Firing Systems Options

[FWGuy]

Have been hand firing shows for a long, long time and looking to make the leap to a firing system. I do about 1-2 shows (100% 1.4 - 200G, 500G, and shells all fused on boards and racks, 150-200 shellsl, 150-200 cakes average p/show) a year and believe a firing system is (i) safer; (ii) just plain more enjoyable to set up; and (iii) and ultimately would be able to actually watch and enjoy the show from a distance. I know the COBRA systems are exceptional, but are there other options I should consider that are perhaps better suited for a hobbyist like me. The COBRA systems are indeed an "investment" but think they may be a little too advanced or have features that I would not be able to take advantage of. I don't think I would be doing any shows timed/synced to music but would like add 1.4pro. Thoughts and guidance much appreciated.

[topshelfpyro]

FireTEK......

When you get a firing system (whatever it is) you could be surprised how fast you decide you do want to sync to something, music, a beat in your head, whatever. It is alot of work to e-fire as well (poking cakes, poking cans, etc) plus you have the cost of igniters.

Its worth the investment, you can have so much more fun and do things you just cant do with fuse.

[WithReport]

Most firing systems are in investment like you stated. Over the years I've picked up RFRemotech, Cobra, and fireTEK systems. For the first reason you list (i) safer, I initially started out with an RFRemotech device- MS12Q and then and MS32Q. They work great even after 10 years. If that is all you were after, I'd suggest looking at those options. Pick up an MS12Q for ~ $100 and try it out. I'd recommend picking up a SLA 12 volt battery to use with it so you are not buying a bunch of disposable batteries.

If you are after programming and audio, there are a number of options. They will all be more of an investment - some much more than others.

[Birdman]

Sounds like any generic chinese import firing system would fit your needs. You can find them on Amazon or ebay. You can get a 24 cue starter system for around 200 or less. It can expand up to 1200 cues by adding more modules. Modules run around 20-30 to add 12 additional cues. They are basic. Set what zone you want and press the cue (1-12) you want to fire:


https://youtu.be/NgIbiicqUXA

[Robbro097]

I started with ebay 12 cue system then wanted more so had the 1200 remote and more mods then after big show poking cakes and instant ignition i wanted to do pyromusical something i never thought id want to do but there i was buying a cobra the next year. So once u start on efiring its better to have more possibilities than u think u need because before u know it your wanting to up your game, or thats how it went for me. Firetek cobra or an import let the journey begin it sure is fun

[WithReport]

FireTEK......

When you get a firing system (whatever it is) you could be surprised how fast you decide you do want to sync to something, music, a beat in your head, whatever. It is alot of work to e-fire as well (poking cakes, poking cans, etc) plus you have the cost of igniters.

Its worth the investment, you can have so much more fun and do things you just cant do with fuse.


Yep. If one wanted to get a more capable system, that would be my top recommendation. I'm very pleased with my fireTEK system. My first scriptable system was a 48E module and Remote that plays the audio, too.

[Scotty Rockets]

fireTEK... be as basic as you want or as elaborate and advanced as you want. Imo no other system offers the versatility and al la carte options as fireTEK does.

[esgrillo]

no........

[esgrillo]

and my last reply had all the periods just to get to 10 characters lol

Of course there are plenty of other good systems as others have mentioned but my experience says cobra and I do one show a year pretty much.

Every single piece of hardware I have purchased going back to 9 years ago is still operating perfect. As they improve hardware and software, you can upgrade older versions and I have done all that including lipo upgrades, quick plug install, firmware, etc. It is a system that does have obsolete hardware and easy to expand.

Plus everyone has a Cobra support story. I have many. The one that I still find most impressive is when 3yrs ago on July 3rd I went to do continuity tests on my new 36ms in the field after setting everything up and several had errors when booting up. It was late in the afternoon, I had a million things I still needed to do to get ready for the 4th and was in panic mode. I called Cobra, and scott answers.

