Camera recommendations

[joed2323]

So every year I tell the guy with the camcorder exactly how I want my show filmed and every year he does that exact opposite of what I tell him to do.
Simple, keep it zoomed all the way out, on a tripod, and dont zoom in and take auto focus off, simple rules right? well every year I'm never happy with the videos. The camera man normally misses all of the lower level mines and ground items because he has the camera focused to the higher level breaks

With that being said, I have an older go pro that I use and I do not like being able to see what it looks like before the show starts. From what I understand the newer go pros have this feature? Or being able to view what the go pro would film through a app on your phone? I also do not care for the sound with my go pro, I believe the newer go pros have the ability to run an external mic?

I am looking at buying something in the $200-$300 dollar range. Yes I know, you get what you pay for but I can not see spending $500-$600 dollars on camcorder only to use it once or twice a year to film shows

I am looking at a Canon Vixia HF R800, plan to purchase a wide angle lense for it and an external mic and a tripod
I believe I can turn auto focus off with this camcorder. I realize this isnt a $600 dollar camera and it may have a difficult time picking up Nishki breaks for example but with this camera work for what I'm looking to do with it, basically only using it to film firework shows? I dont know too much about cameras but is this Cannon a Pyle of junk ot what? I know it's their entry level camera


What would you guys do if you were looking at spending under $300.
Should I invest in a newer go pro or should I stick with a lower tier camcorder?

[jamisonlm3]

I wouldn't pay that much unless you want the absolute best quality video you can get. Even then, you'll need to learn how to use it. The last show I helped with, I used an older GoPro Hero 4 to record the show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJlKu_RdaCg). I think it came out fairly well. The show consited of two cakes and shells from 2.5" to 5". The camera was roughly 100ft away.

The problem with cameras like it and our smartphones is the aperture is fixed. You can't open and close it like you can on a more expensive camera. Still, they can do a good job. The big thing to rememeber is the amount of light captured in a single frame of video is tied to FPS. If you record video at 60FPS like in my video above, it will look darker than if it were recorded at 30FPS. The next show I record, I'll do so at 30FPS.

Another reason for GoPro is because of the lense they have. They capture quite a bit. The older wones like my Hero 4 can be found for around $100 with all kinds of accessories included. If you decide to get one, be careful to get one with a built in screen. Mine didn't so I make a mount for it. It stis on top of another mount I made for a smartphone. When everything is secured to a tripod, I use the smartphone as the viewfinder.

[joed2323]

I wouldn't pay that much unless you want the absolute best quality video you can get. Even then, you'll need to learn how to use it. The last show I helped with, I used an older GoPro Hero 4 to record the show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJlKu_RdaCg). I think it came out fairly well. The show consited of two cakes and shells from 2.5" to 5". The camera was roughly 100ft away.

The problem with cameras like it and our smartphones is the aperture is fixed. You can't open and close it like you can on a more expensive camera. Still, they can do a good job. The big thing to rememeber is the amount of light captured in a single frame of video is tied to FPS. If you record video at 60FPS like in my video above, it will look darker than if it were recorded at 30FPS. The next show I record, I'll do so at 30FPS.

Another reason for GoPro is because of the lense they have. They capture quite a bit. The older wones like my Hero 4 can be found for around $100 with all kinds of accessories included. If you decide to get one, be careful to get one with a built in screen. Mine didn't so I make a mount for it. It stis on top of another mount I made for a smartphone. When everything is secured to a tripod, I use the smartphone as the viewfinder.

What about sound and your go pro? Do you use an external mic? The sound didnt sound all that bad? Is their a way to improve the sound using a go pro? I would assume if I use some type of external mic on a go pro I would get acceptable sound.

I know it's tough to pick up the audio from a pyro musical clearly and loud enough with the fireworks, I know alot of guys edit in music

That cannon vixia R800 that I am thinking about getting I can get of Amazon for roughly $180. I would need to purchase I wire angle lense and external mic.


I am looking for something simple that captures as much as possible considering the price I want to stay around $200 bucks. I just dont see myself wanting to spend much more then $200 let along $300 max on a camera that I will mainly only ever use to film my own shows.

I appreciate everyones feedback and advice in advance

[jamisonlm3]

I thought about getting one of the cheap external mics for it, but haven't done it. For me, I think the sound is sufficiant. How old is your GoPro? Can you use protune on it?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Joe - I used a GoPro Hero 5 Session last year and I loved it. The phone app does allow you to see what the video will capture before you start to record. It has a wide angle and standard focus field of view, and it also records in 4K. I used it for my personal show (see the link in my tag line) and all the videos I took at PGI last year. I think I paid $150 for it. Highly recommend it.

