Cameras you use

[Greenville Pyro]

Looking at what types of angles/cameras to shoot for next years show. I'm thinking I'd love to hire someone to do a drone shot. I can set up a tripod but what camera should I put there? What do you guys use? Right now I've got an iphone 12 pro. Should I look into a GoPro Hero9 or even a dedicated video camera like the Cannon M50? Thoughts?

[jamisonlm3]

The gopros from the hero 4 and up are decent for recording fireworks. I use the hero 4 black because it does 4k. Used ones can also be picked up for fairly cheap. I've recorded shows from around 100ft away and was able to get everything. You can get quite a bit in frame at the widest FOV with them, but the horizon starts to curve. Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtF44yaZB3g) one of the last shows I recorded. You can see what I mean in that video. It doesn't bother me, but it may for you. Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting the M50. You could get a used gopro and spend the rest of that money on fireworks. You should also try recording some firewroks with your iphone. I don't know much about them, but it may do what you need. Whatever you do, I wouldn't record in any FPS faster than 30.

[ssmith512]

The gopros from the hero 4 and up are decent for recording fireworks. I use the hero 4 black because it does 4k. Used ones can also be picked up for fairly cheap. I've recorded shows from around 100ft away and was able to get everything. You can get quite a bit in frame at the widest FOV with them, but the horizon starts to curve. Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtF44yaZB3g) one of the last shows I recorded. You can see what I mean in that video. It doesn't bother me, but it may for you. Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting the M50. You could get a used gopro and spend the rest of that money on fireworks. You should also try recording some firewroks with your iphone. I don't know much about them, but it may do what you need. Whatever you do, I wouldn't record in any FPS faster than 30.

Nice!!

May I ask approximately how far was the camera from the fireworks launch point? Reason I ask, I used a GoPro Hero 3 last year, and even though the camera was 250ft from the launch point, if I had the horizon in the frame (and I needed the horizon as there was ground frontage effects) I would miss the NOAB shells which would break above the FOV in the camera. So I too am looking for a better filming solution.

Thanks!

[jamisonlm3]

For that particular show, I think I put my gopro right about 125ft back. I angled it up to where the horizon was very low. What resolution and FOV were you recording in?

[tmwjr]

Whatever you do, I wouldn't record in any FPS faster than 30.

Why do you say that FPS? Just curious. I don't know much about this stuff.

[ssmith512]

For that particular show, I think I put my gopro right about 125ft back. I angled it up to where the horizon was very low. What resolution and FOV were you recording in?

Thanks. I was shooting 1080 @ 30fps. The Hero 3 White I used has no options to change FOV or ISO. Maybe I just need to upgrade to a newer model GoPro? I was just disappointed I missed the big breaks from the NOAB's that ended up out of the camera frame.

Thanks!

[rfgonzo]

I used a gopro hero 7 black last year for the first time and was happy with the camera. You can see the footage in my signature below.

[jamisonlm3]

Why do you say that FPS? Just curious. I don't know much about this stuff.It basically makes your video darker. You make it harder to get or even loose finer details because of it. It's supposed to be closer to what your own eyes see too.


Thanks. I was shooting 1080 @ 30fps. The Hero 3 White I used has no options to change FOV or ISO. Maybe I just need to upgrade to a newer model GoPro? I was just disappointed I missed the big breaks from the NOAB's that ended up out of the camera frame.

Thanks!On my hero 4 blacks, I can enable protune. That lets me manually set the FOV and other things to what I want. Looking at the manual for yours, it looks like it records 1080p with a medium FOV. That's pretty restricting and I'm not suprised you didn't get them. The FOVs are all just cropped from the widest one. Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Lbe0Vm_YM) a video showing what I mean. You can see how much more the larger FOVs can get vs. medium. This is one reason why I like the old hero 4 blacks in addition to the 4k recording. Newer ones can do that and more, but I'm content the two I have now.

[WithReport]

I have a Hero 6, Hero 6 and a couple of Sessions - most of my videos turn out pretty good.

I've stuck with 1080p - simple due to file size.

I stay with 30fps or 25fps for file size. I may go to 60fps if I plan on a slow playback for some reason.

