Illinois type 54

[lostpup]

I just had my local agent call and ask my intent. Because Illinois requires permits and licenses. I marked not required as per Dave's video. I explained that I have no intention in using in Illinois. He still is on fence. I asked if it was a federal permit and allows me to use in other states and travel. He confirmed it does. I stated that my buying and usage would be Illinois/ Indiana as I live on border and my shooting will take place in Indiana. My contingency is with Waynes World and only 60ish miles away. He was also concerned that I did not have local storage. He mentioned that he thinks I may have to mark out Illinois on application. After a few minutes of talking I believe we can work threw this but it is not going to be an easy task. Welcome to Illinois. I hope to report back with good news. I sent my application on Sept 10th, cashed check on Sept 21st. Touch base interview Sept 30th.

Good note before we hung up he did say that he has never had anyone in my situation so he wanted to touch base and make sure it is all good before the actual interview. He wanted me to load Skype instead of just a talking phone interview. I sure hope this isn't as long and drawn out as it appears it may be.

[lostpup]

I forgot to add. Any other Illinois residents able to weigh in on there experience on obtaining their type 54 and not use it in the state?

[CHI_Pyro99]

Keep me updated. I’m from Illinois as well with a pending application (waiting for my call). I only listed WI and IN on my app as I have no intent on ever bringing any product into the state of IL. From what I’ve heard, it’s next to impossible to legally shoot in IL. Additional requirements + insurance $$$$

[d34d3ND]

First off, I assume you are not working for a company because they probably would not have you doing this on your own, so kudos to you for taking the initiative. "Intent" is meant to scare you off and not give you a license. Answer the question honestly. You are a hobbyist, from what I am gathering and you are just getting into pyro. Everyone starts somewhere. You don't have to go into detail about what you will be doing, they are just trying to filter out people obtaining a license for the wrong purposes. Ask yourself, what are you going to do with the license? Do you plan on advancing your knowledge in pyro? Do you plan on possibly attending open shoots and actually do shooting? Do you plan on opening a business one day? You dont have to go into extreme detail. Keep it brief and to the point.

As far as the being an IL resident and shooting in another state with your BATF license, your BATF license is good in every state. State lines dont matter until you start talking about transporting across them. I am in IL, I have my license, and I have my IL state license, but my storage is in IN as well.

Regarding the Skype vs. phone interview, that is most likely due to the current pandemic. Normally, they like to visit you in person, but with everything that is going on they may be doing this as a safety precaution. Remember, it is an interview just like a job interview. They want to see your character as well. How your expressions are when certain questions are asked or how you react to certain remarks. You dont need a suit to do the interview though, just be short and concise, but answer the questions the best you can. The whole application process is geared much more towards a business than a hobbyist, so yes, they will always scrutinize someone that is doing this for their own enjoyment rather than for a well-known company.

Also, reach out to Dave for assistance as well. He is always willing to help out if he can. IL is a tough place, but as long as you conduct yourself well, you will have no problem.

[lostpup]

First off, I assume you are not working for a company because they probably would not have you doing this on your own, so kudos to you for taking the initiative. "Intent" is meant to scare you off and not give you a license. Answer the question honestly. You are a hobbyist, from what I am gathering and you are just getting into pyro. Everyone starts somewhere. You don't have to go into detail about what you will be doing, they are just trying to filter out people obtaining a license for the wrong purposes. Ask yourself, what are you going to do with the license? Do you plan on advancing your knowledge in pyro? Do you plan on possibly attending open shoots and actually do shooting? Do you plan on opening a business one day? You dont have to go into extreme detail. Keep it brief and to the point.

As far as the being an IL resident and shooting in another state with your BATF license, your BATF license is good in every state. State lines dont matter until you start talking about transporting across them. I am in IL, I have my license, and I have my IL state license, but my storage is in IN as well.

Regarding the Skype vs. phone interview, that is most likely due to the current pandemic. Normally, they like to visit you in person, but with everything that is going on they may be doing this as a safety precaution. Remember, it is an interview just like a job interview. They want to see your character as well. How your expressions are when certain questions are asked or how you react to certain remarks. You dont need a suit to do the interview though, just be short and concise, but answer the questions the best you can. The whole application process is geared much more towards a business than a hobbyist, so yes, they will always scrutinize someone that is doing this for their own enjoyment rather than for a well-known company.

