insurance

[UniversalPyro]

anyone carry insurance for personal 1.3 shooting? what are the costs and options, i checked with the local advertiser and they said $3500 year for 50,000 cover - let me know what you have or options, - tired of people wanting fireworks, but when you have no insurance your really screwed.
Also, anyone in local PA want to get together sometime and shoot? Maybe we can get a group together and buy some stuff and shoot.

Universalpyro

[J's12talk]

Kneppys is sponsoring the november PPA meet and shoot which I will be attending. You and anyone else that is interested should come join and shoot. I just got back from a Sisters sponsored PPA shoot this weekend. I had the time of my life met some great people and got to check out their product line in person. NICE! Belonging to the clubs that I do has allowed me to connect with a vast number of other hard core fireworks people. When your hanging out eating steak with the president of the NFA you know your doing something right.

[UniversalPyro]

That sounds great, when is the date? I do belong with PPA but have no updates on whats going on, i will have to get in touch with them....

[Pyro Nation]

Im up anytime for shooting.. i got a bunch of Tannerite Items I would like to let go....lol

[jknepp1954]

The PPA members should have all got thier newsletter this past week. But i will pm you with info on our Nov shoot.
Joyce

[Pyro Nation]

I'm looking to join. I have the app. And just cleared that weekend with the wife.

[J's12talk]

I'm looking to join. I have the app. And just cleared that weekend with the wife.

OK, so far it looks like you, universal and myself are in. With a little luck we can get pyrojoe and couple more guys to show.

[Pyro Nation]

That would be cool. I will be staying over night.. If some are to we can go out after grab a drink...

[UniversalPyro]

so do we go buy stuff and bring it there? or do they have stuff there you can buy? Pyroliffic, we'll have to see whats around the area for after the demo. Someone bring the 8 inch mortar and i can supply the shells and firing system.

[Pyro Nation]

I will be bringing my Cobra system with 4 modules..... Joyce said you can buy stuff from here .. she said she most of the time brings stuff to the site to vend/sell as well

[J's12talk]

so do we go buy stuff and bring it there? or do they have stuff there you can buy? Pyroliffic, we'll have to see whats around the area for after the demo. Someone bring the 8 inch mortar and i can supply the shells and firing system.

Product wise Kneppy's will have all the 1.4g that your credit card can buy. You also can bring and shoot any 1.4g that you want. As far as 1.3g you can shoot only small stuff, maybe as big as 3" but thats about it. We have shot there a lot and the natives are restless. Oops!

[UniversalPyro]

3 inch / 8 inch, whats the difference? lol...i actually will stop on the way and buy some great 1.3 cakes. Pyroliffic, how is the cobra working for ya? do you use for personal use or do you do shows? Ive used mine for 7 shows so far and it worked great. There coming out with a new remote to work with finale fireworks and do shows with music or just program the show. It will be really great. What we need to do is buy a bunch of stuff and put your cobra to work and do a show while were there. J's12talk can bring the 8 inch shells, which i bet he shoots them suckers all the time since he swoks for the big companies. Biggest i shoot is the 5 inch shells and they can kick pretty good. Recently though ive been doing more 1.3 cakes with the shoots, i really like the things they do. and them mix em with shells and you got a really goood show.

[J's12talk]

I shoot up to 12" shells for the company I work for but a good portion of the shows don't go bigger than 6". Just shy of 25 shoots so far this year. Tired yes, sick of it no!

[Pyro Nation]

I have used mine for 6 shows so far.....I love them...I have 2 more modules on the way as well.Was talking with Scott when i was reprogramming my modules and current remote with the reprogrammer I bought from him. Saves the hassle of having to ship modules back when new software is out.

The new remote and Finale software sounds awesome.. Cant wait....

I plan on buying some 1.4 from Kneppy's.... Not sure where I can get some 1.3 that area... unless Zach's is neat there..

[UniversalPyro]

thats awesome! Do you do electronic firing or all hand firing? Also, do you have any video of your shows?

[J's12talk]

thats awesome! Do you do electronic firing or all hand firing? Also, do you have any video of your shows?

We hand fire and use a fireone system. Youtube outer harbor fest and the two displays that pop are shoots that I've done.

