500 gram cake! Really?

[Pyroman5000]

Ok I have a question, might be a dumb one but it has me wondering. If it says 500 grams on the cake is it really a 500 gram cake or can they just say that and put 300 grams of powder inside a big cake and call it 500? I have shot some really weak cakes that say 500 gram and some that are really really good. The really good ones are no doubt 500 but some of the crap ones I have shot I have seen 200 gram cakes out preform these crappy so called 500 gram cakes. Anyone know why?

[MtnViewPyro]

I would say most are below 500grams to remain below the cut off. Just like 60gram can shells. Unless you are just wanting a cake with a long duration, any 500gram with more than 12 shots are going to be weak just for basic math. Like you I have seen some awesome ones, and others seemed just as powerful as a 200gram. I’ve also come across several impressive 350gram cakes. In summation, you will never go wrong with watching videos before buying.

[Icooclast]

In summation, you will never go wrong with watching videos before buying.

i second the above. if it wasn't for videos being posted on line, i doubt i'd even be willing to buy fireworks anymore. i'm not spending big money on what may be a lame firework. no matter how good it sounds.

[Pyroman5000]

I noticed this for years now but it just hit me the other day so I figured I would ask. The other day I set some off and couldn’t believe when I set off this 500 gram cake it was crap lol I have seen fountains look better. Just to be fair I even compared some of the cakes that had the same number of shots.

[Icooclast]

I noticed this for years now but it just hit me the other day so I figured I would ask. The other day I set some off and couldn’t believe when I set off this 500 gram cake it was crap lol I have seen fountains look better. Just to be fair I even compared some of the cakes that had the same number of shots.

well, i'm not sure, but i think it matters what the effects are as well, not just the actual explosive powder, but if it had several colors in it or just 1 or 2. as well as the effects. so, the way it was explained to me, was some cakes could have 49, 450 or even 400 grams of powder, all depends on number of shots, effects, colors, etc. that's just how i was informed years ago, though. not an expert.

[Pyroman5000]

Ya I’m sure there are a bunch of things that factor into it, I just wasn’t sure if some of the manufactures advertised some of there cakes as 500 gram when in fact they are way less.

[cptnding]

Ya I’m sure there are a bunch of things that factor into it, I just wasn’t sure if some of the manufactures advertised some of there cakes as 500 gram when in fact they are way less.

You bet your ass they do.
Some are worse than others. Stay informed and if possible watch the most current videos you can find before you buy. And go to demos if you can. You will generally see their new stuff and their best stuff at demo shoots. If you are buying by the piece there are quite often some hefty discounts at the demo.

[fatcat]

I had someone tell me that if they had over 200 grams then it fell into the next category (350) even if it was actually short of the 350 gram limit. Like wise for 500, if it was over 350 they had to call it 500. Also once a cake became popular the factory may cut down so as to make more money . Could be an old wives tale but also heard that the CPSC had rules about the max and mins for various shells/cakes. Like someone said, watch the vids and then make up your mind

[beaver nation]

I think most of those labels say "up to" 500grams. essentially if you go over 200g then the cakes have to be designed with the larger spacing and are in the "500g" category even though they could be anywhere from 201g to 500g. seems like even the best 500g cakes only have 480-490 range to not go over.

[Kenny East]

Gotta keep in mind that that's total weight of all composition, including fuse, time fuse, prime, lift, and effects. There are a bunch of rules regarding shot size, spacing, as well as composition. Some will shave a few grams to stay under the limit while others will give you every bit of 500grams and then some. Also makes a difference as to how close they follow the regulations on composition, a little extra for bigger breaks

[Pyroman5000]

I think most of those labels say "up to" 500grams. essentially if you go over 200g then the cakes have to be designed with the larger spacing and are in the "500g" category even though they could be anywhere from 201g to 500g. seems like even the best 500g cakes only have 480-490 range to not go over.
What brands do you have out where you live? You might get different ones then I can get around here. All of mine just say 500 grams I can’t find any that say up to 500. Lol if they did say up to 500 grams I would stay away anyways because you know they put that on there to cover there ass when they get called out on it not being a real 500 gram cake.

[Kenny East]

I've seen the same, up to 500 gram... They usually put it in small print with the 500 gram in big font. I just checked some in my shed, only one cake had the up to.. It was bright star brand. The red rhino didn't say it, neither did the others... Pretty sure winda and world class has those lables

[jknepp1954]

Technically - anything over 200 gram - such as 210 gr (otherwise it is an overload) - is a 500 gr cake. Yes - anywhere from 201 gr UP TO 500 gr is 500 gr. Then you have the tube spacing aspects as well - larger footprint etc.
There is an "unofficial" category called 350 gr - but that is just that - that's why you see alot of 6/1 500 gr cakes now - and a few 8/1 500 gr cakes.

