Question about Contingency Storage

[Berserker23]

So I?m looking into getting my atf license this year I have a few questions before filling out my application my question is do you have to have Contingency Storage or even a job box if you plan on picking up the fireworks on the day of the show and shooting everything off that night I live in a residential area i do have a shed but it?s like 20-30 ft from my house and houses all around me would I be allowed to have job box in my shed my plan is to mix a couple of 1.3 cakes in my 1.4 show. I do 2 shows a year 1 small show on New Year’s Eve and 4th of July my closest 1.3 fireworks store in my area wants $300 for contingency storage a year

[BMoore]

You need either your own magazine or contingency storage. You must have the ability to immediately return the product to storage if you are forced to cancel you shoot. Distances for job box magazines seem a little open to interpretation but you wouldn’t want that as your primary storage anyway. They are limited to 50lbs of explosives. Great for a few leftovers but not nearly large enough for even a small show.

[Salutecake]

So in PA I have contingency storage with 3 places, and I think in general if you buy their products they will store them for when you need them, free of charge. I know Florida has one company that will rent space for fireworks storage, so now you have me curious, are you renting magazine space and can you put what ever you want in there, up to a certain amount?

[d34d3ND]

Unless they are allowing you to buy product at will, and store in their storage, my understanding of contingency storage is the same as Salutecake. Remember though, it needs to be "reasonably" close. This is very open to interpretation and really up to your ATF inspector. I don't have specifics on the distance your contingent storage must be, but I have heard everything from 100 miles to 150 miles to within 2 hours of your site. There are other factors as well such as some have said the distance is "as the crow flies" which can make this distance insanely far. As BMoore stated "You must have the ability to immediately return the product to storage if you are forced to cancel your shoot.".

My contingent storage is about 1 hour away. I would suggest you ask around and see if there is another place that you could request contingent storage from. Many distributors will do it for free because you are buying from them and them only, in theory, so this is business for them. You are not typically storing anything. You just have a place to return if you get rained out or shoot is cancelled. Otherwise, everything gets shot!!!

[displayfireworks1]

Unless they are allowing you to buy product at will, and store in their storage, my understanding of contingency storage is the same as Salutecake. Remember though, it needs to be "reasonably" close. This is very open to interpretation and really up to your ATF inspector. I don't have specifics on the distance your contingent storage must be, but I have heard everything from 100 miles to 150 miles to within 2 hours of your site. There are other factors as well such as some have said the distance is "as the crow flies" which can make this distance insanely far. As BMoore stated "You must have the ability to immediately return the product to storage if you are forced to cancel your shoot.".

My contingent storage is about 1 hour away. I would suggest you ask around and see if there is another place that you could request contingent storage from. Many distributors will do it for free because you are buying from them and them only, in theory, so this is business for them. You are not typically storing anything. You just have a place to return if you get rained out or shoot is cancelled. Otherwise, everything gets shot!!!

I have a person that told me the ATF approved his license for a 4 hour away location, but that does not mean all Inspectors will do that. The whole contingency thing does not add up sometimes. For example I have done professional displays that are a 6 hour drive from magazine. Some others are 2 days away from the magazine. If you think about it, the ATF does not limit a display company to only do displays within 2 hours of their plant and the magazine.

[displayfireworks1]

So I?m looking into getting my atf license this year I have a few questions before filling out my application my question is do you have to have Contingency Storage or even a job box if you plan on picking up the fireworks on the day of the show and shooting everything off that night I live in a residential area i do have a shed but it?s like 20-30 ft from my house and houses all around me would I be allowed to have job box in my shed my plan is to mix a couple of 1.3 cakes in my 1.4 show. I do 2 shows a year 1 small show on New Year’s Eve and 4th of July my closest 1.3 fireworks store in my area wants $300 for contingency storage a year
.
Depending on the terms of the explosive storage $300.00 a year is good price. Explosive storage is always in demand by both advanced enthusiast and professional companies.

[Salutecake]

Hey Dave, do you know of any place in PA that rents Magazine space? As much as I would love to have my own magazine, and perhaps down the road, renting storage space would also be great. I know if I had the space and could buy what I want when I want and from whom I want, well in general I would probably by more. I would love to be able to buy some of the neat stuff from Kellners and FireArt, but let's face it, the day of the shoot, is really not the day to travel to 3 or 4 places to pick up orders you made through the year. Most of us hobbyist have parties planned around our event, then travel to pick up the 1.3 and then set up, well I'm sure you know how hectic that can be. Just my 2 cents and magazine storage dreams.

