Planning the layout for e-fired shows

[Fox One]

I've always done the hand lighting thing in the past, but next July 4th I will be giving e-firing a go with the cheap Bilusocn P1200 control station and enough modules for about 120 cues. Like most here, I plan to shoot off a bunch of 200 and 500 gram cakes (60 to 80 total) as the main body of the show and send up a bunch of 60 gram cans (about 200 or so) at the end. But I've never set up an e-fired show before or even helped anyone else with a set-up. So I feel a bit overwhelmed trying to design the layout. My shoot site will be about 150 ft wide (after I take down a tree that is currently in the way) and about 250 to 300 feet in depth. So I have a decent amount of space free of trees and other obstructions in which to work with. I'm just struggling trying to come up with the best plan for organizing the cakes/modules into groups that allow for a sensible and simple sequence of firing while reducing the need for excess scab wiring running everywhere.

I'm sure I'm not the first fellow to ever struggle with this issue, so I thought I'd post here to see how others have tackled it. As detailed as most of you are, I'm sure more than a few of you have well drawn up plans and diagrams of the complete layout. So if you'd feel comfortable sharing any of those, it might help me develop some ideas on how to best approach the setup. This is just going to be a backyard show for family and friends, but I want it come out as good as possible so everyone enjoys it. I'm not doing anything dramatic, just hoping to find a nice KISS way of keeping at least two cakes firing at once and getting it laid out nicely based on the system I'm using. Any tips, diagrams, vids or suggestions will be very welcome. With a little guidance, I might be able to pull this off without looking like a dolt. I would have never thought that show design would be the area that caused me the greatest consternation, but there are just so many aspects associated with an e-fired show that I never had to consider when doing shows cave man style. :D

[Rick_In_Tampa]

So here are the setup drawings from my last 3 years worth of shows:

In 2017 I started with 4 Cobra mods. It was pretty basic. I tried to have at least 2 of each type of cake going at a time. One on each side. The show fires from the bottom of the page towards the top. The black boxes with the small circles at the top are my mortar crates. I try to keep the length of wire from the initiator in the cake to the mod close enough so I don't need scab wire. That's the goal. I wire in series to ensure continuity, and I do it right at the firing mod. Helps save on setup time.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4556&stc=1

In 2018 I went apeshit and upgraded my firing system to 12 mods and a sounds system so I could do a pyro-musical. We had a 6.5 hour rain delay during setup time, and I wasn't using boards that year. I planned to stake everything in place. I had a whole row of roman candles and 1 firing mod that didn't get wired, and it was a disaster. But it looked great on paper!!
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4557&stc=1

This year (2019) I went back to using boards and life was so much more fun on setup day! The show was 90% wired by time it was time to put the boards in the field the morning of the 4th. If you're able to swing it, I would strongly advise you do as much wiring in advance as you can. Here's my drawing from this year:
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4558&stc=1

Let me know if you have any questions. Always happy to help however I can. Good luck!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

By the way... When it comes to setting up a show, your only limit is going to be your wallet and your imagination. Usually in that order. If you're not adding music; or if you just plan on having music going in the background, but not in time with the fireworks; then I would concentrate more on the pace of the show. In other words, figure out what your cakes do, then fire them off so the speed of the show changes. Maybe start slow with some willows... Then use some multi-level effects. Maybe some crackle. Change it up completely and use some different color go-getters. Come back with some falling leaf effects. Speed it up with some peonies. You get the idea. The truth of the mater is, you can have 20 min of fabulous effects, but all the audience is going to remember is the finale. So save a few cases of good stuff (crackle is always a favorite) and incorporate your 200 mortars into a "sky puke" finale. If you can pull off just that final 1 minute, everyone will love it.

Oh... The most important part...

If you're serious about this hobby, prepare to be pissed off after your show!! You're going to see every snafu and misfire during the show, and it's going to be upsetting. Use it as a learning experience for the following year. Don't tear down your show the morning of the 5th without checking every effect to ensure it fired. If it didn't, try to figure out why so you can avoid the issue next year. Sometimes initiators are bad. Not much you can do about that. Anyway... The point is, don't get down on yourself.

[Fox One]

Rick,

Man, thank you so much! The level of detail of those diagrams for each of the three years is amazing. You just don't know how helpful those have been in helping me to visualize setting up an electronically fired show. Thanks to you I already have a working plan in my brain that I'm going to put down on paper once I submit this reply.

