Pennsylvania Consumer Fireworks Sales.

[displayfireworks1]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡⊙ ͜ʖ ͡⊙) ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYlbhyPcSY4
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http://www.myonlinemaps.com/images/pennsylvania-map.gif

[MtnViewPyro]

Nice video Dave and very interesting. Interesting to me because being in Missouri the laws are (knock on wood) pretty much settled. I have noticed in Missouri, we have a relatively small amount of stores. The stores that do exist, are in suburbs of large cities. I believe this is to avoid paying higher taxes or possibly the larger cities have made it almost impossible to have a storefront within the city limits. Tents are a huge thing here in Missouri. Consider the town I live in has a population a little under 3,000, we have 3 tents pop up two weeks before the 4th lol. Again, these tents set a couple hundred yards outside the city limits because our city does not issue business license for that industry.

Another point for tents, I have noticed that most stores here in Missouri can not sell to Missouri residents outside the 4th and New Year. So on a business standpoint, why pay more for a license, structure, wages, etc., if your business plan is solely in-state holiday customers.

Look forward to seeing how everything evolves there. I would say before long, municipalities will begin making their own rules and regulations. If they can make a buck, they will find a way as well lol.

[jknepp1954]

Tents License are $3000 plus $1000 Application fee - OR $4000 total
Sales season is June 15 to July 8
Dec. 21 to Jan 2
They can only sell
Roman Candles
Helicopter/Airplane Spinners
200 gr and 500 gr cakes, Single PRE Loaded tube items.
Can't sell Firecrackers, Rockets, or artillery shell kits.

[chriskrc]

So from what you are saying jknepp is that tents are limited but a store front isn't, doesn't seem logical to have a tent.

[jknepp1954]

So from what you are saying jknepp is that tents are limited but a store front isn't, doesn't seem logical to have a tent.

YES - THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING. Logical? some thinks it best to do tent - some don't. pros and cons of both

[jamisonlm3]

A tent is cheaper, but you're limited in what you can sell? You can't sell parachutes in a tent? How about sparklers? Smoke bombs?

[jknepp1954]

A tent is cheaper, but you're limited in what you can sell? You can't sell parachutes in a tent? How about sparklers? Smoke bombs?

Yes = you can still sell the S&S items. and actually at only the 6% sales tx - not charged the 12% extra tx.
Parachute items should be ok as long as it is not a parachute rocket. They are are in the single tube catagory of mines/shells devices of APA 87-1

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Tents License are $3000 plus $1000 Application fee - OR $4000 total
Sales season is June 15 to July 8
Dec. 21 to Jan 2
They can only sell
Roman Candles
Helicopter/Airplane Spinners
200 gr and 500 gr cakes, Single PRE Loaded tube items.
Can't sell Firecrackers, Rockets, or artillery shell kits.

So basically $1K a week to sell a limited amount of products. That's insane.

[RalphieJ]

So basically $1K a week to sell a limited amount of products. That's insane.

Not really. When you understand how cheap those items are wholesale, and working with the mark-up the tents get retail, it's a good deal. The S&S tents here in NY sell completely out. One operator that I spoke to lost 5 days due to his permit being held up, sold everything out by 8:00 pm on the 4th, and netted $12K, in pocket. "Will you do it again next year?" "Hell yea!"

[MtnViewPyro]

Tents License are $3000 plus $1000 Application fee - OR $4000 total
Sales season is June 15 to July 8
Dec. 21 to Jan 2
They can only sell
Roman Candles
Helicopter/Airplane Spinners
200 gr and 500 gr cakes, Single PRE Loaded tube items.
Can't sell Firecrackers, Rockets, or artillery shell kits.

Odd they can sell 500gram cakes but not firecrackers lol. I don’t believe tents here are limited at all on the products they can offer as far as 1.4. I still believe tents are the way to go for just your simple retailer. In addition, a tent operation is an awesome idea for a summer business for college students, churches, and any fundraiser operation. If done properly, a tent operation will put a lot of extra cash into the bank.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Not really. When you understand how cheap those items are wholesale, and working with the mark-up the tents get retail, it's a good deal. The S&S tents here in NY sell completely out. One operator that I spoke to lost 5 days due to his permit being held up, sold everything out by 8:00 pm on the 4th, and netted $12K, in pocket. "Will you do it again next year?" "Hell yea!"

So the tents in NY are limited to 4 weeks of selling per year and limited products too?

[RalphieJ]

So the tents in NY are limited to 4 weeks of selling per year and limited products too?

Fountains, smoke, sparklers.......that's it. But the 500 gram fountains are awesome. When the liberals in Albany find out how loud and powerful they are, they'll be gone. Small S&S (junk) items were in Walmart and the big supermarket chains for New Years.

[displayfireworks1]

To update my post. The PA fireworks sales license list is now up to 55 total as of Jan 5, 2018. Some of the 55 are in pending status awaiting inspection.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Fountains, smoke, sparklers.......that's it.

Wooooow. That doesn't even seem worth the time to sell. But I guess if that's all you can get, people will buy them.