[Crush630]

Unless they are allowing you to buy product at will, and store in their storage, my understanding of contingency storage is the same as Salutecake. Remember though, it needs to be "reasonably" close. This is very open to interpretation and really up to your ATF inspector. I don't have specifics on the distance your contingent storage must be, but I have heard everything from 100 miles to 150 miles to within 2 hours of your site. There are other factors as well such as some have said the distance is "as the crow flies" which can make this distance insanely far. As BMoore stated "You must have the ability to immediately return the product to storage if you are forced to cancel your shoot.".

My contingent storage is about 1 hour away. I would suggest you ask around and see if there is another place that you could request contingent storage from. Many distributors will do it for free because you are buying from them and them only, in theory, so this is business for them. You are not typically storing anything. You just have a place to return if you get rained out or shoot is cancelled. Otherwise, everything gets shot!!!

My contingency is about an hour away too.... FOI?

[displayfireworks1]

Hey Dave, do you know of any place in PA that rents Magazine space? As much as I would love to have my own magazine, and perhaps down the road, renting storage space would also be great. I know if I had the space and could buy what I want when I want and from whom I want, well in general I would probably by more. I would love to be able to buy some of the neat stuff from Kellners and FireArt, but let's face it, the day of the shoot, is really not the day to travel to 3 or 4 places to pick up orders you made through the year. Most of us hobbyist have parties planned around our event, then travel to pick up the 1.3 and then set up, well I'm sure you know how hectic that can be. Just my 2 cents and magazine storage dreams.

Try to find a friend that works in Mining in Pennsylvania. I have reports of people storing in their magazines for a day or two if needed. If not try to make the best of it or add an employee possessor to do the pick up and then they rest while you build the display.

[Berserker23]

So if I get a job box for my shed do I still need to find a place for contingency storage or would the job box be ok because I’m never going to need to store anything because I would be getting like 5-10 1.3 cakes same day of the shoot rain or shine I’ll make sure I’ll use everything on that day because I still think $300 a year is a lot for me because I only do 2 shows a year

[d34d3ND]

My contingency is about an hour away too.... FOI?

Absolutely!

[d34d3ND]

So if I get a job box for my shed do I still need to find a place for contingency storage or would the job box be ok because I’m never going to need to store anything because I would be getting like 5-10 1.3 cakes same day of the shoot rain or shine I’ll make sure I’ll use everything on that day because I still think $300 a year is a lot for me because I only do 2 shows a year

Be aware, and maybe one of the veterans can chime in on this, but your job box would still have to be inspected and approved by the BATFE. This is the reason why hobbyists will go with contingent storage because normally it is free. I know Dave says $300 is not bad, but you really need to find out what the terms are? Proof of contingent storage is merely a letter from the distributor stating that you can store your pyro with them. I have not dealt with many distributors, but I would think that if you are buying your pyro from them, shooting the same day, and only returning if something stops your show, then you are never really storing anything and therefore you are giving them $300 for a letter. I could be wrong, but you probably will not receive unlimited access to come and go as you please which is why I would recommend finding another distributor if that is possible. There should be someone on these forums that could refer you to someone with storage within a reasonable distance. Again, as Dave said, he has shot many hours/days from the magazine.

Definitely network around on the forums here as well as other distributors in your area. If no other option, then you may have to go the $300 route. Pyro is an expensive hobby, but an exciting one too.

[Mattp]

i recommend reading the orange book front to back.. every page... so you will know everything the inspector does as far as regulations..yes a jobox has to be transformed into a storage container(using guidelines in the orange book)..and then approved by local and atf.. but if you can do that,, you will not need contingency storage... if the place who wants to charge you 300$ is your only option.. you may want to speak with them again.. and explain you really just need a letter from them.. and in return you will buy product from them(once approved)... and when and if you ever need to use the contingency storage.. then you will pay the 300$... i think its worth a shot..or pay the 300$ just to get the letter.. and keep looking for other options for the future... and yes the miles/hours drive to your storage is definitely open to interpretation..and the discretion of your inspector.. what if you only planned to use the type 54 to purchase and shoot at club events, or open shoot nights... and the event was a 10 hour drive away

[Salutecake]

Thanks Dave, good ideas!!

[Crush630]

Absolutely!

FOI here too, the drive to the bunker is an awesome little road trip

[BMoore]

I might be overthinking this (I usually am) but if you only have a Job box magazine can you get away with no contingency storage? Say I have an indoor job box which is limited to 50lbs explosives. The ATF looks at my records and sees that I'm buying 100lbs per transaction. Obviously if my shoot got cancelled the product isn't going isn't going to legally fit into a job box. I'm thinking contingency storage would still be required. I view those job boxes as a place to store some leftover product or keep an extra case of shells on-hand, etc. rather than your primary storage option.

