PA House Bill 542

[JwinsPyro]

Good evening all, does anyone know more about this Pennsylvania house bill 542? Supposedly it passed in the PA Senate last night. If it goes further it would ban Display Fireworks from being used in Pennsylvania by anyone other than “Professional Pyrotechnicians” licensed by the PA Dept. of Agriculture. Thoughts??

[PyroManiacs]

PA has the highest number of Type 54 license holders in all of U.S.

[aerialpyro]

PA has the highest number of Type 54 license holders in all of U.S.

Under that law does a type 54 license fall under the definition of "Professional Pyrotechnicians” licensed by the PA Dept. of Agriculture"? I would hope so, but laws and regulations don't always follow reason...

From reading some of the text, it sounds like you will need to get another license, or fight for some amendments or rule making to make a type 54 equivalent to the dept of ag license.

Also violation of the provisions is a felony...

[jknepp1954]

everyone is unclear on this - ESPECIALLY the Dept of Ag. They didn't have a clue until they woke up yesterday morning....
They have only licensed the consumer facilites - never the display fireworks end.
All of this only raises hundreds of questions..... AND TRULY NO ANSWERS!

[JwinsPyro]

Typical government trying to get their hands in things.

[Adam PA Artist]

Yes it seems like its just another way for our state officials in government to get more money in they're hands from us licensee's because if more
certs will be required or further licensing obviously its more profit for them with yearly renewals. Alot of things going on withing the pyro industry
this year, some good others not to good this topic being one of them. And Joyce you are correct in what you have stated concerning the dept of
agriculture and them not being aware of this. Guess will see how this unfolds just like where all waiting on the results about the metals being
removed from 85% of aerial fireworks. Much is still up in the air but along with they're new proposals 1.4 may become completely legal in the
state of Pennsylvania which im sure many of you on here heard already.

[PyroManiacs]

Much is still up in the air but along with they're new proposals 1.4 may become completely legal in the
state of Pennsylvania which im sure many of you on here heard already.

This is a good thing, but bad with that 12% on top of the states 6% sales tax. Yikes!

[BillRoss]

The bill will be up for debate in the PA house at about 6:25pm this evening, Oct.17, 2017. You can view the proceedings at http://www.house.state.pa.us/video/housevideo.cfm

[BillRoss]

A follow up to my last post. The PA House Speaker just announced that the actual vote on the bill will take place at 10:40pm EDT this evening.

[displayfireworks1]

Great find thanks for posting. Currently it looks like they are in recess. I wonder if they record these sessions for later viewing? I would enjoy listening to it. I never realized they worked this late at night.

[Niceshellsdude]

watching the house session live right now.

[jknepp1954]

Bill passed house with some tweaking done - but now it goes back to the Senate.
102 to 88

[displayfireworks1]

I tried to find a video archive of the session but can not seem to find it. If someone can find it please post. It would be great to see it. I would be curious how all of the professional display companies in Pennsylvania feel about this?

[displayfireworks1]

I'm starting to make my move on this bill in Pennsylvania. I made calls to both my State Representative and State Senator. I reviewed the ATF licensed hobbyist considerations with them and other factors including Pennsylvania being the highest ATF licensed state in United States. I told them who I am and what I do, making myself available to them. I also requested if Consumer Fireworks go legal they do not allow local authorities to exempt themselves.
Both were very receptive to what I had to say and documented it. We will continue to monitor it.

[Mattp]

Thats great dave, i am not from pennsyvania, But as all us hobbyists are in the same boat when it comes to the mercy of laws and government regarding fireworks we need more people who are well versed in the facts and laws to speak up for our rights. . thank you for stepping up!!!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

What Mattp said!

[BillRoss]

The bill has passed! I received this email from Bob Kellner at 9:35pm last evening (Wed. Oct. 25):
"Today, the Pennsylvania Senate voted to pass HB 542. Upon this legislation being signed by the Governor, people will be allowed to purchase ANY Consumer Fireworks from a licensed distributor (such as our company) for use any day of the year, at virtually any location.

I don't know how long it takes for the Governor to respond but 1.4 fireworks will be legal in PA any day now.

[Icooclast]

The bill has passed! I received this email from Bob Kellner at 9:35pm last evening (Wed. Oct. 25):
"Today, the Pennsylvania Senate voted to pass HB 542. Upon this legislation being signed by the Governor, people will be allowed to purchase ANY Consumer Fireworks from a licensed distributor (such as our company) for use any day of the year, at virtually any location.