My plan will largely be based on your 2017 show. It will involve two firing lanes of identically constructed cake boards. My equipment is different than what you have, so I'll have to make some adjustments. Each of my modules have 4 cues and there are 12 total cues per channel. So I'll probably put a small crossbar atop a stake and drive that into the ground right in between my two rows of boards, with each of the modules sitting side by side. That will allow for 6 cakes on the left and 6 on the right for each group of modules. I don't know if my P1200 can handle firing two things in series, but I know it will have no issues in firing two things per cue in parallel using MJG initiators. So if the former isn't possible for my system, I may go with the latter, even if doing so adds some extra continuity concerns. For rain protection, a super high tech plastic "thank you" bag can be placed over the top of the modules and secured to the stake. By having the cakes grouped in boards, that will also make them easy to cover with tarps. Now I won't have to bag each individual cake like I was previously expecting to have to do. Once the first 6 x 6 grouping is set up, I'll move forward and do another 6 x 6 grouping and continue to do that until I run out of cakes, modules or space.

I haven't fleshed out the plan fully yet for the finale, but I think I may end up setting up a couple of parallel rows of mortars using 18/36 shot fan racks lined up end to end and quick fused. Depending on just how many tubes and racks I can accumulate between now and July, I may up the shell count a bit. I do love cans. And I'm thinking it would be cool to have a line of quick fused 200 and 500 gram cakes set in rows to either side (and between) the two rows of mortars. That should add a lot of extra punch to the show and provide for excellent layering.

Ah, I feel so relieved to finally have a workable plan of action. Trying to plan this out with no point of reference has been driving me insane. But once I saw your 2017 show diagram, it all fell into place within seconds. That setup with a few tweaks will be absolutely perfect for my needs and will fit my yard. With those 40 foot long initiators, that gives me 80 feet of total width to work with. That should be more than sufficient for a two lane wide show of cakes. By the time I get out to the finale, the field opens up and I'll have all the room I need for multiple rows of finale items.

Thanks again for those diagrams. Those were so tremendously helpful!

[Fox One]

Edited for double post.

[cptnding]

Rick,

I With those 40 foot long initiators, that gives me 80 feet of total width to work with. That should be more than sufficient for a two lane wide show of cakes.

You are headed in the right direction and Rick's advice is spot on. Especially the part about looking closely for failures and trying to figure out why it happened. BUT......
Check those numbers in your post. The longest initiators that are commonly available are only 10 feet(3m).

[Birdman]

The truth of the mater is, you can have 20 min of fabulous effects, but all the audience is going to remember is the finale. So save a few cases of good stuff (crackle is always a favorite) and incorporate your 200 mortars into a "sky puke" finale. If you can pull off just that final 1 minute, everyone will love it.

Oh... The most important part...

If you're serious about this hobby, prepare to be pissed off after your show!! You're going to see every snafu and misfire during the show, and it's going to be upsetting. Use it as a learning experience for the following year. Don't tear down your show the morning of the 5th without checking every effect to ensure it fired. If it didn't, try to figure out why so you can avoid the issue next year. Sometimes initiators are bad. Not much you can do about that. Anyway... The point is, don't get down on yourself.

Excellent, and in my case, some very timely advice. I've done 4 small e-fired shows. Each one has had it's failures and successes. I treat each show as a test run for the next. The first, which I shouldn't even call a show was truly a test with some small stuff like roman candles, saturn missiles and a couple very small cakes. In short I learned that you can't just stick your visco fuse in the e-match shroud and expect it to light.

My second "show" wasn't much bigger than the first. It was meant to last through the singing of happy birthday at my nephews birthday party. I added a rack of festival balls and a single shot tube as part of finale. Only had 2 misfires (Saturn missiles and the single shot tube). In both cases the e-match fired but failed to light the fuse even using connectors this time. I was bummed, mostly because the one nice shell in the show didn't light for the "big" ending but no one noticed and thought it was great. The major takeaway was to stop wasting time with a bunch of small stuff and start sticking to 200/500g cakes and nice shells. Also invest in some HDPE tubes/racks.

