21 gun salute ideas?

[Snafumonkey]

I'm pretty new to putting on a fireworks show, we have a family get together for July 4th where i fry fish and set off fireworks. My daughters and i used to hand light everything one at a time(very slow). I bought a firing system(ms32q) a couple years ago and don't know how i lived without it. I would really love to set off a "21gun salute" for my finale but my attempt last year failed, i made a special rack with 3 rows of 7 tubes and tried to use quick fuse off of one cue to light the first7, then fused the next row to the previous and so forth, my ignitor failed to light the quick fuse and when hand lit they were nowhere near in sync. Has anyone pulled this off and if so would you please share your secret? My dad is former army, I'm former marine and a few other former service members are usually there. Thank you in advance for your time.

[Mattp]

sounds like a "snafu" to me!!! lol... first off.. thank you for your service!!!! ooo rah.. sounds like if your igniter hadn't failed you would've been ok.. if your using consumer products the timing is almost impossible to get perfect..but i would suggest spacing each product fuse to your main fuse at the same distances.. and making sure you attach them well with the tips all facing the same way (facing the fire coming from the main fuse) . they also sell clips for attaching the igniter to the fuse which greatly helps the passfire occur... they really should just make a 21 gun salute product.. but the whole consumer salute thing is a whole other issue!! good luck!!!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I did one recently with three rows of 7 mini lampares--1.75". However, they are not available to the consumer.. It is a 1.3 item.
FWIW--I used ematch on each unit & put 7 of them in series. 3 rows. Fired with 3 ques from a Cobra.
Using consumer product is going to be near impossible to get the timing right. My suggestion there is to see if you can find a couple cakes that have the last 5 rows going up "at once" and dissect them & reassemble them in 3 rows of 7. If you are not experienced, or comfortable with that ides, then forget I mentioned it.

Another option is to use a coupe "slice cakes" if you have access to 1.4gPro items. 21 mines would look pretty neat--even though it isn't salutes.

[Mattp]

Another option is to use a coupe "slice cakes" if you have access to 1.4gPro items. 21 mines would look pretty neat--even though it isn't salutes.

oh yes.. thats a good call..less to go wrong with fusing too... not sure what its called at other places.. but SO76 has a nice photo flash one that could look really cool.. wont have the bang though.. or mines or crossettes could work too

[Snafumonkey]

First of thanks for the replies. Yes,i only get consumer fireworks, i don't even understand the 1.3/4. I will research that and get out figured out. I'm not dead set on mortars although i like the idea of them best. I'd bee happy with rockets or mines or whatever. I don't think my firing system will carry 7 ignitors in series and that's why i tried the quick fuse. I will attempt to get it right again, sounds like the 7 fuses off of one fuse and then the other rows jumped off the previous one. I think i only ran 1 quick fuse for my attempt last year. I will post my results, thank you again

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I'm late to the party as usual but for what it's worth, both Matt and Joe gave you great ideas. My first thought was also to wire 7 mortars in series x 3 and use 3 cues. Even consumer shells should go up relatively at the same time. It's going to be a lot closer than visco!!

The only other idea I had was to use mines or 50mm comets. Same thing, wire 7 in series x 3. Like Matt said, it won't be loud, but will give you 21 relatively closely timed shots.

[Snafumonkey]

I attempted one cue of 7 mortars in series and it didn't register on the test mode, tried it anyways and nothing. Then tried wiring in parallel, it registered and the ignitors lit up but didn't light fuses. I'm assuming my firing device cannot carry 7 ignitors. I suppose i will have to wait until i can upgrade to a second stronger unit. I was using the battery from my truck, after i got back from town(freshly charged). Thank you all for the advice, i truly appreciate your experience and time.

[Mattp]

I’m curious how are you connecting your fuse to the ignitor??? If the igniters went off the fuses should’ve lit.... also what type of igniter are you using??

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I attempted one cue of 7 mortars in series and it didn't register on the test mode, tried it anyways and nothing. Then tried wiring in parallel, it registered and the ignitors lit up but didn't light fuses. I'm assuming my firing device cannot carry 7 ignitors. I suppose i will have to wait until i can upgrade to a second stronger unit. I was using the battery from my truck, after i got back from town(freshly charged). Thank you all for the advice, i truly appreciate your experience and time.