He worked with me to diagnose the issue and get to the root cause that enabled me to have a great show the next day. As a followup he worked with me to permanently address the issue by them upgrading the hardware version for the 36ms at their cost so the issue did not happen again. The company has the best customer service of any business I have ever been associated with and that includes my internet business that I have been running for 21 years lol

My 2 cents

[esgrillo]

plus one more thing. The cobra community is huge and includes a vast continent of backyard guys. You can see on their FB forum when someone asks if they can borrow/rent a mod for a show, there is always people nearby that can help.

Hell I have been borrowing 3 mods for 3 yrs straight from a friend I met on this forum that lives in my area.

[Scotty Rockets]

Something I?d like to address here on the fireTEK customer support... much has been made of cobra?s community and customer support/service. I assure you even though our online community is much smaller, we are all willing to help each other out. As for customer support/service and troubleshooting, we have a 3 person team @ team fireTEK USA that are available 24/7 and man himself Laurian is always available for the more technical issues.

Just to add all of fireTEK equipment is compatible from the original fth48e module to the upcoming new release modules, and will always be.

[Birdman]

I agree with Ed, if you have the budget for it, purchase a Cobra! If you don't, get a Chinese import system and save up for a Cobra. Many of us started with the Chinese import systems and upgraded to Cobra not long after getting the remote firing bug. I was like you, just wanted a safer better way of lighting fireworks. I purchased a 36 cue Chinese import system. It served it's purpose until I got interested in wanting to script shows and set them to music a year later. I also was not interested in scripting or PM's at first. I don't regret getting my Chinese system because it did help me learn the ins/outs of firing remotely and got me in that game quickly. However, If I had to do it again, I would probably go right to a Cobra (hindsight is 20/20).

I never had to contact Cobra for support because all of the questions I ever had were either answered using their online documentation or finding the answer right here. IMO, Cobra is the gold standard for the hobbyist for all of the reasons Ed mentions.

[topshelfpyro]

Yes.......FireTEK all day long and twice on Sunday........IF your going to invest in a firing system. If your going ebay or something then this is irrelevant.

A drawback is the fact that FireTEK is not as wide spread as Cobra here in the US so if you do need to borrow or rent a mod it usually has to be shipped to you but I was offered 5- 48sx(the water proof "pro" version) mods for the 4th this year just by asking in the FireTEK facebook page so it can happen. Other than that I've messaged a question at 9pm EST (my time) which is 4AM local time for FireTEK and got an immediate response multiple times. My original 48E from 2009 hasn't missed a beat no upgrades needed......and no issues "communicating" with the hardware I just bought last month......

You also wont find alot of "old" hardware for sale constantly like you will with cobra from people that decided to upgrade their obsolete equipment. In fact its difficult to find ANY used FireTEK hardware which really says something to the longevity of the hardware and software. I have 5 mods (240 cues), a remote, 30 rails, chargers, etc in a seahorse 920 case. Try that with Cobra, Mongoose, or any of the others......

[Mudballs]

I feel the real question is do you want a cheap Ebay system or a system that is built to last. I personally feel save the money and get a real system the first time. It is an investment, but this is something you will use every year. You can't go wrong with a cobra or fire tek system. I feel it is a personal preference on what one you personally will like better. There are lots of videos out there on both systems to help you choose. Both systems allow you to buy bare bone systems, up to very extreme setups. Last advice is look/wait for when the system you want goes on sale. Can save a decent amount of money waiting for the sales.

[WithReport]

To the OP, you need to decide what is your budget and what you think you will want long term. If I go back 10-15 years, it sounds like I was in the same position you are (wanted to buy something on a budget and wanted my 20min. fuse show to be safer). At that time, I hand convinced myself I was not going to do any pyromusicals so I didn?t need scripting.

The one difference was, at my decision point, I was not on all these forms - my research was independent and free of influence (good or bad).

So for my budget starting approach I went with some RFRemotech items with external SLA 12V batteries. They have served me well and are still my recommendation for someone in a similar position.

These are NOT disposable ebay systems. You can find some good distributors in the U.S. that sell ?remote firing systems? that will provide good support and repair the Remotech items if needed. For 10+ years mine have worked flawlessly and no repair has been needed. Honestly, I don?t use them much anymore, but they do get used.

I had one of the MS12Q powered up earlier this week for a video on talons I was doing.

5215

My kids have some Alpha units out setting off smoke for fun recently, too.

