DMX / Cobra Integration Working Solution Completed

[esgrillo]

Cobra has had DMX integration in the works for a while but based on some feedback from Scott and knowing the complexity of programming for DMX moving head fixtures for example I have been working on a solution instead of waiting for something that likely would not work for my hardware.

For those not familiar, DMX is the language nearly all special effects lighting, flames, lasers, etc... use to control from either a computer running DMX software or a hardware control panel. You can program these with very precise timing for effects in a similar way you program cues in your script for firing on beats of music.

The problem I have had is synching both these sets of software / hardware so they are both running on the same "time clock". Prior I had to basically press both start buttons at the same time and keep my fingers crossed they were aligned. Did not work too well. Plus with very precise timing like what is needed for a flame effect for example its really difficult to get timing right with that method.

The solution involves using the audiobox to send a timecode signal to the DMX hardware / software so they "triggered" at the same time. This allows just pressing the 18r2 button to start everything and both the fireworks and all the other equipment should stay in synch. The audiobox can play a smpte time code LTC audio file on one channel. That can be created online for free. You then use Audacity to get one channel of the audiofile with that timecode and the other with your regular audio which should be converted to mono from stereo first. When you do this you have the audiobox sending one RCA to your sound system and the other to a LTC to midi time code converter. The converter then feeds to my compu show SDE DMX software on my laptop. That signal is interpreted as a clock in the software running at the exact same time as the script in your Cobra. You can then trigger DMX effects at the exact time you need to match your fireworks show.

Both the cobra script and the DMX script are started using the 18r2. For example I should be able to time a DMX flame effect to match a firework effect on the same beat of music. Thats the theory anyway... have not finalized all that yet but I do have the basics working. You can see in this video how I set it up.

Also I have checked the pricing of the Cobra enabled flame machine on Wireless Salamander Quad Pro that was mentioned by Cobra a while back. That unit costs $5600 each on sale. The flame unit I have in this video cost $112 delivered. Additional cost for the midi converter and DMX hardware/software. You can see why I was looking for another solution plus I honestly don't believe that Cobra DMX will ever be able to control a moving head DJ style light. Those have 18 control channels each and can be thousands of lines of programming code for control movement for those things. I doubt a cobra script will ever be able to manage that.

Here's a short video of my first test:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjedUKgXQ9s&lc=z22yi10irkenttlcmacdp435lcvnch2h0qjm2rmwhf1w03c 010c

[Crush630]

YESSSS!!!! Nice work!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Ed - You lost me right after "For those not familiar," but you continue to amaze my friend!! When you put a bow around this new invention you should get with Scott and market it as an add-on for his system.

[esgrillo]

Ed - You lost me right after "For those not familiar," but you continue to amaze my friend!! When you put a bow around this new invention you should get with Scott and market it as an add-on for his system.

lol Rick. I have been communicating with Scott for quite a while on this one and got a lot of help from another member of the Cobra FB page. That other cobra user had synched the Cobra with DMX in a professional environment using the 18r2 with the timecode option. Pretty sure that 18r2 is hardware you have to reach out directly to Cobra to get. The AB option I have seemed to be a better fit for what I wanted to do. The other reason I looked to do this integration on my own is that I saw the costs for the Cobra integrated flame machines they have in beta priced at $5600 each! Compare that to the little over $100 I paid for the flame units I got.

Once I test some more and confirm all the timing is good and that the regular audio is still up to par, I plan on showing some more details on what I did.

[krayg]

When I saw your 2018 show I thought it would be interesting to control those lights with cues from the music playing from the audio box (which I plan to buy this year). I was going to go about it differently. I started investigating the LTC/SMPTE output on the right channel as the audio box supports it. I then started looking at the DMX512 specs. I was going to write something that would run on linux (raspberry pi) that could read the LTC and send the DMX512 packets directly to the lights. In the end I got distracted and then saw this post. Yours definitely saves the coding time to convert the signals. Have you tried this alternative which is supposed to do the LTC-MIDI conversion also? It looks like some software that runs on a Mac or windows system.


https://www.videotoolshed.com/handcrafted-timecode-tools/ltc-midi-readerconverter/

[esgrillo]