First of all--what "ignitors" are you using? Talons, MJG Ignitors, ebay ematch????
The problem with putting ignitors in parallel is that you can have one or more bad ones and it will not let you know there is a problem on a continuity test. Two issues here--if an ematch [or talon] is open circuited it will not show continuity, but if put in parallel with another ignitor that is good, you will read continuity. If an ematch is shorted it will not fire but will show continuity. That is the most common problem with ematches. The small bridge wire in the head gets shorted where the wires are soldered onto the head--it is shorted, will not fire, but shows continuity. So, whatever it is connected to tests "good" but does not fire.
Putting ignitors in series requires the current to pass thru all of them instantaneously for ignition. If one is open---or not connected properly, none of them will fire. Putting ignitors in parallel requires more current to fire them and one or more could fire, but not all. Parallel connection requires more current and is recommended for Talons because they require more current to "heat up" the small nichrome bridge wire in the Talon. That is why they DO NOR recommend using Talons in series--You could put two in series and one will light, break the circuit and the other will not light.
Using the battery from your truck should have been more than adequate to fire the ignitors. I would suspect a poor connection--but again, the question--what "ignitors" are you using?

[Snafumonkey]

I believe i have mjg ignitors, they are Orange with a black clip, ordered from remotefiringsystems.com at the same time as my firing system. I have 5 and 9 meter ignitors. I had not considered a bad ignitor in series. I will attempt it again tonight, probably one ignitor at a time until i have all 7 wired up. I really appreciate the ideas and help from you guys. i have even considered trying to run my firing system on 24 volts, not sure if that would help though. They probably shouldn't sell high tech equipment to marines lol.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

They probably shouldn't sell high tech equipment to marines lol.
That is why you have us old Air Force guys here to help you out! JK.

24 volts would be better than 12. Good luck with it--and keep us posted.

[Snafumonkey]

I am scrapping the 21 gun salute idea for this year, i finally got 7 ignitors wired up in series with continuity tried it out and they didn't go off. They still show continuity after a few attempts. I even tried firing straight off of a 12 volt battery using a remote starter button as a switch, switch works used multimeter to verify voltage being present. Thank you guys for your help i really do appreciate it, i will figure it out eventually, I'm at least stubborn enough to make it work.

[Mattp]

You say orange with a black clip?? That sounds like a talon which is a clip on ignitor .. personally I have never used those.. so I cannot offer much advice for them.. but sounds like you are doing everything correct.. it may be possible to get a bad batch!! Good luck!!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Definitely sounds like talons. I hate them. Never have great luck with them. I only used 3 in my show last year and 2 of them didn't fire.

Buy some MJG firewire initiators (white and blue) and you'll have much better luck and instant ignition.

If you stick with the talons, remember you have to hold down the fire button long enough for the wire inside the clip to get hot and ignite the visco fuse. If you just press and release, that's not going to cut it.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Can you post a pic of the ignitors you are using? That will clear up a lot of confusion with this post and will get you a definitive answer as to why they are not lighting.
I see you are scrapping the idea "for now"--but I hate to see a problem or issue go unanswered or resolved.

[Snafumonkey]

Ok the ignitors I had (used them all) were talon clip-ons. I was just looking at ignitors on a cobra firing system page and it said the talons do not support series wiring, could this be my problem? Are the mjg initiators worth attempting? How difficult are the mjg's to use for Uncle Sam's misguided children?

[AxeElf]

Ok the ignitors I had (used them all) were talon clip-ons. I was just looking at ignitors on a cobra firing system page and it said the talons do not support series wiring, could this be my problem?

Absolutely. The talons only work when electricity gets to the wire in the clip to heat it up. When you wire talons in a series, as soon as one of them gets hot enough to break the wire, there will be no more electricity flowing to any of them. In short, probably only one of any talons you wire in series will actually fire--and then it's wire will break and none of the others will get electricity.