I by no means am knowledgeable with cameras, but I've taken some seminars on filming fireworks and I think most of my videos turn out OK

If you are using a gopro, out of the box, they will not take the best videos for fireworks. Here is what I'm usually setting things to.



1080p 25fps PAL,
Field of View Wide
Stabilization Off
Protune On
White balance 3000K (or whatever is close to it)
ISO Limit 400 (sometimes 400-800, I've been playing around with the min-max settings).
Exposure Compensation 0 to +2



Curious as to what other's suggest.

Here is some recent vids with these gopro settings:

(note, this one shows a simulation of part of the show, too. Note, there was some free manually firing over the main show going on, too)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqTnjgcrh6M

(Hero 6. 2nd and 3rd cameras are Hero Sessions)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znkkiYg4b8


(Hero 6. This was just humorous)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyZ0wlYvKWg

[Scotty Rockets]

Recently at Sky Wars I filmed with a gopro 7 black 2.7k linear with a 400iso limit. the results...
https://youtu.be/zWAgMnvaeVU

[Rick_In_Tampa]

GoPro Hero 5 Session. Does a good job getting everything in the shot, but even though my left and right boards are 75' apart, in the video they look more like 20' apart. I'm not looking to win any Academy Awards, so it's good enough for what I need it to do. I think it also does a really nice job on the large shoots they do at PGI.

[esgrillo]

gopro... several of them

[Greenville Pyro]

GoPro sounds like the resounding winner!

[Crush630]

Keep in mind, Amazon has LOTS of action camera's that are MUCH less expensive VS a GoPro. Many have better resolution than GoPro's at a fraction of the price.

[ssmith512]

Question for you GoPro guys....will a gopro captures the horizon and say 3" shells breaking 300ft in the sky in the frame with the camera 250ft from the launch point?

[WithReport]

Keep in mind, Amazon has LOTS of action camera's that are MUCH less expensive VS a GoPro. Many have better resolution than GoPro's at a fraction of the price.

Yes, but proceed with caution. I purchased two knock-offs ~5 years ago. I was unimpressed. The image was noisy and discolored. I did some research at the time and what I choose was well recommended.

I'm absolutely sure there are some good ones out there and I must have picked poorly.

[WithReport]

Question for you GoPro guys....will a gopro captures the horizon and say 3" shells breaking 300ft in the sky in the frame with the camera 250ft from the launch point?

Depends on which camera and which setting you use; e.g., Linear, Wide, Super View, and aspect ratio

I quickly found a post online that said the gopro 7 vertical Angle of View in 16x9 ratio is 55.2 deg for Linear and 69.5 deg for Wide (I'm just assuming those results from a quick search are correct - you can verify if you want).

So, ......... break out the trig functions.


http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5429&stc=1


Linear
250ft x Tangent(55.2 deg) = 360ft

With only 350ft vertical, you would probably clip the break.


Wide
250ft x Tangent(69.5 deg) =669 ft

With a 69 deg angle it should easily capture it in 669 ft. Which is my experience and I'm sure a few others will attest to as well.



Also keep in mind, you may want to have the some of the foreground in vide for perspective and the camera may be on a tripod- all things further reducing what what you will capture in the sky.

[jamisonlm3]

Question for you GoPro guys....will a gopro captures the horizon and say 3" shells breaking 300ft in the sky in the frame with the camera 250ft from the launch point?I think in the widest FOV, it will easily do so. I want to say I set my gopro around 150ft back, but this (https://youtu.be/o_kbus1AdUY?t=75) show was mainly shells from 3" up to 6". Even with it that close, you can see the breaks, the cakes firing and even the very top of the smoke from the lift of the shells.


Yes, but proceed with caution. I purchased two knock-offs ~5 years ago. I was unimpressed. The image was noisy and discolored. I did some research at the time and what I choose was well recommended.

I'm absolutely sure there are some good ones out there and I must have picked poorly.This is the reason why I like used gopros. They're a known quality. Not to say there aren't good action cameras that aren't gopros, but I haven't looked into them in over a year.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Question for you GoPro guys....will a gopro captures the horizon and say 3" shells breaking 300ft in the sky in the frame with the camera 250ft from the launch point?

