Indoor magazine question.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

Question for all you FEL holders. I?m looking into getting my type 54 this summer. (Not for this season necessarily but hoping for next) I have people close enough to me to get contingency storage but I?d like to have my own indoor magazine just in case I have a shell or two left over and somewhere to store my e-match. I know there is no table of distance for indoor magazines but my house and outbuilding are in a fairly tight. neighborhood. My other option is my father offered my the use of his ten acres. My concerns there are it?s not my property and the property is about 70 miles away.

My question is would I be able to utilize either of the two options above? Or should I just stick with contingency until I can buy some property?


Thanks!

[Arclight]

I have outdoor magazines for my blasting business. You just need to draw up a lease on paper that specifies the location, that you're authorized to keep explosives there and any terms (i.e. $100/year or equivalent services, something like that).

The ATF will want to see that before the inspection. If you go that route, might as well go big and build an outdoor magazine.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

I have outdoor magazines for my blasting business. You just need to draw up a lease on paper that specifies the location, that you're authorized to keep explosives there and any terms (i.e. $100/year or equivalent services, something like that).

The ATF will want to see that before the inspection. If you go that route, might as well go big and build an outdoor magazine.

Thanks Arclight. That’s what I’d prefer to do if I use my fathers property. I should have enough distance to be rated for at least 5000 lbs there.

[cherrybomb1]

Question for all you FEL holders. I?m looking into getting my type 54 this summer. (Not for this season necessarily but hoping for next) I have people close enough to me to get contingency storage but I?d like to have my own indoor magazine just in case I have a shell or two left over and somewhere to store my e-match. I know there is no table of distance for indoor magazines but my house and outbuilding are in a fairly tight. neighborhood. My other option is my father offered my the use of his ten acres. My concerns there are it?s not my property and the property is about 70 miles away.

My question is would I be able to utilize either of the two options above? Or should I just stick with contingency until I can buy some property?


Thanks!

I have thought about the same thing and have made two jobsite boxes for that purpose but the problems I have ran into are your 1.3 product has to be stored separately from your igniters and if I'm correct that means two separate buildings.my father has 200 acres about 50 miles from me so I thought about going that route with a 20 ft container but working 6 days a week 10 hour shifts I doubt I would get down there weekly to do the inventory that needs to be done and documented...they can show up anytime for a inspection so your paper work better be up to date.I asked the ATF inspector about my dad doing the inspection and he more or less said he would have to go thru the same thing I was doing to get my permit.at 85 years old I know that's not going to happen...also living in Illinois the Department of Natural Resources would show up once a year for there inspection and I think the ATF is every three years even though they can show up at anytime.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

I have thought about the same thing and have made two jobsite boxes for that purpose but the problems I have ran into are your 1.3 product has to be stored separately from your igniters and if I'm correct that means two separate buildings.my father has 200 acres about 50 miles from me so I thought about going that route with a 20 ft container but working 6 days a week 10 hour shifts I doubt I would get down there weekly to do the inventory that needs to be done and documented...they can show up anytime for a inspection so your paper work better be up to date.I asked the ATF inspector about my dad doing the inspection and he more or less said he would have to go thru the same thing I was doing to get my permit.at 85 years old I know that's not going to happen...also living in Illinois the Department of Natural Resources would show up once a year for there inspection and I think the ATF is every three years even though they can show up at anytime.

I totally forgot about the fact that igniters have to be stored separate. My end goal is to buy about 40 acres and build an outdoor storage and an indoor storage and store igniters in the indoor. But that’s a few years out and I don’t have the patience to wait that long to get started. Lol.

[Arclight]

You just have to have igniters in a separate magazine. Type 2 magazines for blasting often have an attached "cap magazine" that is actually bolted on to the outside of the magazine.

The message I got from the ATF out here is that you only have to do a full inventory yearly. The weekly check is to see if there is reason to believe someone has broken in. I was told that an on-site caretaker or a neighbor that does a "drive-by or walk up and eyeball" inspection every week would be sufficient.

The actual law is as follows:



Any person storing explosives must inspect the magazines at least once every 7 days to determine whether there has been unauthorized entry or attempted entry into the magazines or unauthorized removal of the contents of the magazines.

[27 CFR 555.204]

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

I have outdoor magazines for my blasting business. You just need to draw up a lease on paper that specifies the location, that you're authorized to keep explosives there and any terms (i.e. $100/year or equivalent services, something like that).