My first true show was this last 4th and it consisted of about 35 200/500g cakes and a rack of excals. I had a bank of 6 happy cakes fused together not fire that was part of the opener but otherwise the show mostly fired without issue. Again, no one noticed even though I was very much disappointed that the opening didn't go as planned. Takeaways were not to do all of the setup the same day. I spent hours in the hot sun getting everything fused wired etc. Also, make sure all of the modules are turned on. I forgot about one and had to quick run and turn it on resulting in about 15 seconds of dead air in the middle of the show. The last take away was getting away from connectors and setting my e-match directly in cakes to make for more accurate firing and easier setup.

My last show was yesterday for my brothers Halloween party. This was only about 10 cakes and was for the most part a chance for me to see a couple of cakes I want to add to my next 4th show. I also wanted to try setting e-match directly into cakes. Additionally I wanted try timing my show to music, now that I would be instant firing my cakes. Well this show was major disappointment for me. Most of my concern was hoping I set my e-matches in the cakes correctly and the modules were turned on. I also put a lot more focus on safety by bracing my cakes and securing the shot site, thanks to not having to spend so much time on setup that day. So I start the music and go to fire my first cake only to realize I never turned on my remote after hand lighting a fountain that was to start the show. Nothing to do but start over without the fountain. When the first cake fired I was very happy because I was concerned I didn't get the e-match in the lift charge on that one. It seemed too hallow to contain any powder. In my excitement I must have skipped my 2nd cue and went to cue 3 instead. I though the cake was a dud because it only fired a few shots, I was too busy watching the song timer to watch what was firing. So I waited until it was time for the next cake (cue 3) to fire and of course it didn't fire because I already fired it. So now I have about 1 minute of dead air because the cake in cue 2 was never fired. However, the rest of the show, including the finale, went off just fine and it ended in cheers.

I was really bummed even though it ended well. I'm feeling better about it today. I even receiving several phone calls, text messages etc thanking me for the awesome fireworks. Takeaway was if I'm going to start setting shows to music I need to get a Cobra firing system and start using more pro line fireworks. Either that or place the focus on the small stuff and less on timing and music. Also, like Rick_In_Tampa says, people really only remember the finale. One other thing I realized is that it's actually easier to do a show with many cakes then a very small show. In a small show, one mishap and a big fraction of your show is lost. When your firing multiple cakes etc at the same time small mishaps will only be noticed by you. But again, as long as you end with sky puke, people will love it!

As for help with layout..... unfortunately I do not have access to large shoot sites with good sight lines, so my layout options are always limited. My July 4th site is is about 200 feet of lakeside shoreline but not much depth because of trees etc. My other shoot site has more acreage but structures like a pool, a shed and some trees limit sight lines and where I can place my cakes etc. That's a big part of the reason my shows are small. My layouts are mostly dictated by the space I need to fire everything safely and within good sight of the audience. Generally fan cakes and the finale go in the middle where there is the most room and everything else stage left or right (my wide lakeside site) or stage back and front (at my other shoot site which has more depth but narrow sight lines). The one nice thing about the Bilusocn is that you have many 4 cue modules to work with. So you can have each zone have 4 cue modules in different areas (e.g. Zone 1 cues 1-4 in stage center, cues 5-8 in stage right and 9-12 in stage left). The downside is you need to know which your firing where and what you have fired (i.e. you can't just fire the cues in order). Therefore layout really depends on how creative you want to get with not only your show but with wiring, fusing, module placement etc, to pull of the show as you envision it. I suggest you use a layout that allows you to fire your cues/zones in order to make things easier for you. No one is really going to notice how you had this affect going off here or there at the same time etc. Just keep things as simple as possible for you and give them the finale they're waiting for at the end.

[PyroKing31]

I fire off a 4 foot wide dock 20 feet long over the water. all of my cake boards are angled 15 degrees to fallout over the water and not on boats. I still manage to launch 200 60g cans and about 30 cakes.

Mount them on boards ahead of time. pre poke/match them. Then its just wiring in the mods and turning them on. I also use the Biluscon china special.

The size constraint is only as restrictive as you make it. I did 4 shows this past year on that dock and only one grumpy goose complained. He also whines about everything so we mostly ignore him.

[Fox One]

You are headed in the right direction and Rick's advice is spot on. Especially the part about looking closely for failures and trying to figure out why it happened. BUT......
Check those numbers in your post. The longest initiators that are commonly available are only 10 feet(3m).