Yes. Look at my videos from PGI. All shot with the GoPro Hero 5 Session. Largest shell I captured 2 years ago was 36". It catches everything from that 36" down to 3" and ground effects without adjusting it.

[WithReport]

Good point, from an angle of view discussion, it is all about the same. That 36" was probably set back a bit too far at PGI. Although it was cool, I thought it lost some of it's pizzazz from being soo far back. Anyways, with a farther setback, you get an even larger/taller field of view.

Just don't use the linear setting, especially in 16x9

[ssmith512]

Thanks friends!

This is the kind of tangible info I can use.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Good point, from an angle of view discussion, it is all about the same. That 36" was probably set back a bit too far at PGI. Although it was cool, I thought it lost some of it's pizzazz from being soo far back. Anyways, with a farther setback, you get an even larger/taller field of view.

Just don't use the linear setting, especially in 16x9

Exactly my point. If you use the separation minimums specified in the NFPA's, then all the shells should be breaking at relatively the same place in the sky. Then again, I'm no math major. I just know my GoPro captures everything from floor to ceiling, and I don't have to adjust it for each type of effect.

[WithReport]

Then again, I'm no math major. I just know my GoPro captures everything from floor to ceiling, .... :cool: We can blame the trig on my recent experience with homeschooling my kids since schools are still all shut down here :mad:

We've all seen too many videos of people too close trying to film their shows with enough up and down camera motion to make one seasick from watching. If you have the room, set your camera back further.

However, sometimes you just don't have the distance. Here is a link that goes right to a video from a few weeks ago. (https://youtu.be/RkYkj6SGJTk?t=255) The camera was only ~ 230ft back. Unfortunately not enough, for the large Maltese shell.


I always try to have the camera on a tripod. They are relatively inexpensive if you are filming hundreds of dollars worth of fireworks. Since it is usually dark, one trick I've come up with for my shows is I have someone stand at the back of the field in the center with a flashlight shining back towards the camera before the show (or set off a flare or fountain in the back). That lets me center my field of view and ensure I have the mortars, cakes, and some ground in the foreground for perspective.

[jamisonlm3]

WithReport, It's funny you mention the flashlight trick. I was just thinking of using little lights like these (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=waterproof+tea+lights&_encoding=UTF-8&campaign=212361&creative=392013&link_code=wsw&tag=firefox0b-20) to do something similar. I'm thinking of using 2-3 to mark the center and very bottom of what I want in frame. Since my gopro doesn't have a screen on the back, I use an old 6" tablet to take the guesswork out. At night, I think they'll be easy to see. I agree with you about the tripod. It can be one of the cheapest accessories you buy for your camera and at the same time one of the easiest ways to improve the quality of the video. It's basically a must have.

[WithReport]

... I was just thinking of using little lights like these (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=waterproof+tea+lights&_encoding=UTF-8&campaign=212361&creative=392013&link_code=wsw&tag=firefox0b-20) to do something similar.....

I think you might need something brighter. From experience, the gopro screens are pretty small and I've had to use a fairly bright light to make sure I have it positioned correctly. Sometimes, I just walk out and lay a flashlight on a cake or rack. Ideally I have someone else walk out there.

Another benefit is that it makes editing the video easier if the camera is not moving around.

You will see in my 2018 video at the beginning, around 50s in, I get my big fingers in the camera's view while making a needed adjustment on the tripod:(

And in the 2019 video, I still make some minor adjustments at the beginning.

For 2020 and some other videos I've shot this year, I always set a flashlight out there and it has worked pretty good. I pick up the flashlight before the show and hope no-one has bumped the camera. ;)

[kenp]

At the risk of sounding stuffy, which I certainly don't intend...

I think the right camera is the one that gives you the results you want for a price you are willing to pay and the effort you are willing to expend.

My feeling is I want pretty good quality. I don't shoot often and I would like a good recording.

To that end look at the guys on youtube that do the top quality. Firecat8 (for club/product displays) and 1pyro8 (for larger commercial displays) are among the best quality. If that's what you want then you probably want that level of equipment.