Also, reach out to Dave for assistance as well. He is always willing to help out if he can. IL is a tough place, but as long as you conduct yourself well, you will have no problem.


Thank you forcthe input. I answered honest and have nothing to hide. The way the call started out it has me concerned how this process is going to go. He straight up said this isn't going to happen fast and that I'm required to have a state operators license and DNR license. I explained that my intent is to shoot in indiana. I don't have any objections to furthering my education or taking the state test later. I guess I just didn't think about ill intent or someone getting license for wrong purposes. It is as a hobbyist. I do have a distributor close and there is an open shootcthis weekend. I will not be able to purchase product obviously. Just stating that spring and fall I will likely shoot as well as our personal 4th party. Which is what started this process and wanting to further it. Side note and he has no way of knowing. I am taking a shooters saftey class this weekend and next spring hope to take more.

By the end of the call he had stated that he hasn't ran into someone with my situation and wants to get some more answers before the interview. Totally agree that an in-person meeting or interview you can read body language and demeanor much better, than a voice on phone or written word.

[d34d3ND]

Thank you forcthe input. I answered honest and have nothing to hide. The way the call started out it has me concerned how this process is going to go. He straight up said this isn't going to happen fast and that I'm required to have a state operators license and DNR license. I explained that my intent is to shoot in indiana. I don't have any objections to furthering my education or taking the state test later. I guess I just didn't think about ill intent or someone getting license for wrong purposes. It is as a hobbyist. I do have a distributor close and there is an open shootcthis weekend. I will not be able to purchase product obviously. Just stating that spring and fall I will likely shoot as well as our personal 4th party. Which is what started this process and wanting to further it. Side note and he has no way of knowing. I am taking a shooters saftey class this weekend and next spring hope to take more.

By the end of the call he had stated that he hasn't ran into someone with my situation and wants to get some more answers before the interview. Totally agree that an in-person meeting or interview you can read body language and demeanor much better, than a voice on phone or written word.

Don't sweat it too much. I got a similar response from my BATF person, but in the end, I got my license. Yes, you are supposed to have a DNR license and Office of the Fire Marshal license, or whatever they call it. I have the DNR one and that is pretty simple for IL. For the DNR license, it is a general Explosives license that covers High and Low explosives. It is not strictly a low explosive license for fireworks as they dont have differentiate. You will take an 8 hour class that is similar to taking a firearms class where you will pass by the end "wink wink". There is also a $100 fee and yes, another set of fingerprints you pay for.

For the Office of the Fire Marshal, you can almost forget about this one or try and get it via working part time for a company. They have some outrageous requirements that completely exclude hobbyist. In fact, when I spoke to them, they said they would not even consider a hobbyist because you have to be a lead shooter on a crew for X amount of times, as well as work on X amount of shows. A hobbyist may only do a show or 2 a year and wont make this requirement. But, if you find a way to get this, please let me know as well.

Maybe the agent was new, but if they are telling you they have not run into the same issue with others from IL, they are full of it. There are many hobbyists out there and many from IL. Keep your chin up, you are doing it properly and don't get discouraged.

[CHI_Pyro99]

I am taking a shooters saftey class this weekend and next spring hope to take more.

Wayne’s world? Heading down from Chicago. See you there!

[displayfireworks1]

I keep trying to sign up that cheap ass Waynes World to pyrotalk but never get a response from them. Send him all these customers. Whatever you do with that ATF interview do not sign to withdraw the application .

[lostpup]

I keep trying to sign up that cheap ass Waynes World to pyrotalk but never get a response from them. Send him all these customers. Whatever you do with that ATF interview do not sign to withdraw the application .

That is what my initial gut feeling was. I hope I was wrong and this is just a simple oversight or cautious Agent. There is zero chance of me withdrawing it. They will have to deny and go thru that process if it comes down to it. Will see how this plays out, hopefully I just misinterpreted his initial call or he is just very thorough. Patiently waiting the next call.

[ssmith512]

Fingers crossed for you all goes well from this point forward!