You can check out the PGI videos on my You Tube site "Pyro in Tampa" if you'd like.

Hope this helps.

[joed2323]

Joe - I used a GoPro Hero 5 Session last year and I loved it. The phone app does allow you to see what the video will capture before you start to record. It has a wide angle and standard focus field of view, and it also records in 4K. I used it for my personal show (see the link in my tag line) and all the videos I took at PGI last year. I think I paid $150 for it. Highly recommend it.

You can check out the PGI videos on my You Tube site "Pyro in Tampa" if you'd like.

Hope this helps.

Rick did you record in 4k?

Did it take forever to upload your video being 4k?
Did you also use an external mic or not? I will have to look at your video to see what it looks like?

Any reason you chose a go pro over a camcorder, price I'm

I have the first gen go pro so I would more then likely have to go with a newer version.

Do all go pros allow for use with external mic?


#150 is more then reasonable it seems especially since the camcorder I'm looking at is right around $200ish
https://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-HF-R800-Camcorder-Black/dp/B01N7OAH3I

[joed2323]

Also, if I was to go with the go pro route, is there a version go pro I should avoid? Is anything above a go pro 4 or 5 sufficient enough to do what I need?

I'm not sure if any camera can capture nishki breaks very well? Maybe some high dollar camera

Also fps, what do you guys set your cameras at? So is 60fps not the right setting using a go pro filming fireworks?

As i understand it go pros are pretty basic, there isnt that many settings to adjust with the go pro. If I'm wrong can you guys suggest the settings that needs to changed to film fireworks?

If I put the go pro 200' back, just in front of the crowd is this too far back, or not far enough? I want to capture all the ground pyro and high breaks. I probably would have to do some testing before the show and light off a strobe for example and maybe shoot some shells up and play around with the camera and distance but i would want the go pro somewhere close to the music so it can be heard.

Is a external mic not necessary?

Rick--
How far back was your go pro, it looked to be pretty much perfect with capturing everything on the ground...

[CMiller]

The sound on the go-pro is controlled by the internal settings, it can't be adjusted. I bought an external mic and did some test runs. To the ear it sounded louder without the mic. I contacted the mic company and they had me send them the files. It turned out the mic recording was very clear and clean, while the on board mic was "dirty" "it still sounded clear and good to me, it sounded louder because of all the ambient noise it picked up. So yes, you can improve the quality of the sound, but the volume will not get any louder due to the go-pro`s hardware. I have a gopro hero silver 4, you can get rid of the fish eye effect by putting the settings on linear.

[esgrillo]

I use 2 gopro hero 5. I like them a lot. The field of view is huge without a wide angle lens and the sound was good at least for me. You can hear a lot of audience noise in my last video. I have also used a wide angle lens on a Canon camcorder and did not like results. You can see that view in my 2017 video that had the audience view portion. There was a lot of distortion in the image and some "flaring" that did not look good IMO. I went all gopro the next year.

Regarding the sound, I always mix the music track on top of the video anyway so I just pull the audience and fireworks noise from the gopros

[PyroManiacs]

Use the Zoom H4N Pro for audio recording.

[joed2323]

Ed- how many feet back did you have your go pro(s) set up at?

Did you have it elevated off the ground any?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick did you record in 4k?

Did it take forever to upload your video being 4k?
Did you also use an external mic or not? I will have to look at your video to see what it looks like?

Any reason you chose a go pro over a camcorder, price I'm

I have the first gen go pro so I would more then likely have to go with a newer version.

Do all go pros allow for use with external mic?


#150 is more then reasonable it seems especially since the camcorder I'm looking at is right around $200ish
https://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-HF-R800-Camcorder-Black/dp/B01N7OAH3I

Joe - I'll be honest. By time it came to fire my show last year I was pretty much brain dead. I don't even recall what setting I had it on. I want to say it has a "fireworks" mode and that's what it was set on. Can't swear to that, but that would be my guess. It didn't take long to upload as I recall. I mean, it was a 14 min show so, it took about the time I expected it would for a file that size. I didn't use an external mic, no. I chose the GoPro because I wanted to record the complete show, ground to sky. My daughter uses a camcorder every year, and she zooms in on the breaks. I like to see it from the ground on up, and I don't like to get seasick watching the picture moving all over the place. So the GoPro did the job I needed it to do, and for not a whole ton of money. I also bought a small tripod that collapses down smaller than a travel umbrella. Fits perfect in a camera bag or suitcase.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Also fps, what do you guys set your cameras at? So is 60fps not the right setting using a go pro filming fireworks?

