Lance Pieces

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Just noticed that my preferred supplier Spirit of 76 is going to be carrying lance pieces. I've always wanted to build a few set pieces for my show, but I don't have a 54 so I can't buy quickmatch to light the thing. So I was wondering if any of you have any experience using the 1/4 sec per foot fast fuse on set pieces? If so, how does it work? Is it reliable and fast enough to light the set piece? If so I might give building something a shot this year.

[Robbro097]

Casabella carried 1.4 pro sticky match was thinking about going up theyr for lance and sticky match since they take daves ap certificate. I really want to do an American flag set piece

[FL Kevin]

Rick I built a few 8' tall stars one year for the 4th with lance and used quickmatch to light it. I did do testing with the gray paper fuse and it does light the lancework but not as fast and with the same fire rate as quickmatch. Never tried to put 3 stands of the fast fuse in a paper tube to make quickmatch but I've been told it as fast, might be worth a try. I have a few lance tubes left after my project I can test it if you want.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I have a few lance tubes left after my project I can test it if you want.

That would be great! Thanks. :D

Like Rob I'd like to do an American flag, but I don't want to spend all that time making it if I can't get it to light properly. If you don't mind testing the tube theory, that would be great if it works.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Casabella carried 1.4 pro sticky match was thinking about going up theyr for lance and sticky match since they take daves ap certificate. I really want to do an American flag set piece

Never used sticky match. Is it as fast as quickmatch?

[FL Kevin]

Not a problem Rick , hell if you want you can take a short 2 hr drive down and we can bs and test it.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Not a problem Rick , hell if you want you can take a short 2 hr drive down and we can bs and test it.

My daughter used to attend FGCU and it was a "short 2 hour drive" down 75 that always turned into a nightmare when some tourist would decide to test the strength of their front bumper against the center divider! Not that I want to appear unsociable, and I do appreciate the offer but I think I'll stay in Tampa. :D

[esgrillo]

this is good news! Texas and American flag?!?!?!?

[Robbro097]

It may not b as fast as true quick match but is awful fast and would make setup a whole ton easier heres a test vid i found https://youtu.be/5F2mQJblnFw

[Rick_In_Tampa]

this is good news! Texas and American flag?!?!?!?

I don't know about that Texas part... But the American flag for sure!!

I think Lynch is the only place that sells an American flag set piece, but you need a 54 to buy it. Seems silly to me.

[FL Kevin]

I'll give you and hand and help you build it and take that long drive to Tampa.

[Mattp]

I just saw those lances on 76 website the other day.. and thought to myself I?ve never noticed they sell them.. but guess it?s new.. I was considering purchasing that flag set piece.. but it seems Lynch is the only place that has them pre made.. and for me is a little to far a drive(one day I?ll make the traip)..but is a great idea .. I?ve never used the sticky match either.. but sounds like that may be the best thing to use for 1.4 lances.. it also seems to me like something that is wayyyy to time consuming .. but again .. one day!!! Lol

[topshelfpyro]

Not sure about an American flag but i used to do the year in 8' tall letters using lance and sticky match. Pretty cool and not that bad to make. Double headed nails will be your friend

[James76]

Glad to see some interest in this. We do have lance! It has been tough to get, so we didn't want to push it until it actually arrived. I don't have any experience with it yet, but if you have any more questions I can forward to Pyrotodan and see what he says when he gets back from China on Monday.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I'm going to want to check some of it out at PGI next month! So please ask the big guy to bring some for people like me to get our paws on and see what it's all about. :cool:

Are you guys looking into offering any set pieces that we can just buy? Like American flags? Make them without the quickmatch so we don't need a 54 to buy them. We can add the sticky-match or homemade quickmatch when we get them delivered. Just a thought...

[Zippster]

Never used sticky match. Is it as fast as quickmatch?

I build a full 4x8 flag every year and use sticky match. VERY fast to install because its tape that you just roll and stick as you go. ( 15 mins max to do whole flag ) As far as its speed, pretty much instant.