Good catch. For some reason, I thought I had seen those MJG ingniters listed in 40 foot lengths. Turns out the 40 I remembered was the number of 7 ft. igniters per box. So yeah, looks like I'm gonna need extra wire after all to do the show as planned. Or I could opt to spread the 4 shot modules out side by side in rows of 3 and using parallel wiring, fire 8 cakes off each module, with two of the same kind going at once on the same cue 20 feet apart. This could be done easier and without requiring any excess wiring. But I still think the original plan (which turned out to be 12 x 12 groups with modules in the center, rather than the 6 x 6 groups I mentioned earlier) would probably look better. If I elect to use scab wire to increase my reach, I'll try to make sure I have everything pre-cut and pre-wired before setup day. And I definitely want to have it wired for simplicity and in order.

[Birdman]

I fire off a 4 foot wide dock 20 feet long over the water. all of my cake boards are angled 15 degrees to fallout over the water and not on boats. I still manage to launch 200 60g cans and about 30 cakes.

Mount them on boards ahead of time. pre poke/match them. Then its just wiring in the mods and turning them on. I also use the Biluscon china special.

The size constraint is only as restrictive as you make it. I did 4 shows this past year on that dock and only one grumpy goose complained. He also whines about everything so we mostly ignore him.

The lakeside site is my parents place. The site is hours from my home so my time there is limited and it's not easy to get supplies in/out. Not to mention storage space is at a premium. I don't have a lot of time with work etc to get up there but next year I will be going on memorial day weekend to do as much prep as possible. The shoreline has about a natural 15 degree tilt over the water so that helps a lot.

Plus I'm up against a couple of worry warts in the family (i.e. most of the women). We (my father, neighbors and myself) have been hand lighting fireworks there for about 5 years. 2 years ago someone lit a cake upside down. Luckily it turned upright after the first shot and no one got hurt (it should be noted my sister, as a toddler about 50 years ago, was burned pretty badly by a roman candle). After that mishap some of the worriers wanted to put an end to fireworks. That's where I stepped in and told them I would take over the fireworks and make it as safe as possible by e-firing etc. Plus my father is getting up there in age and was glad to hand off all of the work and and expense to me. My main focus since is having safe well thought out shows so no one pulls the plug on fireworks. So far its been working and even the worry warts seem to be looking forward to the next show. The plan is to slowly grow the show as I build more trust and experience. Besides, that will make it easier to top the previous show year over year ;) This year I was granted use of the dock if I covered it in plywood but I'm holding out one more year.

Now back on topic....Rick_In_Tampa is great source of knowledge and a very helpful resource on the forums. He's always willing to share and help. You came to the right place for advice!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Fox - I am very happy to hear that my drawings helped you. I'm a visual learner. I have to conceptualize it and document it to understand it. The more detail you can add to your drawing the better off you're going to be. ESPECIALLY if you plan on building your show at the shoot site. You may have noticed each cake on my drawing has an annotation for "M*, C*." i.e. M1, C3. That mean that cake will be wired to firing mod 1, on cue #3. When I write the script to shoot the show, I use this as a cross-reference to ensure I have the right cake/effect on the right mod and cue. On the 2017 drawing that you said you were going to emulate, you'll also notice the lines emanating out from the mod to various cakes. In MS Visio I can draw lines and it will tell me how far it is from the mod to the cake. So I'll know (if I'm using a 3M initiator) if it will reach a given cake/effect, or if I will need to use scab wire. Lastly... I use the MS Snipping tool to make "cut sheets" for each firing module. So everything on Mod 1 (for example) I take a snapshot of, and I paste it into a Word document. The big picture is nice, but it's useless in the field when you're trying to wire the show. If I'm trying to wire Mod 1, I only want to see what's supposed to be on Mod 1. By doing a cut sheet for each module, you will have that information. If you have people helping you wire the show, you can hand out the cut sheets for each mod and (in theory anyway) they should be able to wire the mod correctly. I also use MS Excel and I do another cut sheet for each firing module that tells you exactly what effect(s) go on what cue for each module. I tape that right on the inside lid of the firing module. So with the lid open, all you have to do is look at the list and you know what goes on each cue. I also put a piece of tape on each initiator with the mod and cue number. So you'll know when you're wiring the mod that you have the right wire going into the right cue. If you put a "x2" on the tape, you'll know you have multiple cakes going on that cue. Point is, I try to make it as fool-proof as possible.

I know it's a lot. Like drinking water through a fire hose, but you have time to digest it all. Starting now is exactly the right way to do it. Your drawing is just a plan. And as an old boss of mine used to say, "A plan just gives you something to deviate from later on!" So go into it with the mindset that it's going to change a million times between now and July 4th 2020! Because it is!! Lol...