Firecat has "Filming Fireworks - 10 Tips to Film Fireworks Better". Pretty much take it as gospel, Practice, practice, practice and pretty much expect everything to go wrong. But when the stars align the results can be great.

https://youtu.be/IXnxiqPW8To

I know he was using a GH4 with a Rokinon 10mm years ago. Not sure now. the gh5/gh5s would be a newer models but the g7/g9 are less expensive and would give similar results.

1pyro8 used gh4 and sony when I checked a few years back. Again not sure now.

That's not to say other cameras won't work. Again look at the samples on youtube (and in this forum) ask what equipment they use and make an informed decision.

Here is a site that will give you the field of view heights and widths for a particular style of camera and lens combo at different distances. https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/ -> depth of field

https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{%22c%22:[{%22f%22:8,%22av%22:%222.8%22,%22fl%22:10,%22d%22: 76200,%22cm%22:%220%22}],%22m%22:0}

for an example: a gh4 (micro 4/3) with a 10mm lens that is 250 feet from the fireworks will have a vertical view of 325 ft (in practice I find just a touch less). you can put your camera and lens in and based on your highest effect calculate how far back you should be.

here are two shows I did on my gh4 with a 10mm lens. Starships was 250 ft back. Transcendance at least 300ft.

Starships: https://youtu.be/8JOUIo-WkEo
Transcendance: https://youtu.be/5KcidfNmeJM

Look closely and you'll see the mistakes and you can learn from them.

I'm using blackmagicdesign's Davinci Resolve Studio for editing. One of the features is noise reduction and it does it well. I mention this as (in general) noise level increases as you shoot in higher ASA. You can get a free version of davinci as an alternative to Premiere but the free version doesn't have noise reduction. The only drawback to davinci is you need a video card with at least 8gb and 32gb of system memory. (yes, they say less but...)

Hope this helps

[WithReport]

At the risk of sounding stuffy, which I certainly don't intend...

....Hope this helps

Nope. Not stuffy. Good information! Thanks. I'm not a camera junkie, but learning more an more. That pointsinfocus site looks useful.

I have watched firecat's tips and enjoyed many of his videos. His equipment is much more $$ that a gopro, but like you said, it all depends on what the user is after and what they are wanting to pay.


Regarding the angle of view of cameras. Here are two side-by-sides captures of the same point of the same shows, but with two different cameras:


The Left - filmed by firecat from the grandstands or the platform behind the grandstands - in some of the videos you see the the crash fence and lower seats of the stands in the foreground (I have no clue what lens was used)

The Right - a gopro Hero6 from the raceway track front and center.



5431


5432

Both good videos, but a portion of the fireworks are out of frame in the left images. Some effects are too high, or some too low - like the mine run from the left shown in the 2nd comparison. In the first comparison, the whole show from ground to sky is captured in the frame on the right - with room to spare.

For reference, the infield between the two straightaways on the track is 250ft wide. Many of the cakes were in the infield, 1.3 shells were set back appropriately behind the wall.


I'm not arguing for one camera over the other, just pointing out potential differences in angle of view.


Somewhere I have 2018 footage. I was setup right next to firecat on the platform behind the grandstands with my gopro. Again, not arguing one over the other. I didn't want the crash fence and light poles in the foreground, so in 2019, I setup on the track with the gopro.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

:cool: We can blame the trig on my recent experience with homeschooling my kids since schools are still all shut down here :mad:

If my kids relied on me to teach them ANY kind of math, they'd be working at McDonald's their entire life. When I was doing my undergrad the only classes that scared the hell out of me were the math classes. So kudos to you!!

I bought a cheap telescoping tripod for my GoPro that fits nicely in my computer bag. It's basically a selfie stick with three foldout fins on the bottom. Awesome little tripod I use for all my shows. I think I got it off Amazon. Something like this one here: https://www.amazon.com/ARTOFUL-Bluetooth-360%C2%B0Rotation-Compatible-Android/dp/B08L4VW5N4/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-t3n6prW7QIV__DjBx2arg9XEAAYASAAEgJce_D_BwE&hvadid=410063393651&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9011450&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8630705019185511341&hvtargid=kwd-256692168699&hydadcr=18449_11408678&keywords=selfie+stick%2Ftripod&qid=1608249128&sr=8-16&tag=googhydr-20