[topshelfpyro]

I build a full 4x8 flag every year and use sticky match. VERY fast to install because its tape that you just roll and stick as you go. ( 15 mins max to do whole flag ) As far as its speed, pretty much instant.

got some pics of that bad boy?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Rick--a couple thingss: sticky match isn't 1.3--it is 1.4 pro but most vendors don''t want to clarify that for some unknown reason. So you should be able to get it with a PGI D.O.C. or equivalent paperwork.
Quick match is much faster than sticky match but in the short lengths such as you would be using for a set piece you would not notice the difference.
There is a "slow" and a "fast" sticky match. Precocious Pyrotechnics carry it--I believe they manufacture it themselves. The slow is intended to be used for lettering to give the effect of someone writing and the letters appear as you are writing. Guess the millenials DO need to know what Cursive Scritp is! LOL. The fast is used for everything else.
When we shot our show at PGI in 2013 the junior pyros did some lance work set pieces and used the very fast [0.6 sec/foot] pink fast fuse to light their pieces and they all lit fine....food for thought.
We have gotten lance from Precocious, Dominator, and an unknown source at PGI...all three were different diameter lances. We originally purchased a bunch of the lance holders from Precocious but then found out the other lance would not fit it. I think we have some of the three types--I will have to check if we do & post the diameter of each. Would like to know what the diameter of the SO76 lance will be.
One of the reason you do not see people selling set pieces is that they are so stinking fragile and hard to transport when the lance is installed.
We just did an 8' x 8' red heart for a memorial service for some local people that were killed in an auto accident. It was two 4' x 8' pieces assembled together on site. Sticky match was pre-installed and 2 ematchesin series to light it..also several pieces of sticky from one side to the other to ensure 100% fire. It worked fine.
Rain, humidity, moisture are all enemies of lance. And they create a LOT of smoke.
There are lots of "tricks" to make set pieces light, burn properly, and look good.
Also several ways to mount the lances. Double sided nails, brads, hot glue, hardware cloth, rattan, pex tubing, etc, etc, etc.
Hope this helps!!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Wow... Great info Joe!! I really appreciate it. I've never played with any lance materials or sticky match, but I've been wanting to create an American flag and a "BG" set piece (initials of our HOA subdivision) for my show.

Next dumb question. Does anyone sell stencils for a flag or lettering? Or do you basically just wing it?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Rick--there are several different ways to make letters for a set piece. The easiest is to adopt the BLOCK format--where a rectangle forms the letters B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J-L-O-P-R-S-T-U-Z. The other letters use angles within the block to form A-K-M-N-Q-V-W-X-Y.
We came up with a very easy way to do lettering: Using a sheet of Luan it is cut into 2" wide strips 4 feet long.A line is marked down the center of the strip 1" in from the sides and a park placed about every 3 to 4 inches [your preference on the spacing]. Using an electric [or air] brad nail gun, 1" or 1 1/4" brads are shot through the luan. These 4 foot strips make up the form of the letters and can be cut or positioned as needed to form the letters in whatever size and arrangement you need. We use 1/2" screws with a pan head to screw them to pieces of wood lattice to form the set piece banner. The lattice allows the air to flow around the piece and dissipate the smoke. The lattice is attached to vertical posts and set at the desired height.
I hope this is easy to understand.
Making a flag can be done with the same technique: Depending on the size you want to make the flag [5' x 7' seems best] you can lay out each row for the colors of the stripes as well as the stars background. These individual rows can be screwed to a framework on site or in advance.
Using the luan strips with the brads makes for easy assembly. After pressing the lance into the brad we also give it a shot of hot glue for extra security, After you are done with the piece you simply pull the burnt lance off of the strips. Let the thing sit for a couple days and use a flat blade screwdriver or a 5 in 1 paint tool to pru up the hot glue and re-use the strips----or just throw them out and use new ones for the next project. They are simple to make,
Curves require just a bit more care in lance placement. The heart we made was all straight pieces and sharp corners--but the way the lance was placed it had curved edges when lit. I have pictures of it somewhere--I will try and locate them and post them. We also did a big star for a Lee Greenwood concert we did last year. I will try and find the pictures.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4318&stc=1http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4319&stc=1http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4320&stc=1

I didn't locate the heart yet--but here is the star from the Lee Greenwood concert.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Conceptually, I think I'm following you. Visual aids are always appreciated as they tend to make more sense to me anyway. Thanks for taking the time to detail this for me!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Okay.. guess I should have kept reading. ;) Thanks for the pics. Doesn't look terribly complicated. Very time consuming though. Is that sticky match on top?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Yes--that is sticky match.