I'd love to see a draft of your drawing. Please post it and maybe we can offer some suggestions to make it better for you.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Birdman - Thanks for the kind words. I have learned a ton from some of the smartest pyros on the planet! Guys on this site like PyroJoeNEPA and Esgrillo, et. al. These guys have forgotten more about pyro than I will ever know. I'm happy to be able to pass along what I've learned to help other folks advance in the hobby. That's what it's all about for me.

You wrote something that I absolutely LOVE!! "I treat each show as a test run for the next." That my friend is probably the smartest, inclusive, concise pyro related mantra I've ever read. Absolutely spot on. If you're not using each show as a learning experience for the next one, then you need to take up bowling, because you're not going to be a success in this hobby. Before you trademark and copyright that phrase, I'm going to put it on a t-shirt or two! Lol. :cool:

[Fox One]

I just noticed something......upon further research, my assertion that a P4 Chinese module should readily fire two MJG igniters in parallel might not be as much of a slam dunk as I previously thought. I didn't realize those things used twice the current of a normal e-match. The P1200 control station I have uses 6 AA batteries. But the firing modules only have 4 AA batteries. So that is only 6 volts, right? When considering I may have to run sections of scab wire to achieve the desired reach I'll need, trying to run 2 MJG's in parallel per cue could be a bit dicey. I think 9 volts would work just fine. But with only 6? Hmmmmm. If I do any parallel wiring, I'm going to need to do some serious testing beforehand so I'll know exactly what the limitations are going to be.

Or, I could just do something intelligent like Rick suggested and wire in series only. That is the nice thing about MJG igniters. I'm not stuck with parallel wiring being my only option as is the case with Talon or Red Dragon type igniters. And considering wiring in series will prevent the possibility of one of the connections being crap without being aware of it until it is too late, it just seems like wiring in series would be the smarter play. I'm reasonably sure I can pull off firing two MJG in series using 6 volts, even if I need to add 10 or 15 feet of scab wiring to achieve desired reach. Yeah, this one is a no brain'r.

Rick: I'll make sure I post up a diagram once everything gets finalized. I'm sure there will be multiple revisions between now and "the Fourth". Just don't expect the art work to be pretty. My diagram will likely consist of a standard size poster with Sharpie produced graphics. LOL. But I will take your advice and do separate sheets for each module and its associated group of cakes for use in setting up. The big picture means diddly when you are working section by section.

[esgrillo]

Rick offers great advice and is pretty meticulous with his diagrams. I use diagrams as well for major component positioning. One is a overall schematic of the site and another with specific locations for major components that need to be in a specific location to fit on my platforms properly.

I do not get to the cake level diagram and basically avoid that with the layout that includes exact locations of the modules. I use 4x8 pieces of plywood for my platforms so that gives me a dimensional reference that allows me to avoid the cake specific diagrams. I learned the hard way to use the longest lead MJGs or talons you can get, the 15ft versions except for my slat enabled racks where I can use the short ones. The long ones allow a lot of flexibility on cake location so you dont have to move product around because you need an extra foot of wire length to reach your mod.

I make "books" for my set up help. I have the script, module reports, and site layout diagrams in all of them. I believe the cobra module report is essentially the same "cut sheet" Rick references. I just use the one that you can print direct from cobra. Saves some time. The reference book helps a lot especially when the show is large. You will have to learn to accept some mistakes from your help lol. It happens every show.

I would also recommend taking a lot of pictures of your set up especially after you are done so you can reference it next year. They also come in handy if you make a video of your show since you can include them as well.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4560&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4561&stc=1

[Birdman]

I just noticed something......upon further research, my assertion that a P4 Chinese module should readily fire two MJG igniters in parallel might not be as much of a slam dunk as I previously thought. I didn't realize those things used twice the current of a normal e-match. The P1200 control station I have uses 6 AA batteries. But the firing modules only have 4 AA batteries. So that is only 6 volts, right? When considering I may have to run sections of scab wire to achieve the desired reach I'll need, trying to run 2 MJG's in parallel per cue could be a bit dicey.