I don't know how long it takes for the Governor to respond but 1.4 fireworks will be legal in PA any day now.

YAY, congrats PA people. now Ohio needs to join them. lol do you need any permits for this new law or no?

[BillRoss]

...do you need any permits for this new law or no?

My understanding is that there are no restrictions except that you must be 150 feet away from any "occupied structure". So no permits needed.

[jknepp1954]

My understanding is that there are no restrictions except that you must be 150 feet away from any "occupied structure". So no permits needed.
close - but there is more. if you do show on someone else property - make sure you have permission.
If on public property not allowed - UNLESS you still go thru the permit - which has some MAJOR changes.

[jknepp1954]

FOR REFERENCE - Here is HB542, Printer number 2598
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2017&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0542&pn=2598
The fireworks points are pg 257 to 270.

[chriskrc]

Congrats PA , been a long time coming

[jbt68]

They snuck some things in with the bill of course, like an additional 12% tax on top of the regular 6% sales tax! Tent sellers are restricted in what they can sell, and the sales permit fees went through the roof! Thank your big-boy lobbyists for those little Easter Eggs! :-/

[displayfireworks1]

Fireworks Tax
• This bill proposes a new 12 percent tax on consumer fireworks purchases. This new levy would be in addition to existing sales and use taxes. This tax would not apply to purchases of professional fireworks or fireworks for agricultural purposes. Estimated revenue is $2.8 million in 2017/18. o In addition to the proposed tax, numerous regulations and licensing requirements (with the Department of Agriculture) would be added that would affect businesses selling consumer fireworks and professional pyrotechnic display companies. Regulations would be added requiring municipalities to use professional, licensed operators for public fireworks displays.

The governor must sign or veto legislation within 10 days after transmittal, or it becomes law without his/her signature.
.
The problem is there are other things attached to this bill that are not fireworks related that have some people upset.

[Niceshellsdude]

Estimated revenue 2.8 million? The sad part about all of this is will not solve the problem. The state is still running 1.5 billion in the red. Makes no dam sense to tax fireworks.

[yoshisbar]

So I read through this bill and see a bunch of money fueled politics with not much sense to any of it..
12% PLUS 6% tax most people will pay it to get them, drives the price up.. BUT ME....NAHHH SHIP them to my house!! No problem!!

WHERE does that leave the AFT licensed fireworks guy??
DAVE SAID I WAS SPECIAL!! REALLY HE DID! LOL

So basically if you know the fireworks law already, most of it (as I see) is still the same, municipalities can set the rules (but no mentions of HAVING TO SET THEM), But I guess when a lot more fireworks are available to pay for the government they may start setting the rules, 150ft for consumer fireworks being shot, SHOOTS (pun intended) a lot of people out of having a show in the city, but it should..
300FT for display is already the norm so nothing there..

Now 1 thing I read concerning display firework is a REQUIRED 50K BOND for a fireworks show, and I know the fire department inspection was also there before, but was that normal for display companies already? Hope that does not affect me...

[chriskrc]

Wow I guess I should have read the bill before I commented, sounds like some real possible issues with this bill.

[displayfireworks1]

I see nothing in this bill that going to stop us as users of fireworks. The upside is there is no additional tax on 1.3 products. I do see them trying to stop these guys dropping 1.3 for profit displays without the proper credentialing. All the more reason to become ATF licensed in Pennsylvania. As far as that bond requirement, if you shooting on your own property I have seen people use their home owners insurance, but that is not a guarantee. But if you do not permits for 1.4 can you mix in some 1.3? It appears the intent of the permits is to stop these small for profit freelancers not users of fireworks for entertainment. Can we still have fireworks shipped in from another state? I did not see that addressed.

[Zippster]

So their also going to tax you on tax? States the 12% is on top of the purchase price + tax.

[jknepp1954]

So their also going to tax you on tax? States the 12% is on top of the purchase price + tax.