[Crush630]

Chicago 54 holder.. I can answer questions

[lostpup]

Just received a second phone call. Conversation went much better this time. We have to fix somethings that are confusing on the application. I put my name as a business name. Either have to leave it blank or find a different name. I rent my home so he needs land lord statement I can basicly run a business from here. And wants a statement that I will not use or store in illinois. Really seemed super helpful and wanted to get this taken care of. Official interview is next Friday morning.

[ssmith512]

Sweet! Glad things see to be moving in a more promising direction.

[displayfireworks1]

Just received a second phone call. Conversation went much better this time. We have to fix somethings that are confusing on the application. I put my name as a business name. Either have to leave it blank or find a different name. I rent my home so he needs land lord statement I can basicly run a business from here. And wants a statement that I will not use or store in illinois. Really seemed super helpful and wanted to get this taken care of. Official interview is next Friday morning.

I do not agree with what is telling you. He is adding requirements that are not part of the application. You may regret making a side agreement not to shoot in your own state. If anything you agree to follow the requirements of the ATF license and that is it. That license is good for all states including Illinois. He is trying to protect himself and his boss. That is problem with some of these ATF regional locations , they think they can make up rules without the statutes or regulations to back them. Refresh my memory, did this Inspector come out the Chicago area? I got word they are trying to crack down on that Chicago area that is why I'm asking.
Another thing, you stated he wants a statement you will not use in Illinois. Don't you write it. They will turn around and say you submitted it and didn't make you sign it.

[d34d3ND]

I would agree with Dave and go one step further that I definitely don't agree with writing a statement that you will not shoot in IL. If you follow the law, you have the absolute right to shoot in IL (although it may cost you a bit). Not storing in the place you rent, that is a different story. Storing and shooting are 2 separate, and not equal, actions. Like Crush630, I am from IL and about a 3 block walk to the south border of Chicago. Of course I am not going to store or shoot anything on my property, that was implied when there is no stretch of the imagination I could follow the law and do either. Your contingency letter should be enough proof that you are not storing in your home. Where you shoot is up to the local jurisdiction and the Fire Marshall. Definitely don't write you will not shoot in IL though.

[Crush630]

Umm what the ATF agent is telling you to do is BS. Absolutely DO NOT write any letter saying you will not shoot in IL. Is this agent from the Downers Grove office? If you need help PM me.


BTW my 54 renewal came in less than 20 days :)

[lostpup]

The agent is coming out of Fairview heights. I live on the illinois indiana border. We are both 618 area code . I'm a 2 plus hour trip for him. Thank you guys for reassuring me on the part hes stating about writing notcto shoot in illinois. I do not have plans to shoot in illinois. But this application should not be dependent on Illinois law. That said I understand him asking the question as to find intent and make sure its lawful. I have talked to my landlord and he is okay with the business side or permission to have business. I felt pretty good about the phone call but now have concerns again what kinda trickery he is going to ask to try to cover his butt.

[displayfireworks1]

The more I read this Illinois post the more things I find wrong. You are not running a business in your rental home because you are not in business. As far as that statement about not shooting in Illinois, it will be interesting to see how he handles it if you refuse to provide that statement. On that one , I'm sure there are cities and carnivals in Illinois that do have fireworks displays. So it is possible to shoot fireworks in that state. If anything HE should provide you with the requirements to shoot in that state and possibly have you sign that. Not have you sign to exempt yourself from that possibility all together. I know you are at a point in the process where you think if you refuse to provide this simple statement he will deny the application and it all sound so easy to comply. That statement is unnecessary , not required and it has a slight ring of intimation and trying to prevent competition for display companies in that state. If you refuse to provide that statement and he attempts to deny the application, request a delay for another week, get his full name , email and cell phone. I'll call/email him and help advocate your position.
From their end, the Federal Explosive regulation are in conflict with State Laws. The Feds give you permission to purchase, transport etc. but not all states give you permission to shoot. They need to address that in their regulations and not add these little self servicing side agreements.

[Crush630]

Even if you want to get your IL IDNR Explosives and Fire Marshal licenses, you need your 54. They wont even talk to you if you do not have your 54.

