Mjg initiators

[3 Fingers]

I just learned that MJG Initiators use twice the current of a normal ematch.

This means that where I used to be able to fire 4 talons/ematches off one cue in parallel, the MJGs will only fire 2 matches per cue. If I upgrade my Cobra modules from 9v batteries to the 14.8v LiPo power, then I will be able to fire 4 MJGs per cue.

I had already purchased a bunch of MJG initiators before I knew this, it was something I wish I had known before buying the MJG initiators. Since I have already bought product and am almost done scripting my show, which includes multiple cues that have 4 MJG's on them, it is either upgrade now or redo the whole show.

Further, I have several modules that have slat adaptors with multiple slats scripted into the show. I will only be able to fire 2 MJGs regardless of how many slats I have connected.

Lesson: I should have researched this and upgraded in the off season!

[Berserker23]

On the cobra website it says
9v 6 in a series 2 parallel
14.8v LiPo series 6 series 4Parallel
12v external 6 series 3 parallel
18.5v external 6 series 5 parallel
24v external 6 series 6 parallel

[3 Fingers]

Yes it does....which I failed to see before I ordered. Gives me a good excuse to upgrade to LiPo and 5.0.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

The Lipo's are great--never a worry that your batteries are going to fizzle on you just before show time.

[3 Fingers]

The Lipo's are great--never a worry that your batteries are going to fizzle on you just before show time.

Do you use just the LiPo or did you get the ext posts too? If so, ever use em?
Also...can you use different powered mods together with one R2? Like 2 mods with LiPo and 4 with 9v batteries?
Some of my mods I only fire single items with so wouldn't "have" to upgrade now. Could split the expense of upgrading multiple mods.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I just learned that MJG Initiators use twice the current of a normal ematch.

Based on what I found online, (and I understand not all e-match is created equally, but on average...) both require a nominal firing current of 1A. to fire.

[3 Fingers]

Based on what I found online, (and I understand not all e-match is created equally, but on average...) both require a nominal firing current of 1A. to fire.

The MJG Initiators are not the same as ematch....these consumer initiators take twice the current to fire.

[3 Fingers]

MJG Initiators tech specs from Cobra site:

9v - 6 in series, 2 in parallel

14.8v = 6 in series, 4 in parallel

12v external = 6 in series, 3 in parallel

18.5v external = 6 in series, 5 in parallel

24v external = 6 in series, 6 in parallel

[Rick_In_Tampa]

The MJG Initiators are not the same as ematch....these consumer initiators take twice the current to fire.

If both take 1A to fire, how do the MJG initiators take twice as much current to fire?

[3 Fingers]

Rick-
I'm not entirely sure but that is what Scott told me. I'm sure someone here would know the details.
My guess? That is how they differentiated consumer ematch (initiators) from real ematch....but again....that is just a guess.
To solve my issue, which is I bought a bunch of initiators last November not knowing about this (my fault) and have my show scripted already. I'm just going to use ematch for now on the cues that have more than 2 matches scripted. In the off season I will upgrade my mods to the LiPo batteries and then should be good to go. I'd do it now but I'm tapped after buying product, 2 more mods and an audiobox. Looking forward to shooting in synch with the music this year for real!

[Mattp]

Im not sure im reading all of this right.. but your saying that you have some cues that will have 4 mjg's on them.. and the specs that you put up from cobra themselves says you can have 6 per cue on 9v in series... so i dont see the problem there.. do you not wamt to run them in series???

[3 Fingers]

Im not sure im reading all of this right.. but your saying that you have some cues that will have 4 mjg's on them.. and the specs that you put up from cobra themselves says you can have 6 per cue on 9v in series... so i dont see the problem there.. do you not wamt to run them in series???

Can you wire cues in series on a Cobra Parallel Slat?

[Berserker23]

I asked that question on cobras Facebook group and this the answer I got

you can have the ematches in series but limited numbers, I believe in only series so the continuity testing functions give a true reading. Parallel one ematch can be out but the test still show green for the other parallel curcuit,,,,

[Pyro Paul]

A word of advice if you're going to upgrade your mods to lipo from 9v, you have to buy the programmer if you don't have it to perform the "calibration" step after you install the upgrades. Guess who's waiting for the programmer to arrive... lol

[Mattp]

Can you wire cues in series on a Cobra Parallel Slat?