The ATF will want to see that before the inspection. If you go that route, might as well go big and build an outdoor magazine.

Question on the lease documents. Does this need to be written up by an attorney or as long as it’s clear and well written will it work?

[Arclight]

Question on the lease documents. Does this need to be written up by an attorney or as long as it’s clear and well written will it work?

I wrote it myself and they accepted it. PM your e-mail and I can send you a sample doc. They just want to see a signed paper that spells out that the land owner knows what you are storing there, that you have permission to do that and legal access. I also added a section about giving me 60 days to remove material if they want me out. You never know if someone is going to pass away, get divorced, etc.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

I wrote it myself and they accepted it. PM your e-mail and I can send you a sample doc. They just want to see a signed paper that spells out that the land owner knows what you are storing there, that you have permission to do that and legal access. I also added a section about giving me 60 days to remove material if they want me out. You never know if someone is going to pass away, get divorced, etc.

PM sent. Thanks again for the help. If it works out I’d say I’ll be building an 8x8 magazine this summer!

[displayfireworks1]

At MidwestPyrotechnics ..
The standard advice is to get the ATF via contingency if you can first. Once you are licensed then proceed with the magazine. Not that you have to do it that way. I see you live in Indiana, the ATF is use to fireworks activity in that state. You get some of these sparse ATF license state and the inspector shows up to see a magazine , they are overwhelmed and start with the withdraw tactics.
By the way I never heard of Memphis Indiana until you signed up. I mistakenly thought you were in Tennessee until I looked at it closer. Plus I'm communicating with someone along that Tennessee/Mississippi border. LOL Seems like Cassabella has to close to you in Memphis.

[cherrybomb1]

You just have to have igniters in a separate magazine. Type 2 magazines for blasting often have an attached "cap magazine" that is actually bolted on to the outside of the magazine.

The message I got from the ATF out here is that you only have to do a full inventory yearly. The weekly check is to see if there is reason to believe someone has broken in. I was told that an on-site caretaker or a neighbor that does a "drive-by or walk up and eyeball" inspection every week would be sufficient.

The actual law is as follows:



Any person storing explosives must inspect the magazines at least once every 7 days to determine whether there has been unauthorized entry or attempted entry into the magazines or unauthorized removal of the contents of the magazines.

[27 CFR 555.204]



The information my inspector gave me during my initial interview was that you have to document weekly when you inspect your magazine...taking out our putting in product is documented on a different form .I don?t think they want any Joe Blow getting into your magazine to make sure everything is alright.This is the only thing holding me back from putting a magazine on my family?s farm.And I definitely wouldn?t want to get caught signing my inspection sheet weeks in advance to get out of skipping a week or two.maybe someone with a outdoor mag can enlighten us on this subject!

[tmwjr]

Can't you just put whoever will be inspecting it weekly as an employee possessor? They could sub when you're away or if anything else comes up.

[Arclight]

I'll let some folks from other regions chime in, but I was told by my inspector that the person performing the weekly visit does not need to have the ability to open the magazine or access to the contents - just the ability to visually determine if it appears to have been tampered with.

[cherrybomb1]

Can't you just put whoever will be inspecting it weekly as an employee possessor? They could sub when you're away or if anything else comes up.

My interview was about 2 years ago but the employee thing sounds familiar but he said my dad would still need some type of permit and would need to get interviewed also.I hope I’m wrong but will definitely dig into the orange book when I get off work.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

At MidwestPyrotechnics ..
The standard advice is to get the ATF via contingency if you can first. Once you are licensed then proceed with the magazine. Not that you have to do it that way. I see you live in Indiana, the ATF is use to fireworks activity in that state. You get some of these sparse ATF license state and the inspector shows up to see a magazine , they are overwhelmed and start with the withdraw tactics.
By the way I never heard of Memphis Indiana until you signed up. I mistakenly thought you were in Tennessee until I looked at it closer. Plus I'm communicating with someone along that Tennessee/Mississippi border. LOL Seems like Cassabella has to close to you in Memphis.

Thanks Dave! Memphis Indiana is pretty small. It?s just outside the Louisville metro. I?m about 35 miles from Jerry and Tim over at Casabella and have done a lot of business with them. Just bought the Apex system from them early this year and have been playing with it. Last time I was out there we talked about using him for contingency storage. I?d say I?ll do that for now and hopefully have something figured out for my own magazine by the time of my renewal.