Rick--
How far back was your go pro, it looked to be pretty much perfect with capturing everything on the ground...

As I understand it 60fps is "full motion" and should provide the best possible picture/video of your show.

I was set back maybe 125ft from the fireworks, and 20ft from the speakers. Having said that... Last year was my first year incorporating music. When I started the show, the volume was all the way down. Stuff was already going when I got up and went and turned up the volume. Even then, I didn't have it up loud enough. So don't base the GoPro's ability to pick up sound based on what you hear (or don't hear) in my show video. Besides... To do it right you should follow Ed's advice and overlay your audio track once the show is over.

[joed2323]

So I've been going back and forth on which go pro I should upgrade to and I'm not sure which way to go.

Hero 5 seems like a great choice, seems like it's right around the $270 range.
Hero 6 black is pretty close in price as well.

I briefly read through someone's review that said the hero 6 black has a better processor then the hero 5 and is said to work better in low light conditions, not sure how true this is?
The hero 6 black is discontinued so is that why certain websites I am finding the 6 cheaper then the hero 5 black?
Both of these go pros are discontinued right?
Now that hero 7 white, I understand it bare bones, doesnt have many features like the 5 and 6 but is it really a better option considering it does not have 4k video recording.

Do I really need 4k recording? Would 60fps 1080p be plenty for what I would be using it for?

On the hero 5 black, I do like the linear field of view feature. Do you guys use this so it automatically corrects fish eye distortion or do you go into manual settings instead?

Also is the protune feature necessary?

Some of these features I would probably never need or use I'm thinking

How big of a sd card would you guys recommend. I shouldn't need anything bigger then a 32 right?

Still looking to stay closer to $200-$250ish, but after purchasing sd card and tripod, etc I will easily be over $300 with add ons.

[jamisonlm3]

If you record in 4K, it will eat up more of your storage faster than 1080 and will take longer to edit because you're working with such larger files.

Protune allows you to control the color, ISO, FPS and other stuff. The big ones are ISO and FPS in my opinion. 30FPS is more than enough to record fireworks. The apertures on many cameras like a GoPro are fixed. Recording with a lower FPS will let you do so with while using a lower ISO. Higher ISO creates noise/static into video. The lower FPS is also closer to what you see with your own eyes.

Since you'll be recording fireworks, I don't think you should have to worry about the fisheye. You can choose a different FOV. The video I linked was shot in 2.7K with a wide FOV. I resized it to 1080. The only thing higher than that would be the wide FOV with 2.7k superview. Either way, they're all just cropped versions of superview.

The size of the memory card you buy depends on how long a show is and the resolution you'll be recording in. 32GB cards are cheap. Even the 64GB ones aren't expensive anymore.

Again, an older GoPro will work fine in my opinion. Used ones in great condition are half of what you're looking to spend. You can get lots of accessories with them as well.

[PGH_Pyro]

yes you should shoot it in 4K

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Here you go. Hero 5 Session $169.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1236582-REG/gopro_chdhs_102_hero_session.html/?ap=y&gclid=CjwKCAjw0N3nBRBvEiwAHMwvNl4cGzPLtEBnd6BISP-rvF9pAHz0anvz9BqP8nhpKNHgGykbT-QFiRoCBh4QAvD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

[FBpyro]

Joe,

I understand your frugality when it comes to investing in a camera, I have for the longest time just used my phone to record and have had moderate success. However there will always be limitations with smaller cameras such as GoPros and cell phones that make it hard to accurately capture fireworks due to lighting, color and sharpness. As a few others here have mentioned, most all smaller cameras have too small of an aperture (think eye pupil for humans), to allow enough light onto the sensor to record low light scenarios such as fireworks without introducing alot of noise and graininess into the video.

ebay is a very good place to look! I would suggest looking into used "mirror-less" SLR cameras with 1080p video capabilities. Interchangable lens cameras allow you such much flexibility in choosing a lens that will allow plenty of light through the camera and produce recording quality that far surpasses smaller cameras.

What you could do is purchase just the body of the mirror-less camera by itself and then wait a bit longer and invest in a lens later on. This way you're not cashing out $400+ at once.