Ok. See.. i was mis reading then.. i thought you were talking about a regular mod. So i dont know.. but if you have a bunch of mjg.. run some tests

[3 Fingers]

Ok. See.. i was mis reading then.. i thought you were talking about a regular mod. So i dont know.. but if you have a bunch of mjg.. run some tests

That is what I concluded Matt....so this weekend I will conduct some tests. I will wire a cue with 4 MJG Initiators in series on a parallel slat and see what happens.

[3 Fingers]

Did the test this morning and did indeed fire 6 MJG Initiators off one 9v powered module using 2 parallel slats.
Here's the vid:

https://youtu.be/ryQnpWfl6V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryQnpWfl6V4&feature=youtu.be

[Stormcrow]

Is there the same concern with accidental ignition during transportation with initiators?

[Mattp]

Did the test this morning and did indeed fire 6 MJG Initiators off one 9v powered module using 2 parallel slats.
Here's the vid:

https://youtu.be/ryQnpWfl6V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryQnpWfl6V4&feature=youtu.be

Sweet!! And! Now i fully understand what the slats are for too... how long are those cables that connect them to the mod???... well see how my budget works out thos next year... but a cobra is needed in my toolbox!!!! Lol

[Mattp]

Is there the same concern with accidental ignition during transportation with initiators?

No... i would still treat them with some caution...but i believe the reason they can be transported by regular ground mail is that they dont have that concern

[pimpdaddee28]

Bump


Sorry for bringing back a thread from last year, but my question is about these MJG Initiators. Do they have a higher success rate than regular E-match? I remember someone did a test on them awhile back and compared the results between the two, but I'd like to know from people who have had experience with both during actual shoots/shows. I plan to do a pyro musical with some 1.4 pro items this year and my concern is with ignition fails and safety. The 2nd concern is checked off (thankfully), but I'd also like to know if they perform better than the Chinese E-match. Currently, I'm leaning towards picking up some Initiators. I also plan to purchase a better firing system this year, although it won't be a Cobra system (which isn't a big deal as long as the firing system is of good quality).

[Bung]

Bump


Sorry for bringing back a thread from last year, but my question is about these MJG Initiators. Do they have a higher success rate than regular E-match? I remember someone did a test on them awhile back and compared the results between the two, but I'd like to know from people who have had experience with both during actual shoots/shows. I plan to do a pyro musical with some 1.4 pro items this year and my concern is with ignition fails and safety. The 2nd concern is checked off (thankfully), but I'd also like to know if they perform better than the Chinese E-match. Currently, I'm leaning towards picking up some Initiators. I also plan to purchase a better firing system this year, although it won't be a Cobra system (which isn't a big deal as long as the firing system is of good quality).

In a nutshell, Chinese igniters tend to have a thinner copper core than 26 gauge igniters. The better quality igniters tend to have a thicker copper core, I believe to be about 26 gauge?. Failure rates are a hit and miss affair, I think. It may be, if you have had many igniters fail to ignite, even if testing shows continuation, it might be down to pulse time. Most igniters will initiate with a pulse time of 0.1 seconds. Some require more than 0.5 seconds - most likely they will be talons. Sometimes an igniter will simply not initiate even if testing shows continuation. Why?, who knows?. I think the saying 'you get what you pay for' is worth remembering. I'd go for the J-Teks in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, and I hope you don't mind me asking..., what firing system might you have in mind?

[pimpdaddee28]

In a nutshell, Chinese igniters tend to have a thinner copper core than 26 gauge igniters. The better quality igniters tend to have a thicker copper core, I believe to be about 26 gauge?. Failure rates are a hit and miss affair, I think. It may be, if you have had many igniters fail to ignite, even if testing shows continuation, it might be down to pulse time. Most igniters will initiate with a pulse time of 0.1 seconds. Some require more than 0.5 seconds - most likely they will be talons. Sometimes an igniter will simply not initiate even if testing shows continuation. Why?, who knows?. I think the saying 'you get what you pay for' is worth remembering. I'd go for the J-Teks in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, and I hope you don't mind me asking..., what firing system might you have in mind?