When I saw your 2018 show I thought it would be interesting to control those lights with cues from the music playing from the audio box (which I plan to buy this year). I was going to go about it differently. I started investigating the LTC/SMPTE output on the right channel as the audio box supports it. I then started looking at the DMX512 specs. I was going to write something that would run on linux (raspberry pi) that could read the LTC and send the DMX512 packets directly to the lights. In the end I got distracted and then saw this post. Yours definitely saves the coding time to convert the signals. Have you tried this alternative which is supposed to do the LTC-MIDI conversion also? It looks like some software that runs on a Mac or windows system.


https://www.videotoolshed.com/handcrafted-timecode-tools/ltc-midi-readerconverter/

I did not. My DMX software requires a midi compliant device USB input with the timecode so I used a device that would supply that spec. Not sure if what you show above would be recognized by Compu Show SDE. I am moving forward with what I have since I know it works with all the other hardware. Now comes the programming fun lol.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

The other reason I looked to do this integration on my own is that I saw the costs for the Cobra integrated flame machines they have in beta priced at $5600 each! Compare that to the little over $100 I paid for the flame units I got.

Once I test some more and confirm all the timing is good and that the regular audio is still up to par, I plan on showing some more details on what I did.

Definitely looking forward to more updates. My buddy and I were looking at those Cobra flame units at PGI this year. Nice, but priced WAY out of my price range. I could buy all I need at $100 a pop, but I wouldn't pay $5600 for one. So I'm definitely interested in what you come up with to finish this project.

[esgrillo]

Definitely looking forward to more updates. My buddy and I were looking at those Cobra flame units at PGI this year. Nice, but priced WAY out of my price range. I could buy all I need at $100 a pop, but I wouldn't pay $5600 for one. So I'm definitely interested in what you come up with to finish this project.

Same here. The flames are pretty good especially for ~$100. Of course simple integration with a cobra enabled flame device wireless set-up has a ton of benefits but unless you are a large business who can afford that kind of expense especially knowing you probably would choose to get more than one. Now the DMX software/hardware and the midi converter are not cheap but that is a one time expense of about $1500 combined. Nobody ever said this hobby was cheap lol. The other issue that led me to this direction is that the moving head lights I have will in my opinion never be integrated with any firing system control. The scripting for those fixtures is pretty complicated because there are so many channels to control for each action you want to do. In my case for the lights I have there are 19 channels like L & R pan, U & D Tilt, color, gobo, focus, frost, shutter, dimmer, etc... and to make a movement of these from left to right for example can result in several hundred lines of code. There is no way that would ever be incorporated into a firing system, it makes no sense to even attempt that. That's why I needed to retain the DMX control in my software anyway. No way Cobra is ever going to build that capability in so having cobra "trigger" the program in the DMX software is the best solution IMO. That's what I am doing.

If I had just flame machines that are 1 channel control on/off devices in most cases, yeah the Cobra option may make sense (if you happen to have a boatload of cash laying around lol).

When I get the bugs lined out I'll post more details. I have 5 units so I want to get a sequence programmed that is timed with music and verify all is good. The scripting for the DMX makes Cobra scripting look like 1st grade math lmao so it should be fun.

Here is a simple schematic of the system (compliments of Marc Brummer). I am using the bottom one with the AB. He uses the top one with the smpte 18R2. He uses that method because his DMX controller handles all the music synching too and costs $24,000 btw ;). He does professional show as you can probably guess.

3163

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I dropped $11K on my show last year, so I'm not afraid to open the check book. But like you, I need to spend the money smartly. If I can get 5 flame effect machines and the DMX software/hardware and the midi converter equipment to run them in sequence with the Cobra audio box for $2K, I can justify that easily. $24K... Not so much. lol...

[bweaver1985]

There is also another vendor who has something similar its called the X1 By Light in Motion Show Controls. They have the Mini Unit which controls 1 Universe and the full X1 which controls up to 4 Universes and can be daisy chained together for up to 16 Universes. The X1 goes right from SMPTE (LTC) to the controller then DMX without converting to MIDI. The X1 software has a huge library of pre-built fixtures that can be controlled, along with the capability to write new custom templates. One feature i liked is that it has mobile control from Android and iPhones.

