicant. Again, historically it is all thanks to those few initial applicant in not only Ohio but New York, Texas, Tennessee and a few other states that listened to my advice and refused to sign to withdraw their application forcing the ATF at the time to make a WRITTEN determination decision on their application for licensure. They have no cause, it is shall issue license if the Federal requirements are met irrespective of what State you live in.
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Fast forward to today, while the requirement to purchase 1.3 fireworks is a Federal procedure, the fireworks ATF Inspectors seem to be working in cahoots with local and state people. They may ask you questions about a CDL license, or if you are running a home business etc. For you in Ohio, last I heard, they are going to feel a little more comfortable if you doing some out of state fireworks shooting in addition to not for profit displays.
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Now imagine yourself as an ATF Inspector coming to interview you and granting you explosive privileges. With the last few terrorist attacks on our country involving pyrotechnic products. Imagine the position they find they themselves in? They are granting you purchase privileges to purchase all the 1.3 products you want. Keeping that in mind you want to certainly make them well aware of who you are and what you plan to do.
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Again historically, guess who is upset and thought they could stop all of these not for profit advanced fireworks enthusiast from obtaining their own ATF license to purchase 1.3 fireworks? It was not the ATF, they adjusted how they handle these types of applications going forward. There was and continues to be about 20 people. Now, through attrition it is down to about 8 or 9 last a counted. Who spent about the last 14 years of their life either trying to stop all of this or are in some denial of it. I am personally glad to have been part of this and will continue to promote the advancing fireworks enthusiast.

[mattfr12]

This is my first posting hailing from the Cleveland OH area and feel compelled to introduce myself after watching so many of Dave?s videos and also pass along a couple tips. I took Dave?s advise, bought his ATF-54 application kit and applied for the license. I?m happy to report I just got the certification in the mail. The videos in the kit were great and thorough, in Dave?s straightforward style which I find appealing as all of his videos.

My ATF agents? interview was prearranged by telephone and for the most part went well but there were a couple items that needed some clarification which I think some of you might find helpful:

I had answered NO to Item 13, ?is a state or local license required?? knowing that I do need Ohio licenses and approvals to put a match to a fireworks fuse. The video had mentioned this could go either way depending on the ATF interviewer and in my case inferred I should get the OH license before this federal. I did not want to delay Type 54 license to go through the quite involved and lengthy Ohio Exhibiter?s license process. On the Ohio application I knew it asks if the applicant has a federal license so I explained I felt it was a chicken or the egg first situation. The ATF agreed but wanted me to answer #13 ?yes? which I changed and referenced ?Ohio Exhibitor? with a ?TBD? application date.

#19 and #20 asks where I plan to purchase and transport the [fireworks]. I don?t have any immediate location plans and being situated just outside Cleveland east, I simply entered ?Tri-State Area?. That was not specific enough for the agent so I entered MI-OH-PA and that went through.

The toughest process of the application was the contingency plan. I don?t have much of a pyrotechnic network of associate businesses yet and I had stuck out with cold calls to likely northeast Ohio sources. I?ve since learned Ohio doesn?t allow even ATF approved magazines be constructed. Another anal Ohio fireworks set of laws such as not allowing delivery (online ordering) of 1.4 product. It has to be purchased from an Ohio retailer then expected to be transported out of state to shoot within 48 hours (yea-right - my rant!).

Dave?s video shows some contingency letter examples and one of them is from Ace Pyro. If you check their web site, you can find detailed Type 54 application instructions which I found to be a good compliment and affirmation with Dave?s video. I called Ace Pyro and had a great conversation about their support for the pyrotechnic hobby, one of which providing me with a letter of contingency from their business to send with the Type 54 application.

Going back to the interview, the agent questioned the large distance of the contingency location and would not accept a plan to shoot off all the product to avoid returns for storage. Other possibilities happen to be a large distances from my location as well . That and a couple other truths and half truths were enough to convince the interviewer to relent and recommend the permit submittal ?up the ATF chain of approval?.

So persevere and good luck to all!

congratulations. You should have some 1.3 dealers near you, i was basing this of mentor Ohio. As long as you are within a reasonable distance from them you should have no problem gaining contingency storage. One thing I think people miss out on is it doesn't even necessarily have to be a fireworks company to offer contingency all though it is rare. I went to a local explosive company and worked a deal to use magazine storage with them for years before i had my own.