My first 1.3 purchase

[rreffner]

Thought this was worth a mention. Got my 54 on 9/16. Bday was 9/17....the perfect bday present!
I made my first purchase from celebration fireworks. I purchased some 3 inch display shells and some 3 inch salutes, and two 3 inch ground salutes. I didn?t have my firings system yet at the time so it was all hand lit at my farm.
The shells were the kind Dave has mentioned in his videos before. They come with ?waterproof? quick match with a visco tip, with a quick disconnect at the base for e match. I decided to start my 1.3 days with a bang so I started with a 3 inch ground salute. Wow, what a boom. Nothing to mess around with. Those things rocked the valley big time, and could do some serious damage, probably death if you aren?t careful! I moved on to the 3 inch salute shell. Placed in mortar, Lit the visco....pop, but did not come out of the tube. I wasn?t sure what was going on, and I yelled ?get on the ground!!?. No boom. I wasn?t sure if the pop I heard was the quick match and lift charge, or just quick match, or what. After waiting a good 20 minutes, I slowly approached behind a shield and dumped water in the mortar.
Turns out, the quick match never lit through the connector at the base. What a nervous wreck I was for that 20 minutes.
I will say I?m not a fan of hand lighting those ?quick release? quick match leads, I had 3 shells do that. If using e match it wouldn?t have been an issue. Just thought it was a cool concept but mine had some flaws.
A nervous start, but those situations are exactly why it?s important to pay attention, and keep safety first. The night was great and I had a blast. Can?t wait for the open shoot on 10/20!

[Pyro Dave]

Just want to make sure you realize that dumping water down the tube will help to put out any smoldering embers. It will not make the shell inert. That shell can/will go off and should still be treated carefully. More then likely the lift will be ruined so do not try and shoot it out of a gun again.

[rreffner]

I had heard that but wasn’t sure how true it was. Good info to know.
It was kind of a baptism by fire, would have been better if it happened after some experience under my belt.
The shells that did not light were soaked in water overnight and then destroyed.

[Pyro Dave]

Soaking shells in water is very ineffective at destroying them. It can takes days even weeks in water to actually get through a well made ball shell.
To be honest this is what worries me about people running out to get an ATF license without any real experience with 1.3. A simple mistake can turn deadly very quickly.

I'd strongly advise getting signed up for a pgi course. Find some local clubs or companies to work with and learn more before you just try to "wing it"

[rreffner]

Soaking shells in water is very ineffective at destroying them. It can takes days even weeks in water to actually get through a well made ball shell.
To be honest this is what worries me about people running out to get an ATF license without any real experience with 1.3. A simple mistake can turn deadly very quickly.

I'd strongly advise getting signed up for a pgi course. Find some local clubs or companies to work with and learn more before you just try to "wing it"
I plan on that. The next available is not until Spring, in my area at least. Its a major reason I am attending the open shoot next weekend at Fire Art, to learn a little from others and be around those who are more experienced. In hindsight, perhaps I shouldn't have made that initial purchase.
Unfortunately I could only do what I felt was best at the time. For what its worth, after they soaked overnight, I cut them open and swirled the contents in the bucket, and only threw away an empty skin. I dumped the water out at the edge of my property.
I had seen a video of Dave's where consumer shells lasted outside for a month in the weather. Last thing I wanted was a still usable 1.3 item getting in to the hands of someone at the dump.

[BMoore]

Soaking in water initially will likely/hopefully kill the lift charge and quickmatch. Beyond that soaking in water won't be all that effective in destroying the shell. The recommendation is to actually soak in kerosene as the kerosene will break down the glues allowing quicker penetration into the shell.

I'm trying to picture what you mean when you say the quickmatch didn't fire through the connector. I think you are saying it was visco into quickmatch and the quickmatch was connected directly to the e-match port? I've not seen that arrangement but it sounds like a recipe for failure.

[rreffner]

Soaking in water initially will likely/hopefully kill the lift charge and quickmatch. Beyond that soaking in water won't be all that effective in destroying the shell. The recommendation is to actually soak in kerosene as the kerosene will break down the glues allowing quicker penetration into the shell.

I'm trying to picture what you mean when you say the quickmatch didn't fire through the connector. I think you are saying it was visco into quickmatch and the quickmatch was connected directly to the e-match port? I've not seen that arrangement but it sounds like a recipe for failure.
Attaching the best photo I have from that day...it was visco to quick match, down to the e match port. From the ematch to the shell looked like quick match with a small bit of the black match exposed.http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3194&stc=1http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3194&stc=1

[Pyro Dave]

John orders all of his shells with short leaders for ematch. If you are going to hand light them it will have a leader attached like you have shown. Once you gain more experience you will want to get the leaders separate and cut the port off and tie the match together for a better success rate. Or my suggestion is spend the money now to get a firing system, its worth it.

[rreffner]

I will certainly be moving to electronic firing, for a multitude of reasons, before I fire anything else on my own. I am going to ask some of the folks at the open shoot what they use or recommend. I know Dave DeSafey on here recommends the cobra. Some recommend firetek, and some the ebay versions.

[jknepp1954]

We just got a cs of Fire fly to sell...works off cell phone. Small....15 que...but effective.