[jknepp1954]

Product wise Kneppy's will have all the 1.4g that your credit card can buy. You also can bring and shoot any 1.4g that you want. As far as 1.3g you can shoot only small stuff, maybe as big as 3" but thats about it. We have shot there a lot and the natives are restless. Oops!
J - there is actually room there for up to 8" shells - actually, the first couple years we did our demos and still handled B product - we had demoed 10" shells as well. I say 8" as the 10" was really pushing the envelope at that time...
But considering all the guys out there shooting in open shooting - the smaller say like 5's or 6's may be better - unless we clear the field first for safety reasons.
We like to shut the SALUTES down by 7 pm - that is to keep the natives from getting restless - LOL
I haven't heard from any of the other vendors who is or not coming. Some of them don't announce anything until just a few days beforehand.

[Pyro Nation]

Is it ok to be pumped for a first club meet...lol ... Dont know why I waited... guess I really didnt think of it. I knew they were there but this forum actually got me to the point of going to a club....

[PyroJoeNEPA]

OK, so far it looks like you, universal and myself are in. With a little luck we can get pyrojoe and couple more guys to show.

I'm working on it Jay! I just got back from the CrackerJacks event last weekend. I worked with Mike Bixler --Bixler Pyrotechnis of Ashland PA--who did the PyroMusical [1.3g] sat night for the club's 35th anniversary. It was awesome. 2 1/2" up to 12" shells, lots of ground effects [comets, mines, strobes,Dragons Breath] Lampares, etc. 50 some modules on a FireOne system, I think around 1800 shells & numerous cakes. He did a great job on the timing, music, etc. I can't wait for Dave to get the video edited & posted so everyone can see it.
Anyway, I thought I wouldn't be able to work the event since Sunday was our 35th anniversary, but my wife--the awesome woman that she is--said to go & we could celebrate our anniversary this weekend. I did shoot up a bunch of shells for her this past monday night!
So now I have to work on the PPA November shoot. I am planning to go but have to work it out with her first.....she doesn't know about it yet!
It would be great if we can all get together finally!

[UniversalPyro]

it would be great if everyone can make it. Saw the videos J's and they looked really good. Pyroliffic, the only thing i dont like about the cobra is there constantly upgrading things and then you have to upgrade and pay some more money for the upgrades, hopefully they can sell one system and it stays a while without upgrades.

[Pyro Nation]

Well, ya have to figure they are getting started and adding... The only real upgrade right now that would change if ya wanted it would be the remote coming out in the spring....

I bought a reprogrammer from him and just update software that he has myself now...

[Pyro Nation]

Forgot to ask... Seeing how this is my first Group meet.. How does it work for the 1.3 items. Say I buy some and bring them... What kind of documentation would work for this. I know the ATF lady told me,... Video, permit would be best, they would take your word you used them unless hear otherwise. I am just wondering is all

[J's12talk]

Forgot to ask... Seeing how this is my first Group meet.. How does it work for the 1.3 items. Say I buy some and bring them... What kind of documentation would work for this. I know the ATF lady told me,... Video, permit would be best, they would take your word you used them unless hear otherwise. I am just wondering is all

Have the invoice stapled to a sheet with the company name, invoice number, date, place, event and if all the product was shot or not. If not, list what was not shot and that it was returned to a mag.. Make sure the product is in the mag. and on the inventory sheet.

[J's12talk]

J - there is actually room there for up to 8" shells - actually, the first couple years we did our demos and still handled B product - we had demoed 10" shells as well. I say 8" as the 10" was really pushing the envelope at that time...
But considering all the guys out there shooting in open shooting - the smaller say like 5's or 6's may be better - unless we clear the field first for safety reasons.
We like to shut the SALUTES down by 7 pm - that is to keep the natives from getting restless - LOL
I haven't heard from any of the other vendors who is or not coming. Some of them don't announce anything until just a few days beforehand.

I could of swore it was baby "B" only. My mistake does Oop's work now?

[J's12talk]

Zach from I.P.I. will be coming so place your orders.

