Storage magazine overweight

[Trust1053]

Hello Everyone
Has anyone ever been over capacity allowed for magazine at time of a Atf Inspection if so what was the outcome.

[displayfireworks1]

You have been a member of pyrotalk.com for 3 years and this is your first post. Wow . If we answer this your next post may be 2021

[Rick_In_Tampa]

He's just pacing himself Dave. Can't be too careful about these things.

[Trust1053]

Your right I haven't posted on here before this is exactly why you ask a question and you can't a answer what you get is a bunch of comments and criticism but no answers.

[Kenny East]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they wouldn't like it very much... I would think they would probably come down pretty hard, maybe suspend your permit... And obviously make you relocate any materials that are over the limit. Just a guess though, never met or heard of anyone having that issue. It's only by composition weight, so 1/4 weight for cakes, 1/2 for shells. Like I think the last case of 3s I got was 17#s

[Ctpyro180]

Hello Everyone
Has anyone ever been over capacity allowed for magazine at time of a Atf Inspection if so what was the outcome.

You would be charged with a ATFE violation and would have to re-locate the overweight portion to another magazine of the same class.....not good for your license ....

[Trust1053]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they wouldn't like it very much... I would think they would probably come down pretty hard, maybe suspend your permit... And obviously make you relocate any materials that are over the limit. Just a guess though, never met or heard of anyone having that issue. It's only by composition weight, so 1/4 weight for cakes, 1/2 for shells. Like I think the last case of 3s I got was 17#s Thanks for the info

[Mattp]

Im still new to the having a 54 permit thing.. but im pretty sure legally,, you can sell your "surplus stock" to another permit holder.

[displayfireworks1]

The ATF told me a story about that exact situation only it was with sticks of dynamite. I'll type the story up tonight.

[Kenny East]

You are allowed to sell surplus stock, but keep records of transactions... If questioned about the reason it was surplus, explain that it would have exceeded the weight rating on your magazine.

[displayfireworks1]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5GGykOhgnQ

[Mattp]

The orange book says that and indoor magazine can hold 50lbs.. and you may have more than one indoor magazine in the same building.. BUT.. the total combined weight of storage must not exceed 50lbs.. so having two in the same buildimg really doesnt help .. pretty sure i read that right.. alot of sub parts to read through

[Mattp]

(1) General. Indoor magazines are to be fire-resistant and
theft-resistant. They need not be weather-resistant if the buildings in which they are stored provide protection from the weather. No indoor magazine is to be located in a residence or dwelling. The indoor storage of low explosives must not exceed a quantity of 50 pounds. More than one indoor magazine may be located in the same building if the total quantity of explosive materials stored does not exceed 50 pounds. Detonators that will not mass detonate must be stored in a separate magazine and the total number of electric detonators must not exceed 5,000.

[jknepp1954]

You are allowed to sell surplus stock, but keep records of transactions... If questioned about the reason it was surplus, explain that it would have exceeded the weight rating on your magazine.

I am not up to current regs - but from an incidence of 12 years ago - i did that very thing and ATF flipped out on me! Maybe things have changed?

[displayfireworks1]

Mattp the more I think about it you are correct. If by chance someone had more than one outbuilding and wanted 2 indoor magazine, would the distance between building (magazines) apply? Or, can the two outbuildings be close together as long as they are separate building?

[Mattp]

After reading through that section a few times.. i still dont have a concrete answer.. unless theres something im not reading properly.. they have 2 contradictory charts.. neither say specifically for indoor.. and if they are too close together then they are considered one.. as in that casabella video you made
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3077&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3078&stc=1

[Mattp]

One chart is for the storage of low explosives.. which is what fireworks are considered(except bulk salutes) .. the other is for storage of display fireworks.. slightly confusing

[Mattp]

I am not up to current regs - but from an incidence of 12 years ago - i did that very thing and ATF flipped out on me! Maybe things have changed?

I think certain rules are quite vague.. where the inspectors themselves dont fully understand.. they may also be a little more critical of someone in the business.. whos not just a joe shmo hobbyist

[displayfireworks1]

Mattp what page number and paragraph numbers are you referencing? I can scan those pages in the Orange Book and post it for easier reading

[Mattp]

page 55. ref. 555-218
Page 56 ref. 555-219
Page 58. Ref 555-224
Theres also a few paragraphs on those pages to help further explain.. funny the orange book might be the only book ive actually read cover to cover.. lol.. at the interview the inspector was surprised at how much i knew from it.. and even she didnt know the answer to the surplus stock question.. but when i showed her it in the book.. she said it sure does seem to say that!!

[displayfireworks1]

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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3079&stc=1
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