5216

Oh and on the 4th, a buddy borrows some of them for his show, so they get dusted off every year and have kept working.

Others seem satisfied with their ebay systems, but my concern was lack of support and all the batteries. I see some of these configurations with 30+ 4-cue modules and each one of them takes at least 4 AA batteries! That becomes a big issue and recurring cost. In all my systems, the only ones that see replaceable batteries are the single-cue Alpha units. Everything else is on either internally and/or externally rechargeable batteries.

Anyways, a number of years ago I ?upgraded? to do scripted shows with music and keep adding equipment each year. I?m now close to 600 cues across a couple of scriptable systems. However, I have no buyers remorse or regret in starting out with the non-scriptable options.

So decide what you want to do, do some research, ask specific questions, and make YOUR decision. Oh, and have fun - more safely!

[WithReport]

no........

Ed. What?s with the big quick NO (and did the period key get stuck on your keyboard:o)?

As stated, I prefer and recommend fireTEK. I also have fireTEK and Cobra devices and experience with both. I actually put some quick plug connectors on an 18M last night to try them out (I?m not convinced that the Quick Plug are worth my investment - have yet to decide and may ping you for some thoughts, but that can be a separate post at some point).

Cobra service is good, but it isn?t unique. From what I?ve seen personally and heard from others is most all higher end systems provide top notch service. They have to - it?s a fairly small community and they all want a piece of it. Cobra strongly emphasizes service as part of their marketing (and Cobra is able to do a lot of marketing that others are jealous of).

One thing I really appreciate about Cobra is the documentation they provide - as Birdman pointed out. That is one area fireTEK lacks - big time! There is fireTEK documentation out there, but until you get into a user group, it?s hard to find. I know fireTEK is working to improve that documentation - hopefully soon.

IMO, Cobra has done a good job building loyalty. A portion of that is by ?buying? loyalty; e.g., Cobra Club/pyrotechnic club discounts and group purchases, and other sponsorship, that others are not or cannot do. I?m not faulting the approach one bit- it?s great for Cobra - non-for-profit clubs encourage or push Cobra on new members, even unintentionally. What company wouldn?t want that? Everyone has their own criteria, but benign the most popular doesn?t mean something is the best option out there or the most innovative. Actually popularity can stifle one?s need for innovation. Cobra told me in a face to face discussion many years ago ?DMX will be out next year.? They are still working on TC and there is that audiobox battery. I think their current focus is now on special effects with the 6M not the club/hobbyist market.

As for full hardware compatibility, I?ve had cobra staff walk out in the field with my 18R2 when a show was supposed to have started trying to wake up modules 500 ft away - they were someone else's mods but power cycling of the 18R2 didn?t work and the modules had to be restarted. And there is the almost humorous hassle of figuring out what firmware borrowed cobra modules are running and who has the $100 stick needed for firmware updates or downgrades depending on who?s borrowing from who. So far fireTEK firmware versions are cross compatible. But, if you wanted to update firmware you just need a computer and USB cable.

The cobra audiobox is a known high maintenance item, specific formatting through audacity, MP3 only, etc. I?ve never personally shot a show with the cobra audio box, but I?ve been to and set up a number of shows that have been plagued with audiobox issues - just check out all the FAQ items for setting it up correctly. And it is a known battery hog (yep they are working on lipo).

As for batteries other than the 18R2 all of my fireTEK and Cobra items are powered by rechargeable batteries, with external power options. One of the nice things about fireTEK, is the internal and external power is separated so you can just connect the external battery when needed (think of potential urgent situations) without having to stop and change a voltage mode on the module through some combination of button pushes you have to remember. Even the fireTEK remote has a rechargeable lipo and ?hot pluggable? external power capability. If needed, you can also just plug in the charger in any state, even during the show. These little features not available with other systems seemed to be thought out features to make potential stressful situations (low/bad battery) easy for the user.