[Zippster]

got some pics of that bad boy?

Actually....I dont, lol, in the craziness that is building, prep etc as most of us here have dealt with, I always forget to get final pics. I do have a pic of the rows completed just not assembled yet. Real easy to do. I use 1 by strapping boards at $1 a piece. Then do as PyroJoe does, use pneumatic brad nails through the board, push lance on and drop of hot glue to adhere it. 2 2x4's for frame poles and the strapping goes across them. I put 2 pieces of 1" pvc pipe into the ground earlier in the day/week so when show time comes I take the flag ( which i mounted 2 short metal pipes to 2x4 legs ) and simply carry it over and drop it into the pipes.
I will confirm what others have said though and that these babies put off a TON of smoke. Worked out fine this year though as the mosquitos were horrendous before the show and once this was done, bug control was complete. lol.
4336

[joed2323]

that's pretty cool.

5 years ago I proposed to my girlfriend at the time(wife now) with a sign that I made "will you marry me" using plywood screws and sparklers and quick fuse (it was all I had available at the time). It definitely took me some time to make especially when i made it in the garage and had to keep it hidden from her.

I had some cheap ass 2 cue Chinese system and had her press the button and the sign lite up perfectly using sparklers. then of course I shot off faned Roman candle rack and fireworks after she said yes. glad she said yes cuz I was shooting those fireworks regardless

[topshelfpyro]

Actually....I dont, lol, in the craziness that is building, prep etc as most of us here have dealt with, I always forget to get final pics. I do have a pic of the rows completed just not assembled yet. Real easy to do. I use 1 by strapping boards at $1 a piece. Then do as PyroJoe does, use pneumatic brad nails through the board, push lance on and drop of hot glue to adhere it. 2 2x4's for frame poles and the strapping goes across them. I put 2 pieces of 1" pvc pipe into the ground earlier in the day/week so when show time comes I take the flag ( which i mounted 2 short metal pipes to 2x4 legs ) and simply carry it over and drop it into the pipes.
I will confirm what others have said though and that these babies put off a TON of smoke. Worked out fine this year though as the mosquitos were horrendous before the show and once this was done, bug control was complete. lol.
4336

Yea, I never seem to get pictures either.

I made a set piece back in the day for the year that i reused every year. I used 2x4 lumber 8' high and 4' wide made like an old school led clock and drilled in holes for the lance. Really easy to change the year every year.

No exaggeration on the amount of smoke those things create!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Here is a couple pics of the Luan with the brads through for the lance pieces:
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4337&stc=1http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4338&stc=1

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4339&stc=1

[Rick_In_Tampa]

And you put the brads about 3" apart as best I can tell, yes?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

It is either 3" or 4"--I think they are 4". I will measure it the next couple days.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

No biggie Joe. I'll use 4". Close enough for a newb. :rolleyes:

[Rick_In_Tampa]

One more question. I notice you (and others at PGI) use lattice as a backing for your lance work. Is there a reason for that vs. a thin sheet of paneling for example? Is it to cut down on weight? Allow for better airflow? Cost?? Just curious.

I can get a case of 400 lances from SO76 for $80. So I think I'm going to give making a US flag a shot for next years show. :cool:

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Smoke is a MAJOR issue with set pieces--this is why we use the lattice to mount the lance work. Also, less prone to issues if the wind kicks up. We do a very large banner with four 4' x 8' panels for a local Hindu Temple every year and the bottom is 12 feet from the ground because the viewing area is across a road. Wind is a big issue when you are more than 4-5 feet off the ground.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Oh wow. That's huge! So yes, I can see why you use the lattice then. Makes sense.

Thanks Joe!!