Best practices for chain fusing from an initiator fired shell

[CozmicRooster]

I figured I?d start scripting my show while waiting for my new firing system to ship. While I?ll have 128 cues, I did a quick counting-of-fingers while listening to the more cue intensive of the 2 songs I want to use and came up with a rough count of about 112 cues. I could probably whittle that down with some smart placement of cakes and fused racks but I think I might need to do some other creative fusing.

I was thinking I could maintain my musical timing and reduce necessary cues by firing the first shell on cue with the initiator then fusing a second and maybe third shell from the first. That would get me three shots for the price of one and still be able to have good timing. I was thinking I could insert the initiator and quick-fuse into the first shell then poke the other end of the fuse directly into the second shell, then chain it the same way to the third. Is that sensible or is there a better way?

Thanks.

[displayfireworks1]

For me, firing 112 different items in a 2 song period seems high. Are these all one shot AP items? How many modules are the 128 cues? Why try to improvise to exceed the capacity of your equipment. Considering this is your first time, you are setting yourself up for failure.

[CozmicRooster]

For me, firing 112 different items in a 2 song period seems high. Are these all one shot AP items? How many modules are the 128 cues? Why try to improvise to exceed the capacity of your equipment. Considering this is your first time, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Yes a lot of one shot AP. I’m looking at 2 modules of the FireTek 16x64 with 3 firing positions, L/C/R. My calculations are probably estimated a little on the high side. There are quite a few places where there will be 3 or 4 closely timed shots that wouldn’t need the accuracy of a cue except for the first shot. I’m just getting started on the planning so I’m sure I’ll be able to narrow things down a bit.

I spent 18 years in live sound and theater production so I’m afraid I can be a bit ambitious with my production standards lol.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I was thinking I could maintain my musical timing and reduce necessary cues by firing the first shell on cue with the initiator then fusing a second and maybe third shell from the first. That would get me three shots for the price of one and still be able to have good timing. I was thinking I could insert the initiator and quick-fuse into the first shell then poke the other end of the fuse directly into the second shell, then chain it the same way to the third. Is that sensible or is there a better way?

Are you talking about using 1.3 shells--or 1.4 consumer? Also, do NOT depend on cakes to have accurate timing when scripting. They are fine for "filler" but will let you down if you are counting on them for accurate timing to music cues.

[CozmicRooster]

Are you talking about using 1.3 shells--or 1.4 consumer? Also, do NOT depend on cakes to have accurate timing when scripting. They are fine for "filler" but will let you down if you are counting on them for accurate timing to music cues.

1.4 consumer. The cakes are only intended for time and background filler in some areas, no timing specific events.

My thought was to get 3 rapid shots, timing the first on a cue and daisy chaining the other 2 with quick fuse.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

You can do that using the existing fuses---take the third shell and lay its fuse coming out of the mortar onto the fuse from the second shell---Magic tape them together, then take the fuse from the second shell and lay it on the fuse from the first shell coming out of the mortar....attach your igniter to the fuse on the first shell. Bingo--there will be a brief delay between the first, second, and third shell without a bunch of extra fusing. If you have access to quick match, a small piece--about 2-3 inches long other the end of the first shell fuse and connected to the igniter will give you pretty much flawless ignition. Plain fuse to an ematch isn't always reliable.
Also, trim your fuse ends to 45 degrees to expose the black powder and get a better pass fire with them.
Good luck---let us know how it works out for you.

[WithReport]

Regarding chain fusing from and initiator fired shell, I think your thought may be a lot of work and prone to variation. I would be curious how you plan on running the fuse. if it is up out of the tube firing and then down into the next tube, there may be a chance that the lifting shell may affect the fuse or even pull it up out of the tube - but it is probably doable.

Here is a picture of someone's setup I've seen a few times. In this situation, they have drilled holes at the base of the tubes and inserted fuse - much like the construction of a cake. I would call this approach "more advanced." In this case, they just cut open the bottom of the canister and dump the lift charge loose into the tube and then drop the cannister (timing fuse down of course). I've not set these up like this, but it will work and I've seen it done a few times. Curious what others think about this approach - chime in.

5419


I used a lot of e-fired consumer shells, but have just fired them individually. I'm curious as to what you will come up with.


As for number of cues per segment, it depends what you are going to do. I had one song about 3 minutes that had 151 cues, and it started slow with flare and a few meteors. It had a number of e-fired flights of shells (each flight on one cues). But then it included a lot of .5s fountains. This link goes right to the segment: https://youtu.be/6znkkiYg4b8?t=199


For cakes and timing with cakes, I have done a bit of modification. I might pull fuses and hit individual rows of tubes. Sometimes, I remove the all to common last row of crackle (and maybe separately dump it in with the finale). I'll run cakes backwards, and even poke 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or other tube to shorten the overall timing. For NOABS I usually fire them individually.