Back to the audiobox, that was the first initial turnoff for me with Cobra when getting started - having to buy a separate large device for audio. My first scriptable setup was a fireTEK 48E module and a FTM-99s remote. The remote comes with an internal player with an internal hard drive and ability to read audio on USB drive. When I started I picked up 48 cues that I could synchronize to audio at a fraction of the cost of a comparable cobra setup. There is still the player option on the fireTEK remote today, but I think most people just use the included android application and run the show and audio off their android device connected to either a remote or module. Oh, and there are at least 5 different ways to control audio with fireTEK so you have lots of options.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but the fireTEK field modules can also be set as a sequencer for other systems, run standalone with s script, be set as a master or network and control slaves, and be set up with an android device to control audio. Those are all features that provide quite a bit of capability not seen in other systems. I once forgot my remote!! It was just a club shoot hours away, but still. Any other system, I?d have been DOA. However, I was able to plug my tablet into a field module I designated as Master and create a wireless network with the other modules and I fired my segment without the remote - back in the game! This was one of the redundancies of the system that I had read about when researching and ended up actually using it. Similarly I did a halftime show last year and with a crew watching the shoot site, a spare ?field module? module in the press box connected to an android device that was plugged into the sound board providing the soundtrack to the stands. The press box didn?t have a good line of sight to the shoot site, so I sat in the stands with the remote.

Besides timecode, DMX, GPS, and even bluetooth options that fireTEK has, one of the things that really drew me in, was the real time information on the large screens. I am displeased with the cobra screens. Also fireEK provides real time monitoring and prompting on the remote screen. Say someone is walking through the field just before the show, for whatever reason, and their shoe catches a wire and disconnects a cue. The system is constantly monitoring the setup and the remote notifies you on the screen (without having to push anything) that it has come disconnected and takes you right to the module screen on the remote and it says ?Check Igniters? and the symbology shows you which cue is missing. Similarly, if a battery is running low, you get notified and guided to the problem.

It may be that neither Cobra or fireTEK are what the OP is looking for, but I want to encourage people to do some research. IMO there are better options that are less expensive.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I'm going to stay out of the Cobra vs. Firetek debate and simply say, whatever you buy, make it your forever system. Meaning, don't waste money on cheap Chinese systems. You'll use it for a year, maybe 2, then you're going to buy a Cobra or Firetek system anyway. So bite the bullet, and just buy the system you ultimately know you want up front. My $0.02

[CozmicRooster]

I'm going to stay out of the Cobra vs. Firetek debate and simply say, whatever you buy, make it your forever system. Meaning, don't waste money on cheap Chinese systems. You'll use it for a year, maybe 2, then you're going to buy a Cobra or Firetek system anyway. So bite the bullet, and just buy the system you ultimately know you want up front. My $0.02

I think these are some pretty wise words. I’m in the same position as the OP. I was hoping to have a firing system for this year but couldn't make the budget. I’ve been doing a lot of research and reading. It’s not easy to find thorough information but the combination of this forum and some good YouTube rabbit holes got me there. I’ve really been struggling with the high up front cost of the Cobra system but I also know the value of a high quality product and customer support. The fireTEK system will also end up with a similar cost in the end but part of the reason I have, at least at this time, chosen to go with that system is because I can start small with one unit that has all the features I’m looking for, then I can expand the system a piece at a time, spreading my total cost out over time. I am going to +1 what Rick_in_Tampa is saying though. Do your research, watch lots of videos, and buy your Forever system the first time around.

[Birdman]

.... but would like [to] add 1.4pro.

Somehow I missed that little nugget of information....If you want to shoot 1.4 Pro, get yourself a pro firing system. Sorry I even added the Chinese import system into the debate now. Also, now that I think about it, if you really want to sit back and enjoy your show, you'll want to script eventually. WithReport makes a good point about all of the batteries needed for a Chinese system too. I had to buy a case just to store all of my batteries in.

[esgrillo]

Ed. What?s with the big quick NO (and did the period key get stuck on your keyboard:o)?

lol needed those periods to get to the minimum 10 characters.

[FWGuy]

Guys...many thanks for the candid responses! The recurring theme here, as with other things in life we purchase, is do you just purchase a premium product now at a higher price knowing you very well may get there in "x" years in any event if you buy a lower cost/less capable system today. Will look at the systems above...with a particular eye on the Cobra and FT. Looking to do a Diwali show later part of October and use this for the first time...time to roll up the sleeves!