[fatcat]

Hold it, You guys that live in and near PA have at it. HAVE A GREAT TIME, WISh I COULD BE THERE. However the first half of the OP asked about insurance if you are using 1.3 products in your personal ( i.e. not for profit shows.) Dave says one of his reasons for starting this site was to increase the hobbyist's ability to get better pyro products. Now for us guys that live in semi-fireworks friendly states that only shoot once or twice a year and would like to get the atf license, the original question has not been answered. If I use even one 1.3 device in my personal show , do I need to get insurance to be legal? If you go to the "other pyro site" they seem to concur that using any kind of 1.3 product opens up a lot of issues that are moot if using 1.4 (consumer) products. Don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but still think the original question needs to be addressed. Sorry if this makes you angry and any mod can feel free to move or remove this comment, but I don't feel the origianl question has been properly addressed.

[Pyro Nation]

Zach from I.P.I. will be coming so place your orders.

Yes he is.. Got some list of items he has in stock.. if anyone would like them

[J's12talk]

Hold it, You guys that live in and near PA have at it. HAVE A GREAT TIME, WISh I COULD BE THERE. However the first half of the OP asked about insurance if you are using 1.3 products in your personal ( i.e. not for profit shows.) Dave says one of his reasons for starting this site was to increase the hobbyist's ability to get better pyro products. Now for us guys that live in semi-fireworks friendly states that only shoot once or twice a year and would like to get the atf license, the original question has not been answered. If I use even one 1.3 device in my personal show , do I need to get insurance to be legal? If you go to the "other pyro site" they seem to concur that using any kind of 1.3 product opens up a lot of issues that are moot if using 1.4 (consumer) products. Don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but still think the original question needs to be addressed. Sorry if this makes you angry and any mod can feel free to move or remove this comment, but I don't feel the origianl question has been properly addressed.

Sorry fatcat but we got caught up in the fact that a group of us are going to be playing in the same sandbox together. The fact that a bunch of guys that met on this site are going to get together is a great thing to happen for this site. It is locking in this site as a place where friends get together.

[Pyro Nation]

I have to agree with J.... I think it is AWESOME... something like this site can bring a bunch of people from everywhere's together to enjoy the "pyro" profession.... I still feel like a kid when I even think about fireworks... smile and get all excited


On your insurance question... in PA I been told a few different things...


If I am getting paid to do the show for profit..then INSURANCE needs to be there...

If for myself and friends there still needs to be a permit, but laws change since not in the PROFIT part of it... becomes commerce then

[J's12talk]

In New York they want $1.000.000.00 in insurance and a permit to do any shoot. Also you need a New York certificate of competance card which is no easy thing to get. further more with New York being the center of hell that it is I would bet that they would want you to have a state own and possess license along with a type 54 permit. Now fatcat I'm going to have to start drinking because the whole situation just pisses me off to no end. Thanks!!!!! Cheers!

[jknepp1954]

I could of swore it was baby "B" only. My mistake does Oop's work now?
NP J - I think you are getting that mixed up with our demo - that is baby b only, as i only have the 1.4g insurance for that the club has 2 mil insurance for the club shoots.
ATF B docs - basically what J said is all you need. For event put down Pa Pyro Artist Morrisdale, PA - i am out of the loop for other docs, but i really don't think they need vids for doc.

NOW back to the OP INSURANCE question and for fatcat: I think all states have different requirements for this. I am hearing in some states whether it is 1.4 or 1.3 you need the insurances - but not for PA. In Pa although insurance is a good idea, not required by state law. What is required is a no less than $500 conditional bond. Give the AHJ a $500 check, when show is done, nothing happens, then check is yours to rip up. Some areas as an AHJ are now requiring with their new ordinances they write up want a mil insur. BUT that is their requirement, which makes it so much more harder (if not impossible) to get the PA permit that you need. Such is the twp where our club shoot is done. J - the town where we did our demo this past MAY - they did not require insur. - however as a company since i have the insurance anyway, had to provide just to cover my own butt. I do hear some AHJ's will accept your homeowners insuranse for their requirement - so check with them to make sure what you need.
Pyroliffic - maybe that is what your AHJ told you, but there is absolutely nothing in the state law that says "if you are doing for profit" stuff - has nothing to do with it, just the $500 bond thing - and that is irregardless of profit or not. HECK - I had a local twp tell me over the years - they not only want my $2 mil insurance, but they also want my $500 as well - I have argued with them till i am blue in the face ... so i just give up anymore, give them both my bond and $2 mil insurance - just lucky that nothing ever happend - if it did - not really sure what they would do - and i am sure THEY wouldn't know what to do either. Sorry - just my own personal little rant on that issue....