One of my favorite segments out of any of my shows so far has been the finale segment from the last 4th of July. This was 86 cues and a lot of modified cakes. I also use fireTEK and with the parallel rails, I shot from multiple positions on one cue. So the segment actually had around 125 igniters. https://youtu.be/6znkkiYg4b8?t=995


In total there were 66 igniters for consumer cakes listed in order below - you can see my notes in the script (which printed out on the labels) for modifications.



C500gNOAB-DeadRing(Single)-PYL1809-3
C500gNOAB-DeadRing(Single)-PYL1809-3
C500gZIP-Fandora(204)-PYLXXXX-15
C500gNOAB-DeadRing(Single)-PYL1809-3
C500gNOAB-DeadRing(Single)-PYL1809-3
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
C500gNOAB-DeadRing(Single)-PYL1809-3
C200g-JazzHands(25)-PYL1035-9
C200g-JazzHands(25)-PYL1035-9
C200g-BandCamp(25)-PYL1034-13
C500g-WhiteKnight(10)-PYL????-23
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
*M-C500g-GhostsFreedomPast(30)-PYL1913-39 (Only 3 rows)
C200g-JazzHands(25)-PYL1035-9
C200g-JazzHands(25)-PYL1035-9
C200g-BandCamp(25)-PYL1034-13
C500g-WhiteKnight(10)-PYL????-23
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
C500gF-ButterflyKisses(Single)-PYLXXXX-2
*M-C500gZIP-MeteorStorm(60)-DM186C5-18 (Frist 4 rows)
*M-C500gZIP-MeteorStorm(60)-DM186C5-18 (First 4 Rows)
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/3rows)
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/3rows)
C500gF-BadBone(24)-JFG8165-17
C500gF-BadBone(24)-JFG8165-17
C500gF-CherryPie(20)-PYL1021-15
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500g-RiseDragon(20)-PP2009-15
C500g-RiseDragon(20)-PP2009-15
C500g-CopperRiver(10)-PYL1037-32
C500g-CopperRiver(10)-PYL1037-32
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500gF-RedLightDist(20)-PYL1002-15
C500gF-RedLightDist(20)-PYL1002-15
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500g-AllGlitterGold(30s)-PYL1017-22
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500gF-CherryPie(20)-PYL1021-15
*M-C500gZIP-MeteorStorm(60)-DM186C5-18 (Last 5 Rows)
*M-C500gZIP-MeteorStorm(60)-DM186C5-18 (Last 5 Rows)
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/3rows)
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/3rows)
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/3rows)
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Single)-PYL1038-3
*M-C500gZIP-Peacock(180)-KM15038-10 (Just one Segment/4rows)
C500gNOAB-LPNo9(Double)PYL1038-3


Theater Production Experience. Sounds like you have some experience in productions. Can't wait to see what you put together. Do you plan on using DMX, too? I'm assuming you have some familiarity with DMX from theater production. And since direct DMX Control is included on all 32 and 64 cues fireTEK module, you have that in your arsenal, too. My fireTEK FTH modules purchased years ago came with DMX and I've had fun with it. The title segment of our 4th of July show last year "Set Me On Fire" was heavy on the DMX flames. There were only 21 pyro cues, but around 150 scripted DMX flame

[CozmicRooster]

Thanks for the tips.

@Withreport:
My original thought was to run the fuse down each tube, poked into the fuse port. I figured that would give me enough length so they didn’t fire simultaneously. I wasn’t sure about the possibility of failure to fire due the second fuse being pulled or not catching, hence the reason for the original question. I used the technique PyroJoe suggested on a few racks I fused for last year’s show but I’m not sure if the timing will too long. Either way I’m going to do some test shots early in the year once I get the modules to see which works better. If tying the OEM fuses together results in good timing that will be the easiest and most convenient method.

It’s funny you mentioned drilling holes in the firing tubes. I had been thinking about that anyway as a way to remove the fuse from the tube but I figured ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.’ I was also concerned about reducing the lift charge effect with an opening at the bottom of the tube. I might experiment with that at a later time.

I also plan on poking the igniters instead of connecting to the OEM fuse. I’d rather not have any possible lag.

I like the idea of modifying the cakes. I’m sure I’ve seen that in a thread somewhere. Seems handy when you just want a particular good effect but not the whole cake at once.

Yes I’m familiar with DMX, being one of the selling points of the FireTek system. Since I went way over budget on my module purchase (bought 2 instead of 1 - couldn’t beat the price) I’ll have to skip the DMX for 2021, but I’ll be looking at fire machines for future purchases. That should help with the pyro cue count in the future.

[Greenville Pyro]

With Report: Fantastic show!