can you buy just canister and round ball sleeves?

[caleb90]

as the title says, can you buy just consumer grade cans and ball shells? only time ive seen them that way is during the height of the season and the one local shop puts all the loose ones from a damaged box in a bin. i tride looking on line but didnt come up with any thing.

[Salutecake]

I wish it was that way. Probably has to do with the rules, selling to the general public and making available everything you need to soot off the balls and canisters. If the mortar tube it wasn't provided, how many people would just, put on ground light fuse and run?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Rules require 1 tube per 6 shells. If shells are bulk packed without a tube they then become a 1.3g item. Don't ask me why---it is the CPSC and their infinite wisdom.
Maybe Joyce Knepp can add some insight to this one??

[displayfireworks1]

as the title says, can you buy just consumer grade cans and ball shells? only time ive seen them that way is during the height of the season and the one local shop puts all the loose ones from a damaged box in a bin. i tride looking on line but didnt come up with any thing.

Whoever is selling those shells loose like that is making a mistake. He should be eating the loss or giving them out to his workers or favorite customers. If someone gets hurt buying those loose shells he has no defense.

[jknepp1954]

Rules require 1 tube per 6 shells. If shells are bulk packed without a tube they then become a 1.3g item. Don't ask me why---it is the CPSC and their infinite wisdom.
Maybe Joyce Knepp can add some insight to this one??
Joe - you got it pretty much correct. To launch shells - you need the tube. If you don't have tube = you can't launch shells.
I know - it sucks to pay for all that pkg just to throw away - believe me - i feel your pain! LOL

[Justintime]

Feds require 1 mortar tube per 360 grams example 4 tubes per 24 pack of excaliburs , but only 4 tubes come in a 36 shells Goliath kit which tells you 9 shells in the Goliath can only total 360 grams.
As stated above if consumer shells are sold without tubes they are classified as display fireworks 1.3

[Jordan0885]

The transformation of 1.4g shells into 1.3g by not being sold with tubes has blown my mind. I can't wrap my head around that no matter how hard I try. Seriously, that's gotta be the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard of. This is gonna be popping up in my head for days confounding me every time. Wow..

[AxeElf]

The transformation of 1.4g shells into 1.3g by not being sold with tubes has blown my mind. I can't wrap my head around that no matter how hard I try. Seriously, that's gotta be the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard of. This is gonna be popping up in my head for days confounding me every time. Wow..

I'm no expert, but I think the reasoning is that 95% (or more) of "consumers" don't have mortar racks. So if you're buying shells as a consumer, we are going to force you to buy the tubes as a safety factor. If you're a licensed pyro, you're much more likely to already have the tubes/racks, so we can safely sell you shells alone as a 1.3 item. It's not that the shells themselves are any different, it's that the USER is different.

[Salutecake]

Perhaps that should be a new product line in the 1.3 category. I would be curious to see how much I could buy a case of excal shells for with out all the extra packaging, and tubes added. Excal tubes and some others are pretty heavy, I never weighed them but I'm sure the reduced weight and compact size without the packaging and tubes would lower the shipping costs. Pass those savings on to me as a 1.3 customer any day.

[topshelfpyro]

Victory sells bulk shells......

[Jordan0885]

I'm no expert, but I think the reasoning is that 95% (or more) of "consumers" don't have mortar racks. So if you're buying shells as a consumer, we are going to force you to buy the tubes as a safety factor. If you're a licensed pyro, you're much more likely to already have the tubes/racks, so we can safely sell you shells alone as a 1.3 item. It's not that the shells themselves are any different, it's that the USER is different.

Yeah, the shells aren't any different. That's my whole hang up. That's what makes it so nonsensical. Take away the mortar and you have to have an ATF license and everything that goes along with it. I don't care what they were thinking, that's ridiculous. I just think labeling woulda been sufficient, and if people can't understand that then there's not much we can do for them anyways. I'm not trying to be abrasive, I thought I knew how ridiculous government could be but I still get surprised..

[BMoore]

Don't overestimate the intelligence of the public. I've heard stories of people buying Excalibur kits and being disappointed there wasn't a sword in the box. By including the tubes at least people can reason (hopefully) that the shell goes in the tube. Without them, people are going to light them and throw them on the ground. The average consumer is looking at the artwork on the labels. They have no clue about what the products do. Also keep in mind that 99% of shell kits are sold to consumers who buy one or two boxes a year and throw away the tubes when finished. The people reading this forum buying shells by the case and having mortar racks are a tiny fraction of the market. Whether it makes sense to classify bulk shells as 1.3 I don't know, but I definitely agree with the premise that consumer shells should not be sold to the general public without tubes included.

[bigmike06]

Years ago a friend of mine had a firework stand. We sold his neighbor a few boxes of basic ball shells because he wanted to "shoot what we did" the year before. That night we kept hearing a weird thud, then his back yard would explode with a bang and the stars from the shells flying all over the place. This happened about 3 or 4 times before we could figure out what the hell was going on. My friend had a tall privacy fence, so we ran over and jumped up onto the fence. There is his neighbor with all of his family sitting on the back porch. We yelled over and asked what the hell he was doing. His response was he was lighting the "mortars" we sold him, and " How do you guys get them into the air". Our response was "the tube in the box". His response back was "oh, I thought that was just packaging". So yeah never overestimate the intelligence of the public to quote BMoore.

[Salutecake]

So it says.

[caleb90]

Don't overestimate the intelligence of the public. I've heard stories of people buying Excalibur kits and being disappointed there wasn't a sword in the box. By including the tubes at least people can reason (hopefully) that the shell goes in the tube. Without them, people are going to light them and throw them on the ground. The average consumer is looking at the artwork on the labels. They have no clue about what the products do. Also keep in mind that 99% of shell kits are sold to consumers who buy one or two boxes a year and throw away the tubes when finished. The people reading this forum buying shells by the case and having mortar racks are a tiny fraction of the market. Whether it makes sense to classify bulk shells as 1.3 I don't know, but I definitely agree with the premise that consumer shells should not be sold to the general public without tubes included.

this makes sense, i guess i didnt think about it thay way.

[Jordan0885]

Trust me, I do not over estimate the intelligence of the general public. I build cabinets for a living and I have to inform/educate customers about them all the time, and cabinets are something basically everyone uses/looks at everyday. They could be articles of pyrotechnic instead of going to 1.3g. That'd keep them out of most people's hands without a mortar. I think bigmike06's story about his friends neighbor says people are gonna do it anyways even with the mortars in the box. Anyways, I'm still flabbergasted by that law. Haha, thanks for entertaining my bewilderment..

[barehm]

Victory sells bulk shells......

i was going to say the same thing. I was planning to stock up on their colossus shells that way (cost is down to $1.81 a shell this way), but haven't tried yet. Maybe they'd say it's a no-go for me. I've never seen a better cannister shell even though I compare some new ones each time I get a chance.