[shellshocker]

Joyce, not to argue with you but as soon as you shoot for profit it all changes. In PA you must register with the attorney generals office and you are now treated as a business. That means you now have to meet all federal, state and dot rules. I could be wrong but I believe federal law requires 1 mil minimum liabality for any public display. Now you are in commerce and if you are transporting I believe dot requires 10 mil liability. Maybe the Lawyers can jump in here and clear some of this up.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

My experience from my own personal shoot on July 2nd in PA was the AHJ did not require a bond, but did required a copy of my BATF 54 license, shooters certification, that the local fire dept be on site & that I notify both the Township & State Police of the location & time of the shoot in order to issue the permit. I shoot mostly 1.4 but had 1.3 shells & salutes as well. It sounds like I had to jump through a lot of hoops for the permit, but it was not a big deal. I live out in the country & my neighbor down the road [a pyro enthusiast] is the local fire chief. The township police have never bothered anyone in the past, & we are not near the normal state police patrol areas. All the kids loved having a fire truck at our picnic! LOL! I also made a donation to the Fire Dept [volunteer fire co.]
I do carry liability insurance for my business [design & install audio & video systems ] and have $1 million in coverage. That costs around $460.00 a year, and if I need additional coverage for a particular job it is $500.00 per additional million of coverage. Note that this is for an "electronics trade"and not extremely expensive. I'm sure the insurance for a pyro company is astronomical since that would be considered a much higher risk.
Sorry if we got off topic from the OP with the thread. Maybe someone should open another thread dealing with club meets & shoots.

[UniversalPyro]

please send me a copy....will he deliver to the shoot site?

[UniversalPyro]

My experience from my own personal shoot on July 2nd in PA was the AHJ did not require a bond, but did required a copy of my BATF 54 license, shooters certification, that the local fire dept be on site & that I notify both the Township & State Police of the location & time of the shoot in order to issue the permit. I shoot mostly 1.4 but had 1.3 shells & salutes as well. It sounds like I had to jump through a lot of hoops for the permit, but it was not a big deal. I live out in the country & my neighbor down the road [a pyro enthusiast] is the local fire chief. The township police have never bothered anyone in the past, & we are not near the normal state police patrol areas. All the kids loved having a fire truck at our picnic! LOL! I also made a donation to the Fire Dept [volunteer fire co.]
I do carry liability insurance for my business [design & install audio & video systems ] and have $1 million in coverage. That costs around $460.00 a year, and if I need additional coverage for a particular job it is $500.00 per additional million of coverage. Note that this is for an "electronics trade"and not extremely expensive. I'm sure the insurance for a pyro company is astronomical since that would be considered a much higher risk.
Sorry if we got off topic from the OP with the thread. Maybe someone should open another thread dealing with club meets & shoots.

Are you saying you use your personal business insurance for firework shows, Profit or Nonprofit?
Also, i need some Xenon lights for my truck, you sell them? :)

[PyroJoeNEPA]

UniversalPyro-no, I do not use my business insurance for fireworks related shows--I just put it out for a cost reference....& sorry, I don't deal in the 12 volt [auto] market.

[Pyro Nation]

please send me a copy....will he deliver to the shoot site?

U talking to me??

[UniversalPyro]

U talking to me??

Yes Sir! Send me the goods

[J's12talk]

OK fatcat you had to get us back on topic, now I have a hangover and a headache! Thanks LOL!

[Pyro Nation]

Yes Sir! Send me the goods



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[VFI_Fireworks]

Insurance is the killer, I give insurance to my shooters for a price, But they must have shot for me and have all required info and of course operating under my insurance means everything must be done right. If you need insurance 9-10 times your being paid which requires even more qualifications than just shooting a show. After all any mistakes or issues would come back to me. I heard of a few clubs that allow after so many shoots and a club fee to get insurance through them but I believe it is very limited. Anyone looking to be a shooter I'm always looking for help!

[Pyro Nation]

I always love to help out, but think I am a bit farther from you...lol