[lostpup]

The more I read this Illinois post the more things I find wrong. You are not running a business in your rental home because you are not in business. As far as that statement about not shooting in Illinois, it will be interesting to see how he handles it if you refuse to provide that statement. On that one , I'm sure there are cities and carnivals in Illinois that do have fireworks displays. So it is possible to shoot fireworks in that state. If anything HE should provide you with the requirements to shoot in that state and possibly have you sign that. Not have you sign to exempt yourself from that possibility all together. I know you are at a point in the process where you think if you refuse to provide this simple statement he will deny the application and it all sound so easy to comply. That statement is unnecessary , not required and it has a slight ring of intimation and trying to prevent competition for display companies in that state. If you refuse to provide that statement and he attempts to deny the application, request a delay for another week, get his full name , email and cell phone. I'll call/email him and help advocate your position.
From their end, the Federal Explosive regulation are in conflict with State Laws. The Feds give you permission to purchase, transport etc. but not all states give you permission to shoot. They need to address that in their regulations and not add these little self servicing side agreements.


I have his cell, but out of curiosity at this point in process I'm waiting till tomorrow to call and ask him to clarify what he is wanting me to sign. After thinking this over for a few days. My position is that I'm okay signing something to agree to follow the law of the state that I am in. I do not at the present moment have intent or desire to shoot in Illinois. I also do not want to put myself in a situation that I can never do that by signing something that states I won't shoot in illinois. Of course being new to all of this and the gross amount of info I'm trying to take in and learn I very much appreciate you all helping keep me on the right path.

His comment about running a business out of my residence is along the lines of the application being for a business is my understanding or belief. Could it be otherwise. Absolutely. The face to face Friday will clear alot of confusion. I am hopeful that is what this is. On the other side of that. This is Illinois and I am apprehensive.

[lostpup]

I work nights and he has been very accommodating. Calling in afternoon and making things to work on my schedule. I'm off on Fridays and he has made the calls on Fridays. That was discussed in first phone call. I still have not gotten the feeling he is trying to deny me. But I do get the feeling he is covering his tail. Its his job to be through. Hopefully it all goes smooth fri.

[lostpup]

Even if you want to get your IL IDNR Explosives and Fire Marshal licenses, you need your 54. They wont even talk to you if you do not have your 54.

Thank you Crush. I don't know that I will ever have a desire to shoot Illinois. That said the pyro community is fairly small in the big scope of things. It is possible down the road to become friends with other 54 holders or those in business and might want help. At that point I may have to consider the Fire Marshall's test and IDNR License.

[lostpup]

Thank you Dave for being willing to advocate. I will not sign anything that restricts me from a state level and will not with draw the application.

[d34d3ND]

I have his cell, but out of curiosity at this point in process I'm waiting till tomorrow to call and ask him to clarify what he is wanting me to sign. After thinking this over for a few days. My position is that I'm okay signing something to agree to follow the law of the state that I am in. I do not at the present moment have intent or desire to shoot in Illinois. I also do not want to put myself in a situation that I can never do that by signing something that states I won't shoot in illinois. Of course being new to all of this and the gross amount of info I'm trying to take in and learn I very much appreciate you all helping keep me on the right path.

His comment about running a business out of my residence is along the lines of the application being for a business is my understanding or belief. Could it be otherwise. Absolutely. The face to face Friday will clear alot of confusion. I am hopeful that is what this is. On the other side of that. This is Illinois and I am apprehensive.

The application is absolutely geared towards a business. I think Dave may have mentioned this in a post, video, or on the DVD. Apparently the BATFE has not come to the realization that people who do not plan to, or do not currently, work for a business may want to shoot. Unfortunately, I highly doubt they are going to change their forms either to gear them towards a self-starting hobbyist. Yet another way to dissuade you from pursuing something legally, and trying to do it the right way.

I strongly urge you to follow Dave's recommendations. Most of use IL license holders can give you our experiences, but Dave has made it his business to help everyone eager to obtain a license, get a license. Unless there is a background issue, his track record is pretty stellar just by reading the forums.