I was able to fire 3 cakes in parallel from a single cue in my last show. I was using a Chinese system and 7 ft MJG's. I read that 3 MJG's per cue is reliable. However I'm still not sure what the limits are if you are using the fire all button and/or runs of scab wire. I've been wanting to do some testing myself to find what the limits are.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

A sharpie and a piece of poster board might work, but I would encourage you to use some type of computer program. If you use Open Office (which is totally free) you'll have the equivalent of MS Office. If you do a Google search on "freeware versions of MS Visio" it will return lots of options. I love Visio because it will allow you to draw in the exact scale you need. You're never going to get all the exact measurements for your effects, but the vendor websites usually have the measurements for most of their cakes. So you can get most of them exact, and the rest you can get close. It's not really that big a deal if you're going to stake and tape everything the day of the show, but if you're going to build boards it definitely helps you figure out where (or if!) everything will fit where you want to put it. Like I said earlier, it also allows you to draw lines to gauge distance so you can tell if your initiators are long enough to reach your effects or firing modules. Needless to say, it's a whole lot easier modifying a drawing in Visio than on a piece of poster board drawn with a sharpie.

Something to think about...

[PyroGyro]

I was able to fire 3 cakes in parallel from a single cue in my last show. I was using a Chinese system and 7 ft MJG's. I read that 3 MJG's per cue is reliable. However I'm still not sure what the limits are if you are using the fire all button and/or runs of scab wire. I've been wanting to do some testing myself to find what the limits are.

I found some video online at some point where someone fired 5 MJG ignitors in parallel from this bilusocn. I decided not to take any risks and went for 4. It worked fine. That said I suggest you run your own experiment.

[FruitLeups]

Maybe I'm operating on a bad premise, but wiring in series would seem to inject a whole lot of risk of some of them not firing at all due to loss of continuity? The matches I've used are the same ones I use for my rocketry hobby and, after they've been fired, a high percentage no longer have continuity which, if that happens to the first one in the series, any down the line that haven't yet fired will not get a chance to due to loss of current.

Or maybe I'm wrong and any loss of continuity would happen long after the matches have fired?

[esgrillo]

Maybe I'm operating on a bad premise, but wiring in series would seem to inject a whole lot of risk of some of them not firing at all due to loss of continuity? The matches I've used are the same ones I use for my rocketry hobby and, after they've been fired, a high percentage no longer have continuity which, if that happens to the first one in the series, any down the line that haven't yet fired will not get a chance to due to loss of current.

Or maybe I'm wrong and any loss of continuity would happen long after the matches have fired?

You don't have a risk of losing continuity. MJG or regular ematch are designed to fire in series and is the most desirable arrangement as it significantly increases match capacity per cue. Talon have the exact problem you are describing. It is a no no to wire talons in series, as soon as one fires you typically melt the wire and break the circuit.

[FruitLeups]

You don't have a risk of losing continuity. MJG or regular ematch are designed to fire in series and is the most desirable arrangement as it significantly increases match capacity per cue. Talon have the exact problem you are describing. It is a no no to wire talons in series, as soon as one fires you typically melt the wire and break the circuit.

Ah, ok. I assumed MJG was just nichrome covered by pyrogen (or some similar agent) which, is many/most cases, would just burn through. How are they designed then?

[esgrillo]

Ah, ok. I assumed MJG was just nichrome covered by pyrogen (or some similar agent) which, is many/most cases, would just burn through. How are they designed then? See pic. Two leads to metal end covered with pyrotechnic agent. The end and leads remain intact after they fire so the circuit is still active.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4562&stc=1

[FruitLeups]

See pic. Two leads to metal end covered with pyrotechnic agent. The end and leads remain intact after they fire so the circuit is still active.

4562

Interesting...this looks very similar to some other initiators I've used but they lose continuity about 20-25% of the time after firing. Of course, I may be failing to properly consider the forces being exerted on the ones I use, which are shoved all the way into the top end of solid rocket motors where ignition takes place. As a "thanks" for their service, they are then subjected to a few milliseconds of extreme heat & pressure while on their way to being unceremoniously spat out the nozzle of the motor at a high rate of speed. As I'm re-reading this, maybe I should think it a great testament to their design that they can maintain continuity 80% of the time after such abuse! :D

[hatsgoods]

You are headed in the right direction and Rick's advice is spot on. Especially the part about looking closely for failures and trying to figure out why it happened. BUT......
Check those numbers in your post. The longest initiators that are commonly available are only 10 feet(3m).

i dont believe so i have seen on a few websites that they now have 15.2 foot long firewires / initiators and they come 10 to a box as the 10 footers come 20 to a box.