[displayfireworks1]

Here is a PowerPoint presentation Kellners used when they went around to educate various groups in Pennsylvania. I turned it into a video. Bob Kellner gave me permission to post it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-w6nmSjYAQ

[jamisonlm3]

Ok, I was watching that video and at 4:33 in the video, I felt something was off. It took me a few seconds, but then it clicked. That's a fireworks store not an hour from me.

[KELLFIRE mike]

Tents License are $3000 plus $1000 Application fee - OR $4000 total
Sales season is June 15 to July 8
Dec. 21 to Jan 2
They can only sell
Roman Candles
Helicopter/Airplane Spinners
200 gr and 500 gr cakes, Single PRE Loaded tube items.
Can't sell Firecrackers, Rockets, or artillery shell kits.

I just wanted to clarify that people can sell reloadable shells in the tents.

[Wholesale Fireworks]

I just wanted to clarify that people can sell reloadable shells in the tents.

Kellfire Mike....has something in the law changed? the image below has been snipped directly from the PA law and it clearly states that you cannot sell re loadable items in tents or temporary structures

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2867&stc=1

[PTFan]

All I see is it states "over 500 grams". I don't see the word reloadable?
60 gram per shell times 8 canisters = 480 grams
So I would think you can sell 6 packs and boxes of 8 reloadable shell kits?

[jknepp1954]

I am currently attempting to get a clarification from Harrisburg. It is rather ambiguous - as actually the whole law is IMO. :confused: :confused:

[jknepp1954]

I am currently attempting to get a clarification from Harrisburg. It is rather ambiguous - as actually the whole law is IMO. :confused: :confused:

Well found out what kellfiremike said is basically "clear as mud".
Theoretically speaking....then IF shell kits are legal - can you put into stands the HUGE cannister kits such as Excals? We even handle a 30 shell cannister kit. or just the smaller 6 to 12 pk kits? Or perhaps the Goliath kits? or big kits like BACK YARD HERO with 84 shells in kit?
Reason I mention this (and i am in no way going to say "thus saith the law" unless it is literally "thus saith the law") as from my personal opinion much of the current law as written is "open to interpretation".

[Fire Art]

Wouldn't a 24 kit of Excaliburs or Demon Shells be considered an assortment of 4 six packs each of which is 360 grams? A Goliath Kit isn't separated into individual kits so I wouldn't think it would qualify.

[Mattp]

Well found out what kellfiremike said is basically "clear as mud".

Hahaha.. clear as mud. I like that.. yes it definitely leaves alot to interpretation.. to me saying a shell not exceeding 500g should mean that you can sell as many as you want becuase each individual 1.4 shells are all max 60g. Even though theyre in one kit they are still separate devices under 500g each. . doesn't say per package .. well it doesnt say anythkng else for that matter.. lol

[Wholesale Fireworks]

the Pa law references APA 87-1 to provide the definition of fireworks. If you refer to APA 87-1 section 3.1.2.5 you have the definition of Mine and Shell devices which can legally be sold in temporary locations. Section 3.1.2.6 gives the definition of Arial Shell Kits and Reloadable tubes. Therefor reladables are not considered Mine and Shell devices and cannot be legally sold in a temporary location because they are completely different items and cannot be considered one in the same.

[Mattp]

Ahhhhhaaa.. well that makes more sense!!!! . without knowing the" legal definitions" of these items that last clip could lead to believe otherwise.. makes alot of sense that a mine and shell device would refer to a single item "cake" .. and separately an aerial shell would mean aerial shell.. thanks for the clarity.. im just a consumer so either way doesnt matter to me.. im gonna buy what i can get where i can get it.. lol
But i do like knowing things!!!

[KELLFIRE mike]

Kellfire Mike....has something in the law changed? the image below has been snipped directly from the PA law and it clearly states that you cannot sell re loadable items in tents or temporary structures

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2867&stc=1

Ray ... Reloadable shells are a MINE AND SHELL device. In addition, "LIMITED TO" means these are the only consumer fireworks item for sale in temporary structures along with all prior PA items.

[Wholesale Fireworks]

Ray ... Reloadable shells are a MINE AND SHELL device. In addition, "LIMITED TO" means these are the only consumer fireworks item for sale in temporary structures along with all prior PA items.

My question to you then .....why are they listed in APA 87 -1 as two SEPARATE sections and definitions if they are the same thing? I am not going to drag this out. By the definitions provided in APA 87-1 - We will not be recommending to any tent or stand operator that they sell reloadables. So that sour position on it.

[KELLFIRE mike]

My question to you then .....why are they listed in APA 87 -1 as two SEPARATE sections and definitions if they are the same thing? I am not going to drag this out. By the definitions provided in APA 87-1 - We will not be recommending to any tent or stand operator that they sell reloadables. So that sour position on it.

Sorry I don't get on here often so I probably shouldn't of even said anything. I do see that they are listed in APA 87-1 separately but in what you posted items 1 and items 2 reference 87-1 explicitly but item 3 they did not include the reference to 87-1. I'm not a lawyer and this is my personal thoughts on this. My personal feeling is there will be people/companies selling reloadable shells in tents this year.