[lostpup]

The application is absolutely geared towards a business. I think Dave may have mentioned this in a post, video, or on the DVD. Apparently the BATFE has not come to the realization that people who do not plan to, or do not currently, work for a business may want to shoot. Unfortunately, I highly doubt they are going to change their forms either to gear them towards a self-starting hobbyist. Yet another way to dissuade you from pursuing something legally, and trying to do it the right way.

I strongly urge you to follow Dave's recommendations. Most of use IL license holders can give you our experiences, but Dave has made it his business to help everyone eager to obtain a license, get a license. Unless there is a background issue, his track record is pretty stellar just by reading the forums.
Thank you d34. I thought I relayed that I'm thankful and going to follow his advise. There is no background issue. If Illinois will allow CCW I am confident in the rest of the process. Alike I've stated I am hopeful it is on my side being worried but from his wording it has me concerned how this is going to go down. Luckily I'm on no timeliness and this is flying so we have time if needed.

[BMoore]

You've been given some good advice but I'll add a couple points. In the eyes of the ATF you are filling out a business application. You are applying for a business license to operate a display fireworks business out of your residence. Just keep that in mind as you go through the process and some of their questions, concerns and how to answer them will make a lot more sense. The other thing they are looking at is "Can he do this legally?" I assume you already have your contingency storage agreement so that aspect is covered. You might also consider printing off announcements for things like out of state open shoots, pyro clubs, etc. Just ways to demonstrate that what you want to do is actually a thing and that you aren't trying to do something unheard of.

[lostpup]

UPADTE. Phone call number 3. Mine to him this time. Cleared up the shooting in illinois. His interest or concern is that I follow state laws and permits that are required for each state. As I wrote on application none were needed. He said basicly this interview will be going over federal law explaining the storage and handling requirements. Since I have contingency and not a magazine at home. He wants to make sure I understand what is required. I am of the belief that when the first conversations took place he was being short and brief and wires were crossed and miss understood. Will know 100% fri but sounds like there was just some confusion. All he asked for in a note or signing of paper is that I follow applicable laws for the state I'm in.

[displayfireworks1]

I was going to tell you don't call him. I had a feeling he was going to drop that statement issue. Sounds like things are still going in a good direction.

[Bitzan]

I was going to tell you don't call him. I had a feeling he was going to drop that statement issue. Sounds like things are still going in a good direction.

Dave,
Just curious... as this is a "must issue" license with its own application process can an individual agent ask someone to sign "additional" paperwork such as signing a statement that you will follow all laws? Would seem to me that the only paperwork one needs to fill out is the paperwork called for not "any and all paperwork" an individual agent can think of.

[displayfireworks1]

These ATF Inspectors are like the police in a lot of ways. They can say and do all sorts of things in an effort to talk you into or out of something and convince you that you were the one that offered it or signed off on it. This is why the written word is the only word that matters. The written word is not a newly created document that has not gone through the proper approval channels. The problem I have is, people that talked with the ATF in the past will go around like agents for the ATF and profess some BS is true even when it is not. They will say "That is what is the ATF told me". You can see just from the one situation in Illinois that Inspector doesn't know what is doing when it come to explosive applications. He went back to their legal advisory people with a situation he was unfamiliar with, that is why he dropped all that side agreement BS. I wish my man here didn't call them because I suspected he was going drop it come Friday. I spend a great deal of time clearing up BS that other fireworks enthusiast profess to be true when it come to the ATF Fireworks license. We as an advanced fireworks enthusiast group have challenged the ATF application process multiple times with this additional BS they try to place upon us. This is why in my DVD package and especially when I teach a ATF license class I emphasize you do not sign to withdraw the application.
Are some side documents reasonable , yes. One for example is here is Pennsylvania they caught too many people storing 1.3 products incorrectly. So over the last few years they have PA applicants sign a separate document in regard to proper storage , contingency etc. Please note it is not a newly created side agreement. It is a highlighted document of a rule that is already part of the regulations. Also I believe the term is "Shall Issue" and not "Must Issue".

[Crush630]

I am with Dave. Never sign anything you are second guessing.