[cptnding]

I will certainly be moving to electronic firing, for a multitude of reasons, before I fire anything else on my own. I am going to ask some of the folks at the open shoot what they use or recommend. I know Dave DeSafey on here recommends the cobra. Some recommend firetek, and some the ebay versions.

It's not cheap but if you can stand the cost you will be very happy with a Cobra system. Their service and support is superior and US based. There are many less expensive options that will serve you well.
www.remotefiringsystems.com has some good options and some of the China/Ebay systems are good starters on a budget.
Cobra usually has a sale with some pretty big discounts around Black Friday that you might want to wait for if it's in you're price range.
Good to see you are safety minded. Make sure you use plenty of setback. My minimum is at least 100' per inch of shell size and sometimes more. If YOU get hurt or burned it sucks but if your neighbor/friend/family member or a kid gets hurt it will be a different matter altogether.

[Mattp]

First off. Happy belated birthday and congrats on you 54... i made my first purchase from celebration as well.. great selection,staff and service.. and will be using them again for next year.. ! Now, i have a slightly differemt view of this scenario.. i think you did the right thing.. being overly cautious with explosives is a good thing!!! Personally after the 20 mins i wouldve most likely looked at it first.. Destroying a shell is a last resort for me..lol. . BUT.. you did exactly what the NFPA code 5.2.10 states to do in that situation!!! Wait 15 min.. then Fill mortar with water.. let that sit for 5 min before handling!! Yes they are right about in not penetrating the ball.. but in the name of safety id say it was the correct action... yes definitely get yourself a firing system.. you wont regret it

[Mattp]

We just got a cs of Fire fly to sell...works off cell phone. Small....15 que...but effective.

Thats a really cool idea,, , that it can use the phone

[rreffner]

First off. Happy belated birthday and congrats on you 54... i made my first purchase from celebration as well.. great selection,staff and service.. and will be using them again for next year.. ! Now, i have a slightly differemt view of this scenario.. i think you did the right thing.. being overly cautious with explosives is a good thing!!! Personally after the 20 mins i wouldve most likely looked at it first.. Destroying a shell is a last resort for me..lol. . BUT.. you did exactly what the NFPA code 5.2.10 states to do in that situation!!! Wait 15 min.. then Fill mortar with water.. let that sit for 5 min before handling!! Yes they are right about in not penetrating the ball.. but in the name of safety id say it was the correct action... yes definitely get yourself a firing system.. you wont regret it

Thanks MattP. They were great to work with. I'll certainly buy from again. Hopefully I'll see Kneppys at the open shoot and can discuss that new system.

Thanks for the encouragement, particularly MattP and cptnding. I am aware that some do not like people just being able to go get their type 54, and I'm OK with that. I actually milled around the idea for about a year.... I did my research on safety precautions in that time and actually had a long talk with my ATF Investigator about them. Her recommendation was very similar to the 5.2.10, hence why I did what I did. My goal was to kill any embers that could potentially light the quick match, lift charge or time fuse so I could get it out of the mortar and away from the area. Oddly enough, on some of the shells was a sticker that 'if found, soak in water and destroy, and contact local authorities.' Good to know about the kerosene trick. I hope to get more constructive advice over the years.

[jknepp1954]

Thanks MattP. They were great to work with. I'll certainly buy from again. Hopefully I'll see Kneppys at the open shoot and can discuss that new system.

T
I will be there....but i am not well versed in Firefly. I hope my son can go - he understands better than i do...LOL
ya gotta remember - i am of the older generation - he is of younger teckie! LOL

[displayfireworks1]

Great to hear about your first purchase. Sounds like you are also attending the Open Shoot at Fire Art, so the fun continues. Don't forget to order early and be sure Fire Art has your license on file. Also bring your license with you. On that shell that did not fire , did you have the shell in a mortar and pull it out to move it to another mortar or anything similar to that? It is unusual the leader would separate from the lift like that.

[rreffner]

Thanks dave,
I placed my order back in September, so they have my 54 on file and I will bring a copy.
As for the shell that failed, I actually had 3 out of 15 fail. I hadn't moved them, just dropped in the mortar and fired. Not sure if it was just a bad batch, but they all failed to cross from the quickmatch into the ematch port. Probably would have had 100% success if using ematch?...working my way toward that!

[BMoore]

Great to hear about your first purchase. Sounds like you are also attending the Open Shoot at Fire Art, so the fun continues. Don't forget to order early and be sure Fire Art has your license on file. Also bring your license with you. On that shell that did not fire , did you have the shell in a mortar and pull it out to move it to another mortar or anything similar to that? It is unusual the leader would separate from the lift like that.

I don't think the leader is separating from the lift. If I understand this correctly his shells just had an e-match port on a very short leader. To hand light, there is a longer QM leader that they are attaching directly to the e-match port. So, in effect what you have is a cut leader where you are relying on fire to jump through the e-match port. You would think that would work but the only reliable way to pass fire between two pieces of QM is to have blackmatch touching blackmatch. I also wonder if the QM isn't violent enough to break it away from the plastic connector especially if it's perchlorate match. If it were me I'd be cutting out those e-match ports and directly connecting the leader.