[MidwestPyrotechnics]

At MidwestPyrotechnics ..
The standard advice is to get the ATF via contingency if you can first. Once you are licensed then proceed with the magazine. Not that you have to do it that way. I see you live in Indiana, the ATF is use to fireworks activity in that state. You get some of these sparse ATF license state and the inspector shows up to see a magazine , they are overwhelmed and start with the withdraw tactics.
By the way I never heard of Memphis Indiana until you signed up. I mistakenly thought you were in Tennessee until I looked at it closer. Plus I'm communicating with someone along that Tennessee/Mississippi border. LOL Seems like Cassabella has to close to you in Memphis.

Follow up question to this Dave. Is there anything saying you cant have multiple contingency plans? I have two wholesalers within an hour drive that have offered me contingency.

[Salutecake]

I'm in PA and have 3 contingency plans. At the second contingency plan place I asked if it was ok to have more than one, they told me yes it was, as long as I notified the ATF. So I went and got a 3rd contingency letter, then contacted my ATF guy that did my original interview and he said to just send a copy of each to him -- so I scanned them, saved as a pdf, attached them in an email to my ATF inspector and a few days later I got a response basically saying thanks I will add it to your file. That's all I know so far. Hope that helps.

[Kdreher123]

I can't find contingency first so I am looking at the job box route for storage. I talked to a company today and they told me it's $500 for magazine inspection. So I assume that's for business not personal use. I can't get ahold of my local ATF office for that info. Does anyone here know?

[Arclight]

I can't find contingency first so I am looking at the job box route for storage. I talked to a company today and they told me it's $500 for magazine inspection. So I assume that's for business not personal use. I can't get ahold of my local ATF office for that info. Does anyone here know?

The ATF doesn't charge extra for a magazine inspection. Your local fire authority or Sheriff might, Does your state require additional permits to run a magazine?

[Salutecake]

So MidwestPyrotechnics, here my 2 cents. So i would say first get your FEL, Get a contingency agreement, presently I have 3, I called my ATF guy and he just asked if I could forward the email and he would add it to my record. Next year go out and by your product, do all the paperwork, set off all your stuff and review it, try to get a feel for it - was what you bought enough or too much? How much more do I need? how may times will I do this in a year. Then try to determine if you really need a mag.
I would love to have magazine! I'm not going to get into names, but a recent post mentioned something about renting storage from a place in Florida. I already contacted them and said to put me on the list if you ever come to PA. I also hound my local fireworks guy about renting storage from them, I think I might be wearing them down, but really don't know what the rules are for something like that. I keep telling my local guy that if I could rent storage from him I would probably buy a lot more.
I was hoping Dave would come out with a Mag DVD soon on how to get a magazine or a job box. Unless I missed it I see nothing yet on a mag DVD. Perhaps it's to much work, cause rules on the magazine seem to be all over the place.
I would love to get at least a job box for the extra or leftover stuff.

Anyway. Good Luck - keep us posted.

[NewPyro93]

So MidwestPyrotechnics, here my 2 cents. So i would say first get your FEL, Get a contingency agreement, presently I have 3, I called my ATF guy and he just asked if I could forward the email and he would add it to my record. Next year go out and by your product, do all the paperwork, set off all your stuff and review it, try to get a feel for it - was what you bought enough or too much? How much more do I need? how may times will I do this in a year. Then try to determine if you really need a mag.
I would love to have magazine! I'm not going to get into names, but a recent post mentioned something about renting storage from a place in Florida. I already contacted them and said to put me on the list if you ever come to PA. I also hound my local fireworks guy about renting storage from them, I think I might be wearing them down, but really don't know what the rules are for something like that. I keep telling my local guy that if I could rent storage from him I would probably buy a lot more.
I was hoping Dave would come out with a Mag DVD soon on how to get a magazine or a job box. Unless I missed it I see nothing yet on a mag DVD. Perhaps it's to much work, cause rules on the magazine seem to be all over the place.
I would love to get at least a job box for the extra or leftover stuff.

Anyway. Good Luck - keep us posted.

I just submitted my application but I went the job box route. The ridgid 48" box was a little over 300$. I then painted the entire inside with truck bed liner which was 70$ for a gallon. After all that I went out and got 2 padlocks that fit the atf requirements for 35$. All said and done it costed me a little over 400$. Still waiting on my phone call for the interview but we'll see what happens. Alot of people go this route