[Pyroman5000]

I don’t mind if it’s not 500 gram as long as I don’t pay the 500 gram price lol. I have seen the 6/1 before and wondered how they was being sold for less then some of the 4/1 and kinda figured that’s what was going on, that they where not true 500 grams. I also noticed that some manufactures put other labels on the cake to let you know they are good. Not sure off the the top of my head but it’s either shogun or firehawk that said like 500 gram super or max load on it beside the 500 gram label and I seen I think it was brothers that say heavy hitter on some of there’s to let you know.

[jknepp1954]

THE 6/1 and 8/1 500s usually having a more affordable pricing tag. there are also some small cs of 4/1 - but smaller pricing tag.

[pimpdaddee28]

From what I remember, you can't have more than 40 grams of composition per tube in a 500 gram cake (and I also believe there is a 6 gram limit of black powder for each tube as well), which means that many of the 9-shot cakes don't even cross the 400 gram mark. Some of the best cakes that I've seen, based off people who have dissected them, have 450 grams max. I think the last cake that I saw that had that amount inside of it was a 12-shot cake.

So yeah, like what other people stated in this thread, the cakes that are the closest to 500 grams tend to have the most shots (like 30-shot cakes or Zipper cakes).

[pimpdaddee28]

THE 6/1 and 8/1 500s usually having a more affordable pricing tag. there are also some small cs of 4/1 - but smaller pricing tag.

Those are some of my favorites!! They were made with the idea to give the customer more bang for the buck and they definitely did not skimp on the performances for many of those cakes. Diamond Sky by Pyro Planet and Jingle Jangle by Shogun both performed very well for me last year and the both come 6 to case. I'm pretty sure I ended up paying around $9 for each cake (for both cases) after the discount I got from WF Boom and they were worth every penny. They're probably more along the lines of 350 gram cakes than 500 gram. Nevertheless, they'll either make great fillers for the middle portion of any show, or they'll make pretty good finales if the entire case is used all at once.

[Pyroman5000]

So here is a question do you think if the cake cost more that it is a better cake then a cheaper one? That’s kind of a hard question to answer too bc depending on where you buy the cake can make a huge difference on the price as well... I seen the same cake with a 20 dollar difference from one place to another, but you know what I mean lol... basically do you get what you pay for?

[ilovecrackle]

Technically - anything over 200 gram - such as 210 gr (otherwise it is an overload) - is a 500 gr cake. Yes - anywhere from 201 gr UP TO 500 gr is 500 gr. Then you have the tube spacing aspects as well - larger footprint etc.
There is an "unofficial" category called 350 gr - but that is just that - that's why you see alot of 6/1 500 gr cakes now - and a few 8/1 500 gr cakes.

Yeah, that was my understanding as well.

[ilovecrackle]

So here is a question do you think if the cake cost more that it is a better cake then a cheaper one? That’s kind of a hard question to answer too bc depending on where you buy the cake can make a huge difference on the price as well... I seen the same cake with a 20 dollar difference from one place to another, but you know what I mean lol... basically do you get what you pay for?

Not necessarily. Stores/tents will have different prices on the same item. But it really depends on the brand and quality of a cake. You just gotta do your research and know what you are looking for.
I have seen 200 gram cakes that blow the cheaper budget 500s away. I have also seen some of the budget cheaper 500s out perform more expensive 500 gram cakes.
Plus cake performance can change from year to year. One year it can be great, the next it can be complete garbage.
And I am talking about 100% legit consumer, not OL cakes. lol

I know this is a little different then what you asked but another thing to bring up is just because a cake weighs more, doesn't mean its better. I can't tell you how many times i have been in a retail store and seen an employee helping out a customer and bring up how much the cake weighs thats a lot more expensive than the cake sitting right next to it that is cheaper and very light. And with me knowing fireworks, knows that the lighter and cheaper cake blows the heavier and more expensive cake away in performance.
All it means is the heavier and more expensive cake has more clay in it. lol
By all means this does not apply to all cheap and expensive cakes but it is something to be aware of to look out for.

[Chiefsfan00]

I have ran into that before where a 500 gram is disappointing. It does pay to help research and watch the videos on them so you know if you will like it or not. I have seen the fireworks that say up to 500 grams but I haven't bought any of them.

[NWA_Fireworks]

There are definitely “budget” cakes out there with the 500 gram label on them. Price is usually an indicator. For example, the last few years, many tents in the Midwest and South carried a supposed 500 gram cake called Light Brigade at a price point of $19.99. It was a decent cake, but it was clearly in the unofficial “350 gram” category - more potent than the average 200g but lacking the finale-style punch of a true 500g cake. As a retailer, I’ve chosen to only stock cakes that I’ve personally seen perform. I have seen labels that say “up to 500 grams”, and if their performance is less than that of a true 500 gram cake, I price it accordingly, AND I inform my customer why it is priced slightly cheaper. My goal is to never have a customer be disappointed with a purchase. And, unlike basically every other tent, I price my cakes more according to their performance rather than a set markup percentage. Of course I need to make a minimum return, but my theory is, the $70 cake ought to be better than the $60 cake, regardless of the relative wholesale cost.