This is what I plan to get.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/391907594083?ul_noapp=true&fbclid=IwAR2Sz-1-hs-fkZk7nYuHDj7wq2Sf1Pu56Z2QHU6Idy-kLZbaA4tHR4mJfZg

[Rick_In_Tampa]

MJG initiators are VERY reliable. I've used them on hundreds of cakes and I can only recall 1 time where 2 didn't fire, and that was due to operator error.

So I have no problem recommending them.

[Bung]

This is what I plan to get.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/391907594083?ul_noapp=true&fbclid=IwAR2Sz-1-hs-fkZk7nYuHDj7wq2Sf1Pu56Z2QHU6Idy-kLZbaA4tHR4mJfZg

Firing system should do its job. Dave did vids on them some time ago I think. If you plan on doing shows regularly and of more comlexity, cobra or wps are the best bang for your dollar imo. 18r2 and wps identical in all but price and looks

[joed2323]

MJG initiators are VERY reliable. I've used them on hundreds of cakes and I can only recall 1 time where 2 didn't fire, and that was due to operator error.

So I have no problem recommending them.

I agree, never really had any issues that I can remember with these igniters.
Majority of any issues come from operator error.

Way less temperamental then talons for comparison

[Jay_]

FWIW i have a Chinese system with 128 cues that I use to compliment my cobra system and I have had zero problems shooting ematch or mjg’s with it.

The upscale Chinese systems are outstanding for shooting your finale....as well as providing fill here and there in a pyromusical.

If I were not shooting pyromusicals, My Chinese system would reliably do everything I need to do.

[pimpdaddee28]

Firing system should do its job. Dave did vids on them some time ago I think. If you plan on doing shows regularly and of more comlexity, cobra or wps are the best bang for your dollar imo. 18r2 and wps identical in all but price and looks

Thanks for the advice guys!! This will be my first go in terms of using a firing system for my show (or rather, a portion of my show). I'll be doing this only on the 4th for now, so the Cobra isn't a necessity at the moment, but that could change in the future.

[bani]

just a warning, the cheap chinese systems cannot handle talons. they are ematch only. the transistors they use are very low current rated and will burn out on talons.

i burned out a bunch of them before i figured this out.

[AxeElf]

just a warning, the cheap chinese systems cannot handle talons. they are ematch only. the transistors they use are very low current rated and will burn out on talons.

i burned out a bunch of them before i figured this out.

My cheap Chinese system successfully fired at least 58 (and probably 59) of my 60 cues using talons (or at least talon-type igniters) on my first time using either of them this year.

[MtnViewPyro]

Does cobra place MJG’s on sale during their Black Friday sale? I’m not a cheap guy, but as I add to my shows the MJG price continues to climb. Any savings means more fireworks.

[Robbro097]

Last year they did 10% off mjg. Every bit helps

[MtnViewPyro]

Last year they did 10% off mjg. Every bit helps

Ok, thanks you. Yes, every bit helps!

[gnavarr]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I was curious as to why the maximum number of MJG Initiators was 6 in series no matter what power source? Thanks in advance for the help.

[Arclight]

If you fired off a 110V generator (they call it power line firing in blasting) or a big capacitor discharge blast box, you could probably fire many more in series. With series firing, the resistance goes up and the voltage drops as you add each igniter. So you reach a point where the minimum voltage needed to light these up (usually around 2V) isn't being met.

Regarding the quality: I compared the wiring on the MJGs I just bought to a professional e-match. They have good quality insulation and plenty of Copper. This is one of the places I suspect the Chinese e-match is going to be lacking.

[gnavarr]

If you fired off a 110V generator (they call it power line firing in blasting) or a big capacitor discharge blast box, you could probably fire many more in series. With series firing, the resistance goes up and the voltage drops as you add each igniter. So you reach a point where the minimum voltage needed to light these up (usually around 2V) isn't being met.

Regarding the quality: I compared the wiring on the MJGs I just bought to a professional e-match. They have good quality insulation and plenty of Copper. This is one of the places I suspect the Chinese e-match is going to be lacking.