[AxeElf]

I'm going to stay out of the Cobra vs. Firetek debate and simply say, whatever you buy, make it your forever system. Meaning, don't waste money on cheap Chinese systems. You'll use it for a year, maybe 2, then you're going to buy a Cobra or Firetek system anyway. So bite the bullet, and just buy the system you ultimately know you want up front. My $0.02

I know what forum I'm in, but this feels so elitist to me--as a person who knows that their "forever system" is a 1200 cue Chinese system. I know for a fact that I will never own one of the more expensive systems, for as little as I would use it. But I also enjoy scripting pyromusicals in my own division--the unmodified 1.4 cake division, the talon igniter division, the manual fire Chinese system with no audiobox division--and for being in that division, I think I put on some pretty awesome shows.

I love to watch what you guys can do with your more advanced systems, for sure... but I also get enough pleasure out of dominating in my own division that I don't feel like my life won't be complete without a pro-level firing system. You make it sound like if you're not getting a Cobra, you might as well not bother; but I respectfully disagree.

[WithReport]

but I also get enough pleasure out of dominating in my own division that I don't feel like my life won't be complete without a pro-level firing system. You make it sound like if you're not getting a [whatever system], you might as well not bother; but I respectfully disagree.

Dominate! Have Fun! Be Safe! NO doubt the discussion here took some turns. It sounds like you have a process that works. 1200 cues. Wow!

When I started with my Chinese devices, I never attempted a pyromusical. I did think about it. I have some Chinese devices that will step fire sequentially and at least had a well aid out show. I fiddled with the idea of creating a audible firing track on one stereo channel with music playing on the other. Essentially a human timecode setup. That is how some of the "old timers" did it. The shooter essentially wears a headset listening to the firing channel and it queues him up for the show. ---"Area 3, Cue 5" -----"Fire"--------"Area 3, Cue 6"-----"Fire"-----, etc. Have you ever thought about that? I'm now very curious how you manage all your cues. I imagine a good portion of those are set to the same channel ID so you are firing in parallels.

[Birdman]

This discussion is fine. Everyone is just giving their opinions. I never hesitate to recommend a Chinese import system to anyone that is questioning the need for a full featured pro system. It may be a good fit, or the only fit, for some people. I think the assumption is that if you're literally burning 100's if not 1000's of dollars in fireworks in minutes, that having the budget to acquire a pro system is assumed, especially if your posting on a pro system forum. The reality could be that spending money on a firing system could mean not having much, if any, budget left for fireworks for some people.

There's a few ways to look at it, all being expressed here, and none are right or wrong. One view is if you can afford it get a pro system and if you can't, save up for it and don't waste your money on anything else. The other view is if your not sure about a pro system or don't have the budget for it, spend the money on a lesser system and then decide if you want to upgrade to a pro system.

IMO, the few hundred bucks you would spend on a Chinese system is a drop in the bucket compared to what the same sized pro system would cost. It's not that big of a loss in the grand scheme of things should one decide to to upgrade to a pro system. Who knows, maybe a basic system is a good fit and you just potentially saved 1000's of dollars. However, I see the other side too. I spent about 250 on my first generic system and within a year or two I was buying Cobra gear. I probably should have started with a pro system and saved myself 250 bucks. Let's face it though, if a few hundred bucks spent try another system is going to put a pro system out of reach then it's probably out of reach to begin with. The fact is everyone's situation, priorities, opinions, experiences etc are different....and that's OK!

[FWGuy]

Well said Birdman.

[AxeElf]

Dominate! Have Fun! Be Safe! NO doubt the discussion here took some turns. It sounds like you have a process that works. 1200 cues. Wow!

When I started with my Chinese devices, I never attempted a pyromusical. I did think about it. I have some Chinese devices that will step fire sequentially and at least had a well aid out show. I fiddled with the idea of creating a audible firing track on one stereo channel with music playing on the other. Essentially a human timecode setup. That is how some of the "old timers" did it. The shooter essentially wears a headset listening to the firing channel and it queues him up for the show. ---"Area 3, Cue 5" -----"Fire"--------"Area 3, Cue 6"-----"Fire"-----, etc. Have you ever thought about that? I'm now very curious how you manage all your cues. I imagine a good portion of those are set to the same channel ID so you are firing in parallels.