[rkmcdon]

That's a great business model Adam. I hope it pays off for you

[Icooclast]

There are definitely “budget” cakes out there with the 500 gram label on them. Price is usually an indicator. For example, the last few years, many tents in the Midwest and South carried a supposed 500 gram cake called Light Brigade at a price point of $19.99. It was a decent cake, but it was clearly in the unofficial “350 gram” category - more potent than the average 200g but lacking the finale-style punch of a true 500g cake. As a retailer, I’ve chosen to only stock cakes that I’ve personally seen perform. I have seen labels that say “up to 500 grams”, and if their performance is less than that of a true 500 gram cake, I price it accordingly, AND I inform my customer why it is priced slightly cheaper. My goal is to never have a customer be disappointed with a purchase. And, unlike basically every other tent, I price my cakes more according to their performance rather than a set markup percentage. Of course I need to make a minimum return, but my theory is, the $70 cake ought to be better than the $60 cake, regardless of the relative wholesale cost.

the only problem with doing it that way is you can't account for a person's individual taste. some one may hate the expensive one and love the cheaper one

[NWA_Fireworks]

the only problem with doing it that way is you can't account for a person's individual taste. some one may hate the expensive one and love the cheaper one

Fair point! But let me specify a little bit more. The “pricing relative to performance” happens among similar items where there is a clearly better product (quality of effects, duration, etc.). Of course my preferences will have some influence, but not to the point of whether peonies are better than chrysanthemums. It’s more of an attempt to determine if the customer will feel like they got a good value relative to the performance of the product.

It’s also worth mentioning that, given the amount of fireworks I’ve seen compared to the average customer, my customers count on my opinion and guidance. Our sales team is extremely knowledgeable, so we can describe the effects of each item we sell. If a customer prefers one effect over another or a slower paced, beautiful 500g vs. a fast paced (but shorter), exciting 500g, we can point them in the right direction. If they prefer one that we’ve priced at a lower price point, they win! If they prefer one at a higher price point, they still win, because we’ve helped them find what they love and have hopefully still priced it at a level that the customer feels is a value.

[Icooclast]

Fair point! But let me specify a little bit more. The “pricing relative to performance” happens among similar items where there is a clearly better product (quality of effects, duration, etc.). Of course my preferences will have some influence, but not to the point of whether peonies are better than chrysanthemums. It’s more of an attempt to determine if the customer will feel like they got a good value relative to the performance of the product.

It’s also worth mentioning that, given the amount of fireworks I’ve seen compared to the average customer, my customers count on my opinion and guidance. Our sales team is extremely knowledgeable, so we can describe the effects of each item we sell. If a customer prefers one effect over another or a slower paced, beautiful 500g vs. a fast paced (but shorter), exciting 500g, we can point them in the right direction. If they prefer one that we’ve priced at a lower price point, they win! If they prefer one at a higher price point, they still win, because we’ve helped them find what they love and have hopefully still priced it at a level that the customer feels is a value.

wow, it's so rare to find that kind of service anymore. usually you get the "i just work here" attitude

[NWA_Fireworks]

wow, it's so rare to find that kind of service anymore. usually you get the "i just work here" attitude

I appreciate that, and I agree. It’s something we try to do to set ourselves apart, because there are SO many fireworks tents out there. I worked for a major wholesaler for several years, running one of their tents. Last year, I decided to start my own retail business so I could carry fireworks from multiple wholesalers. We carried 250 different items last year, and I walked my staff through every one before we opened. Then during slow times, I had them walk the tent and look up videos on their phones so they could better describe the effects to customers. At night, I would demo the items that didn’t have online videos. The process ended up generating a lot of excitement amongst my employees, which became very apparent as I watched them engage with customers.

Oh, and uh, to get back on topic, yes. There are definitely cakes that say 500g but are more like 350g. We price and describe them as such so no one goes home disappointed.

[morrison2951]

The smaller 500g cakes such as Brothers Hit The Road, Jack and High Falutin don't pack quite the punch of the larger ones, but they've still been crowd pleasers in my shows for their effects, colors and 49 shots each duration.

[ttam23]

there are 2 category of fireworks cakes 200g and 500g , 200 g and 500g are the max powder each cake can have. but there is no lower limit. so a 500g cake can have less then 200g. a 500g cake will have spacing between the shots

[Icooclast]

there are 2 category of fireworks cakes 200g and 500g , 200 g and 500g are the max powder each cake can have. but there is no lower limit. so a 500g cake can have less then 200g. a 500g cake will have spacing between the shots

just thinking, while there is no law about them having to have a specific level of powder in them as long as it doesn't go over 500Gpowder in them. i do not think any cake marked as 500G would be 200, just for the sheer fact that it would be false advertising if someone checked into it, wouldn't they? after all a lot of the 500G cakes are labeled as such. (brothers usually puts "500 gram heavyweights" on theirs and other companies put a different phrase on them to let you know. so, if they were only a 200G cake, that is labeled as 500G they could likely be sued by someone (maybe by even a retailer/wholesaler) i'd think someone would notice eventually, wouldn't they? especially if they're like a lot of people here.