[lostpup]

Update. Just had my interview. Exactly 1 month to the day from the date on the application. Took 2 1/2 hours. I had some issues with my application. Not all the i's dotted and T's crossed so to speak. Minor in the big picture but this is the ATF it needs to be done completely and exactly as it is written on application. Was not asked to sign anything about which state I'm using in. Was absolutely discussed and he wanted to make sure I knew that there is permits required for Illinois. Now it's a waiting game on background check. He said could be 30-60 days. Could be 10. He does not know when they will have that completed. Same story as others increase in employee processor and checks currently.

[Arclight]

I had errors on my application, and they just had me change a couple of things and initial. Don't panic about that - they won't restart the clock or throw out your app. I also had to sign the diagram of my magazine installation before it could be submitted. I think that is pretty ordinary stuff.

[lostpup]

I had errors on my application, and they just had me change a couple of things and initial. Don't panic about that - they won't restart the clock or throw out your app. I also had to sign the diagram of my magazine installation before it could be submitted. I think that is pretty ordinary stuff.


That is what went down. Had to make amendments, initial and date. Just couldn't do it over phone. I feel like he was super helpful and tried making it as painless as possible.

[Crush630]

That is what went down. Had to make amendments, initial and date. Just couldn't do it over phone. I feel like he was super helpful and tried making it as painless as possible.

Glad it went better, let us know when it arrives in the mail. Also DO NOT SIGN IT. Make a few copies of it and have the original laminated. Helps keep it dry, and clean.

[lostpup]

Glad it went better, let us know when it arrives in the mail. Also DO NOT SIGN IT. Make a few copies of it and have the original laminated. Helps keep it dry, and clean.


Thank you for that heads up and tip.

[displayfireworks1]

Well at least now your done with the interview etc. Now you just wait for the envelope. Lets us know when you receive the license. Also please tell us how many days past the interview it will be when it arrives.

[lostpup]

Well at least now your down with the interview etc. Now you just wait for the envelope. Lets us know when you receive the license. Also please tell us how many days past the interview it will be when it arrives.


I will post up here the day it arrives. Today marks exactly 1 month from date on application. Moving along very very fast.

[lostpup]

My white envelope arrived today. Thank you everyone for the encouragement and offer of help along the way. Time line, I signed and dated the Application on Sept 10th, in home interview Oct10th, and type 54 in hand Oct 27th. Needless to say this went very very fast.

[Crush630]

Welcome to club 54 fellow tax paying Illinoisan

[lostpup]

Welcome to club 54 fellow tax paying Illinoisan

Thanks Crush, now over the next year I need to figure out if I want a magazine and or to take all the Illinois classes. I'm sure thru this experience I will meet others in area and it may become something to further this and presue.

[Crush630]

Owning a mag in IL is tuff. What area of IL are you from?

[lostpup]

Owning a mag in IL is tuff. What area of IL are you from?


4 hours straight south of you on Illinois/ Indiana border. Town population of 1500ish and county of 10,000 at most

[cornbread]

First I'd like to congratulate lostpup on his type 54.
I'm new here (first post) but have lurked for about 2 years as a firework hobbyist and I'm ready to apply for the type 54 as an Illinois resident. I'm in a similar spot for most of us where I'm going to be shooting out of state (my shooting will be in Wisconsin where a permit is required by the local municipality of where the shooting takes place). I never intend to shoot or store in illinois, at least for the foreseeable future. Ultimately, my question for you all is:

For question 13. "Is a State or local license or permit required for explosive business and/or operations?"

Should I still check no? The consensus from most says to check no, but I'm wondering if the final application for lostpup still reflects this after the hard time their ATF agent gave them.

Actually another question as well, I plan to take the 8 hour IDNR explosives license course. Should I take this course before or after I get my type 54? I simply want to take the course to educate myself more in pyrotechnics as well as better understand Illinois law. I figure it may also help in getting the type 54, assuming I can take it without one.

I appreciate all input. My decision to revive this thread as opposed to making a new one is considering how relevant all this information is to Illinois. Thanks to everyone.

[Crush630]

Im in IL and have 54 and all IL required licenses/permits.

If you are not shooting in IL you do not need your IDNR license. The IDNR course is not about fireworks really. It was more about explosives/storage. When I took the course it was mostly miners.

Q13: No is your response if you are not firing in IL.

DM me if you have more questions happy to help.

[cornbread]

Sent you a DM Crush630