Okay that makes sense for series. As far as parallel goes, wouldn't a 24v external source then be able to fire off more than the listed 6 maximum for parallel? Thanks again for the knowledge.

[Arclight]

Okay that makes sense for series. As far as parallel goes, wouldn't a 24v external source then be able to fire off more than the listed 6 maximum for parallel? Thanks again for the knowledge.

The limiting factor there is how much current can be pushed by:

1. The battery
2. The firing system cue (usually a big transistor)
3. All of the wiring between the battery and the bundle of igniters

If each igniter needs 1-2A, you need to deliver that times the number of igniters in order for them to all fire.

[gnavarr]

Gotcha I appreciate your help and explanation.

[esgrillo]

I have shot 7 mjg in series in a show on lipo 18m's without a problem.

If you use an external powersource like a 22V hobby battery you can really extend the capabilities especially if you are dealing with longer lengths of wire between each match.

Im did some testing on max parallel capability with mini slats separated by 50ft each. You can get about 8 in parallel with that separation using a 22V hobby battery. I backed off a couple of matches from the max for this field test I did a couple months ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stDWgv_9crQ&t=95s

[Arclight]

If you want to give it a test, you could try an 18-36V Lithium drill battery if you have one around.

[gnavarr]

I have shot 7 mjg in series in a show on lipo 18m's without a problem.

If you use an external powersource like a 22V hobby battery you can really extend the capabilities especially if you are dealing with longer lengths of wire between each match.

Im did some testing on max parallel capability with mini slats separated by 50ft each. You can get about 8 in parallel with that separation using a 22V hobby battery. I backed off a couple of matches from the max for this field test I did a couple months ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stDWgv_9crQ&t=95s


That's an awesome test and great thinking with the booster boxes. Would you happen to be able to provide links to the boxes and relays and/or any pictures of the inside of them to see exactly how they're set up? I appreciate it a ton.

[esgrillo]

That's an awesome test and great thinking with the booster boxes. Would you happen to be able to provide links to the boxes and relays and/or any pictures of the inside of them to see exactly how they're set up? I appreciate it a ton.

I did another earlier video with the boosters that shows the internals. 6 relays, another hobby battery, power switch and RJ45 connections. A friend of mine made them... he is way more familiar with the wiring set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5T3V1Oaxg

[gnavarr]

I did another earlier video with the boosters that shows the internals. 6 relays, another hobby battery, power switch and RJ45 connections. A friend of mine made them... he is way more familiar with the wiring set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5T3V1Oaxg

Ah see and this is what happens when you don't fully finish a video! I watched that before asking, but I didn't get to the point where you showed the internals so I'm sorry about that. I understand the basic layout of the box, especially with your explanation in the video, but it's the wiring I'm not familiar with. I'm an amateur pyro and (as you can tell from my questions) even less than amateur when it comes to electrical stuff.

[mb_pyro]

If think myself and many other pyros would love a schematic(wiring diagram) and parts list. If possible and you don't mind sharing.
Thanks

[gnavarr]

If think myself and many other pyros would love a schematic(wiring diagram) and parts list. If possible and you don't mind sharing.
Thanks

I’d definitely appreciate that. It’s tough to make too much out from the video as far as the wiring goes.

[Arclight]

If there is interest, I could get PCBs made to make assembling these easy.

[esgrillo]

I dont have the wiring diagram. I have asked my friend who put this together to chime in on this thread with that info.

Parts:
Box - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F8V56T6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Battery Hobby King - ZIPPY COMPACT 3000MAH 6S 20C LIPO PACK W/XT60
Relay - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HWH1QVJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also had a switch for power and rj45 jack/plug

[gnavarr]

I dont have the wiring diagram. I have asked my friend who put this together to chime in on this thread with that info.

Parts:
Box - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F8V56T6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Battery Hobby King - ZIPPY COMPACT 3000MAH 6S 20C LIPO PACK W/XT60
Relay - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HWH1QVJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also had a switch for power and rj45 jack/plug


Appreciate the part links very much. Hopefully it wouldn't be too much trouble for your friend to provide details on the wiring.

[mb_pyro]

Nice. Thank you. I didn't realize the relays were in a module. A lot easier than all that wiring.