I recently purchased an "open box" Panasonic GX-85 mirror-less camera for $400 on ebay with a single starter lens. It works great! and can even capture 4K resolution video.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311.R1.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xpa nasonic+gx.TRS0&_nkw=panasonic+gx85&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=celestron+telescope&LH_ItemCondition=3000&_dcat=74927&rt=nc&Features=Motorized

Just some friendly advice.

[Icooclast]

would this be a good camera to shoot fireworks with?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-VIXIA-HF-R800-HD-Camcorder-Black-80GB-Accessory-Kit-Tripod/192442296665?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3Ddb037 ed251014359887a1c7793aae5e1%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D 6%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D392308890651%26itm%3D1924422966 65&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%3A11c9f0b2-8e77-11e9-b052-74dbd180777b%7Cparentrq%3A54ea3f0a16b0a4d27671892f ffdd97da%7Ciid%3A1

[PyroManiacs]

I was looking at this same one, Icooclast.

[joed2323]

would this be a good camera to shoot fireworks with?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-VIXIA-HF-R800-HD-Camcorder-Black-80GB-Accessory-Kit-Tripod/192442296665?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3Ddb037 ed251014359887a1c7793aae5e1%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D 6%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D392308890651%26itm%3D1924422966 65&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%3A11c9f0b2-8e77-11e9-b052-74dbd180777b%7Cparentrq%3A54ea3f0a16b0a4d27671892f ffdd97da%7Ciid%3A1

If you look back into this thread I had this one mentioned.

I would advise you to invest in a wide angle lense for this camera and also an external mic for better sound

[Icooclast]

If you look back into this thread I had this one mentioned.

I would advise you to invest in a wide angle lense for this camera and also an external mic for better sound

thanks for your input joe. i found a little bit more expensive version (same pretty much same camera and most accessories. included is this:

0.43X Wide Angle Lens w/ Macro Portion

The 0.43x Wide Conversion Lens allows you to expand the angle of view of your video or still camera lens. It offers an angle of view 43% wider than the host lens.

Gives 0.43x wider angle of view than host lens
Anti-reflective coating
Infrared compatible
Steal barrel design

is it any good? thanks in advance

[joed2323]

thanks for your input joe. i found a little bit more expensive version (same pretty much same camera and most accessories. included is this:

0.43X Wide Angle Lens w/ Macro Portion

The 0.43x Wide Conversion Lens allows you to expand the angle of view of your video or still camera lens. It offers an angle of view 43% wider than the host lens.

Gives 0.43x wider angle of view than host lens
Anti-reflective coating
Infrared compatible
Steal barrel design

is it any good? thanks in advance

Sounds about right. The wife angle lense that I have seen mention before for this camera https://www.amazon.com/Camcorder-Definition-LensPen-Cleaning-Keeper/dp/B007OX85V2

Sounds like the same one you mentioned

[joed2323]

So I family member gave me a free go pro hero 3 silver.

Any recommendations on settings I should choose with this camera to achieve best viewing?

I dont think I'm going to pick up a camera now since this was free? I was about to pull the trigger on getting a go pro 4 but I dont see the major differences of doing so

Do you think 200' back from the fireworks on a 3 position show with the positions spaced 50ft apart will be good? I shouldnt need to point it upwards any?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

So I family member gave me a free go pro hero 3 silver.

Any recommendations on settings I should choose with this camera to achieve best viewing?

I dont think I'm going to pick up a camera now since this was free? I was about to pull the trigger on getting a go pro 4 but I dont see the major differences of doing so

Do you think 200' back from the fireworks on a 3 position show with the positions spaced 50ft apart will be good? I shouldnt need to point it upwards any?

I'm assuming the Go Pro app will allow you to control the camera form your phone. So I would recommend you get a tripod and take the camera to your shoot site and play with the settings so you can see what's it's going to see. I have the Hero 5 session and when I have it set to have the base of my show at the bottom of the viewing screen, it easily captures everything from the ground up, and side to side. With room to spare. I think the angle on it is damn near 180 degrees left to right. My guess is your camera will operate about the same.

[jamisonlm3]

I have to agree with Rick. A tripod is a must. Take your camera to the shoot site, set up flags where your positions will be and experiment. I think you're underestimating how much your GoPro can capture. I recorded a show last night and I'm planning to crop it a bit. We shot up to 6" shells and also had 4 cakes. I recorded from roughly 100ft away. I was concerned if I would even get the cakes in the video because the GoPro was almost pointed straight up in the night sky, but it got them. If anything, I could've angled it down some. If you want, I'll upload both versions so you can see for yourself. One will be the raw video and the other, the cropped and resized video.