The Chinese systems have a 1200 cue CAPACITY; I don't actually HAVE 1200 cues. I have forty 4-cue modules for 160 total usable cues. I only used 132 this past 4th.

I haven't experimented with any fancy cue set-ups like wiring cues in parallel; although I will occasionally fuse a few cakes together if they are intended to fire at the same (or close to the same) time. I have my soundtrack as one long MP3 file running on my phone, which bluetooths to the speakers. I have a spreadsheet with the cues and their times listed on it, and I just watch the time code on the MP3 player on my phone to know when to press the buttons (1.10 at 3:15, 1.11 at 3:22, etc.).

Like I said, I realize this is a forum for professional firing systems. I guess it just rubbed me the wrong way to hear that if you don't have a professional firing system you might as well not bother. It makes sense that the people who use them would feel that way, so I probably just shouldn't have said anything at all. Thanks for the thoughtful responses, though.

[Robbro097]

The Chinese systems have a 1200 cue CAPACITY; I don't actually HAVE 1200 cues. I have forty 4-cue modules for 160 total usable cues. I only used 132 this past 4th.

I haven't experimented with any fancy cue set-ups like wiring cues in parallel; although I will occasionally fuse a few cakes together if they are intended to fire at the same (or close to the same) time. I have my soundtrack as one long MP3 file running on my phone, which bluetooths to the speakers. I have a spreadsheet with the cues and their times listed on it, and I just watch the time code on the MP3 player on my phone to know when to press the buttons (1.10 at 3:15, 1.11 at 3:22, etc.).

Like I said, I realize this is a forum for professional firing systems. I guess it just rubbed me the wrong way to hear that if you don't have a professional firing system you might as well not bother. It makes sense that the people who use them would feel that way, so I probably just shouldn't have said anything at all. Thanks for the thoughtful responses, though.

I have 1 of the ebay 1200 cue and a bunch of 4 cue mods and even tho i have a cobra now 2 i still love the china system and find plenty of opportunity to use it every year it does what it supposed to nothing more nothing less. every off season i add another 12 or 24 cues because for the cost y the heck not

[topshelfpyro]

The Chinese systems have a 1200 cue CAPACITY; I don't actually HAVE 1200 cues. I have forty 4-cue modules for 160 total usable cues. I only used 132 this past 4th.

I haven't experimented with any fancy cue set-ups like wiring cues in parallel; although I will occasionally fuse a few cakes together if they are intended to fire at the same (or close to the same) time. I have my soundtrack as one long MP3 file running on my phone, which bluetooths to the speakers. I have a spreadsheet with the cues and their times listed on it, and I just watch the time code on the MP3 player on my phone to know when to press the buttons (1.10 at 3:15, 1.11 at 3:22, etc.).

Like I said, I realize this is a forum for professional firing systems. I guess it just rubbed me the wrong way to hear that if you don't have a professional firing system you might as well not bother. It makes sense that the people who use them would feel that way, so I probably just shouldn't have said anything at all. Thanks for the thoughtful responses, though.

I don't think anyone was really trying to say that even though it could probably be taken in that manner. Most I think just try to steer people into the "you only have to cry once" analogy of buying a system with more capability than you think you need first so you don't "waste" money on something you "regret". Personally I bought into fireTEK when the 48E was released and sold it about 1 yearish later because I didn't have a good place to shoot. My situation changed somewhat so when I started doing research on a firing system I was almost "sold" on the RFremotech items when I realized for not that much more I could re-invest in fireTEK which is a system that is far more capable and checked all my boxes for things that I thought I might want to do or try. I have no regrets and look forward to when i'm way north of 600 cues just because thats how many I think I need(read that as want).

Everyone does not have the desire, or funds, or whatever to go with fireTEK or Cobra or mongoose etc and thats perfectly fine. I also learned this year (and last) that no matter what your "plan" is as long as fireworks go off its unlikely your "show" is gonna suck even if it is not exactly what you "planned" for. You will learn something(maybe another what not to do), grow your skills, and still enjoy what your hobby is.