[Salutecake]

Hi BMoore, Well from what I understand in a job box you can store almost 100 lbs, gross, cause the net weight is about half of the gross, so 50 lbs. Now depending upon how big your show is, well that might be enough, I know 50 lbs adds up to a nice sum of shells, at least 3".
So without contingency storage, yes, you could not put more that 50 lbs back into job box, you would at least have to shoot off all your excess above 50 lbs to be legal. So contingency storage for most hobbyist is probably the best way to go, but 300 bucks? Most places I know of, if you buy their product they will store it for free, for a reasonable amount of time. I would be looking for that type of supplier even If I had to travel a little further.

Still a job box is a nice feature to have, just for leftovers, and I know if I had one I would probably buy some things during the year that my guy didn't have from other suppliers and i would have a place to store it., or just use it for ematch.

[Arclight]

For fireworks magazines, do you need a separate box for e-match? This is how it works with blasting materials.

[Salutecake]

I'm almost positive they have to be kept separate. So with just a job box, I don't know how that is done, unless you hand fire, or pick up e-match that day.

[d34d3ND]

If you are thinking of storing everything in a job box, you are probably not doing any massive shows. With that being said, you can get around storing e-match by using MJG initiators. Dave has a video on them and they are consumer legal. The difference between them and e-match is negligible and with all consumer products, storage requirements are the same as if you went to your local fireworks retailer and picked up some 1.4 product. In other words, you don't need to secure them like you do 1.3 product.

[BMoore]

Hi BMoore, Well from what I understand in a job box you can store almost 100 lbs, gross, cause the net weight is about half of the gross, so 50 lbs. Now depending upon how big your show is, well that might be enough, I know 50 lbs adds up to a nice sum of shells, at least 3".
So without contingency storage, yes, you could not put more that 50 lbs back into job box, you would at least have to shoot off all your excess above 50 lbs to be legal. So contingency storage for most hobbyist is probably the best way to go, but 300 bucks? Most places I know of, if you buy their product they will store it for free, for a reasonable amount of time. I would be looking for that type of supplier even If I had to travel a little further.

Still a job box is a nice feature to have, just for leftovers, and I know if I had one I would probably buy some things during the year that my guy didn't have from other suppliers and i would have a place to store it., or just use it for ematch.

Good point that it's 50lbs of explosive comp, not gross weight so 100lbs sounds right. However, you have to think about physical dimensions as well. My show (which I consider small) is basically a pickup load of 1.3product. No way it would fit in a job box. The original poster's question is can he get a job box magazine approved to avoid contingency storage? That's a good question. You could load the job box and shoot the rest same day, but you have to have storage for ALL of it if you can't shoot. Otherwise none of us would need storage if all we had to do was promise to shoot it the same day. I don't know if the ATF would allow it. From a practical perspective I've always viewed a job box as more of a supplemental storage option rather than a primary one, but from a legal perspective I'm not certain.

[Salutecake]

I think part of the original question was that he was thinking of getting his FEL this year and was wondering if he had to have contingency storage or a Job box. I'm not sure if you need contingency storage, I followed Dave's DVD and got contingency storage and I believe when my Inspector came and did my interview he asked if I had a contingency storage agreement, I showed him my letter - he scanned it, and we moved on. So I don't know if I said no I don't have a contingency storage plan, what would he have said? Can you buy and shoot off the same day yep but what happens if you can't and don't have storage plans?

I would look around for a place with free storage, even if you have to travel a little bit - get a letter - apply for FEL - Take a PGI course - try to work a 1.3 shoot with someone - get a general feel for what you need, and even see if the 1.3 is for you, then work on some type of storage plan if you like.

[Arclight]

You definitely need some type of "safe storage" to get an ATF license. That could be a contingency letter from another licensee with magazines a magazine on your property, a magazine you own on someone else's property, or a magazine you lease entirely from someone with a mine or old bunker complex, like Pyro Spectacular out here.

This came about because there were too many instances of dynamite, agricultural pest control devices, etc. found laying around in barns and garages. Even police departments used to be pretty haphazard with storage back in the day.

So yes, you can't get licensed without showing the inspector that you have some legal place to put your stash.

[Salutecake]

If you are thinking of storing everything in a job box, you are probably not doing any massive shows. With that being said, you can get around storing e-match by using MJG initiators. Dave has a video on them and they are consumer legal. The difference between them and e-match is negligible and with all consumer products, storage requirements are the same as if you went to your local fireworks retailer and picked up some 1.4 product. In other words, you don't need to secure them like you do 1.3 product.

I beg to differ on the Difference between e-match and MJG. I just looked at this again this year and hooked up a MJG match and a 1.3 e-match and watched them fire off. I will agree the MJG are good, may suffice, easier to store, and really I'm not looking to argue over this, but my observations say, they do not compare to 1.3 e-match. So looking at e-match and MJG, if you takeoff the safety cover and fire both, the MJG gives a puff and the e-match goes off like a sparkler.