[BallisticFireworks]

I have been looking online at the cheap 200W DMX flame machines from EBay. Has anyone used these before? How reliable and what is the quality like... i realistically need something to use a couple of times a year and these look like a far more affordable solution than some of the expensive professional systems...

Cheers

[esgrillo]

I replied on the other thread. Assume if you are posting on this one you have a DMX system. If so I would go ahead and purchase. Mine are working OK so far.

[BallisticFireworks]

I haven’t got the dmx system either, just something that very much interests me. How do you control yours?

Cheers

[esgrillo]

check it out here:

https://vimeo.com/296131034
.

[jonnypyro]

This is all very interesting, I'm trying to figure out something similar so I'd be very interested in the details of how you (esgrillo) have set this all up.

[Robbro097]

This is awesome iv followed along and would love to b able to do this someday but this so far over my head lol

[esgrillo]

I've finished up my full DMX script for my 2019 show. I plan on testing next weekend with operation started from my 18r2. I have 5 flame devices, 2 lasers lights, and 4 rotating head hybrid spots. I'll take a video and summarize the set up if all goes well.

[Scotty Rockets]

For those that don’t know, firetek already offers DMX on their fth48fx modules. Also fwsim pro choreography software has DMX scripting along with pyro for the firetek system. Currently this fwsim
Pro version is a beta.

[Scotty Rockets]

Not my video but shows the basics firetek DMX. These are the cheap eBay flame projectors
https://youtu.be/GEccsKGEHuU

[esgrillo]

Not my video but shows the basics firetek DMX. These are the cheap eBay flame projectors
https://youtu.be/GEccsKGEHuU
Pretty cool especially with "on/off" type devices like flames or cans. Already owning Cobra, integration with existing product was my goal. Also I have moving head lights in addition to the flame devices and a couple of lasers. The programming for moving heads can be very complicated. Mine have 19 channels in each and getting them to do say a figure 8 pattern can be thousands of lines of code or you have to use a built in curve. Do not see that as possible in DMX programming residing in a firing system but what you show would be great for a lot of applications. I know Scott at Cobra is working on DMX integration but I doubt it could ever control a moving head.

[Scotty Rockets]

Pretty cool especially with "on/off" type devices like flames or cans. Already owning Cobra, integration with existing product was my goal. Also I have moving head lights in addition to the flame devices and a couple of lasers. The programming for moving heads can be very complicated. Mine have 19 channels in each and getting them to do say a figure 8 pattern can be thousands of lines of code or you have to use a built in curve. Do not see that as possible in DMX programming residing in a firing system but what you show would be great for a lot of applications. I know Scott at Cobra is working on DMX integration but I doubt it could ever control a moving head.

Each module operates 64 different channels. Personally my current modules don’t have dmx option, but my next module will.

[sethof]

Ed,

Can you kindly provide a list of the products you used for this integration.
Thanks in advance

Seth

[esgrillo]

Ed,

Can you kindly provide a list of the products you used for this integration.
Thanks in advance

Seth

Compu Show SDE DMX software and hardware dongle
Rosendahl MIF4
Free timecode generator http://elteesee.pehrhovey.net/
Audiobox

[esgrillo]

I posted a video of a more comprehensive test on my Vimeo channel https://vimeo.com/333253120
.

[cherrybomb1]

I posted a video of a more comprehensive test on my Vimeo channel https://vimeo.com/333253120
Your amazing Ed!but I feel so stupid after I watch your videos Lol!

[esgrillo]

Your amazing Ed!but I feel so stupid after I watch your videos Lol!

lol.... just more crap to go wrong on shoot day

[josbor01]

I have been able to get my flame projector to fire from my COBRA mod; using a simple arduno board with DMX shield, wrote a litlle code to check the incomming voltage from the mod and if the cue is triggered will in-turn trigger the DMX to fire the projector.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I posted a video of a more comprehensive test on my Vimeo channel https://vimeo.com/333253120
.

I saw it. Very impressive as always. Can't wait to see your show this year!

[sethof]

Compu Show SDE DMX software and hardware dongle
Rosendahl MIF4
Free timecode generator http://elteesee.pehrhovey.net/
Audiobox

Thank you Ed