Yes - that is correct....by the time you walk out of my store with a $1000 purchase - you will pay INSTEAD OF $1060 w/6% tax - will be $1,180 w/6% sales tx+ 12 % surcharge tax.
kind of like hotel taxes - only higher tx than hotels....that is how i see it. I just don't know how my ancient cash registers are suppose to ring up and separate the 2 tx. LOL

[jknepp1954]

Also in case some where not aware = - this HB542 is part 1 of an overall revenue pkg. There is a "mini casino bill" out there (forget the bill # - but it is 470 pg long!) that will add 10 mini casinos, airport casinos, truck stop casinos, online casino gambling etc.
here is a local newspaper acct on that - kind of an interesting read....
http://www.centredaily.com/news/business/article180976306.html

[Rick_In_Tampa]

They should just make cigarettes $10 a pack and leave the pyros alone.

[jknepp1954]

They should just make cigarettes $10 a pack and leave the pyros alone.
I don't smoke but i think they said Pa cigarettes are $8 pk?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I don't smoke but i think they said Pa cigarettes are $8 pk?

Wow... There you go! Only $2 and the pyros are spared. :cool:

[Rocketshooter]

The sad part about all of this is that the only reason the consumer fireworks are being legalized is to
grab more money for the state. If it did not have revenue problems, no fireworks.

[PGH_Pyro]

legalize weed/cannabis/marijuana and tax it the way alcohol is.
lots of revenue to be made. if you monetized all the people that are already consuming it, you'd have way more tax revenue than from fireworks. not that I am in favor of taxing everything in life...
even up in Ontario, Canada, they have legalized it and will be selling it via their liquor control board (L.C.B.O.)stores.
the states that already have done this are swimming in money that benefits fire fighters, police depts, schools, roads and etcetra.

[BillRoss]

Today Gov. Wolfe signed the bill into law. I won't say I'm happy with the 12% tax on top of the 6% standard sales tax, but it will still be nice to shoot with impunity on one's own property. And no permit needed to purchase.
The bill history can be viewed here: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billInfo/bill_history.cfm?syear=2017&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=542
and at the bottom it says "Approved by the Governor, Oct. 30, 2017".

[displayfireworks1]

Thanks for updating us with your post and link. When does it officially go into action? Can one of the Pennsylvania retailers tell us a little more when they find out.

[BillRoss]

Well, I'm certainly no expert in reading legislative wording but it appears to have taken effect immediately. As jknepp1954 was kind enough to provide the actual bill in an earlier post, I point to this wording:
On page 283-
(3) THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DECLARES THAT THE REPEAL UNDER
PARAGRAPH (4) IS NECESSARY TO EFFECTUATE THE ADDITION OF
ARTICLE XXIV OF THE ACT.
(4) THE ACT OF MAY 15, 1939 (P.L.134, NO.65), REFERRED
TO AS THE FIREWORKS LAW, IS REPEALED.

And then on 285:
(6) THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS SHALL TAKE EFFECT
IMMEDIATELY:
(I) THIS SECTION.
(II) THE REMAINDER OF THIS ACT.

[RalphieJ]

Wow, 12% more? As if the retail prices at the big-box stores aren't outrageous already.

[displayfireworks1]

I was actually there with Pennsylvania Governor Wolf during the bill signing. Here is the picture.
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2749&stc=1

[BillRoss]

Wow displayfireworks1, you look fabulous sitting there next to the Governor! Is this the prelude to you entering public service? Perhaps you can run for office with the platform of promising to repeal the 12% tax.

[yoshisbar]

All that trouble and you didn't put an academic pyro cake on the table??? lol

[displayfireworks1]

Putting the Academic Pyro cake in the picture. Now why did't I think of that. LOL. Speaking of Academic Pyro and Pyro Dave. Those two 500 Gram cakes will be readily available this season to distributors that want to carry them. Contact World Class fireworks for ordering information as we move closer to the usual fireworks season.

[nayslayer]

Will out of state purchasers also pay the same tax amount?

[yoshisbar]

after reading through the final bill, I do find it amazing that one thing that was done was to REPEAL the 1939 fireworks law, I did not expect that. I thought that the changes would just go on that, but to my surprise, they are more or less starting over. It was a crap grey area filled law to start with, but it was the law. I do see more changes later as in other states that have done this...Now it seems like the retail sellers have a "hey go ahead send us the money and do it" green light, no permit no problem give us your cash!!

At jknepp1954 (AND NO DISRESPECT TO YOU AT ALL) Why would you not be happy for all this? Yea taxes and new registers, but I think you might have a hard time keeping inventory with all the new customers you will have, because I know Kellner's was pretty empty last time I was there in august, so someone should get some containers rolling because new years this year is gonna be busy time!! lol
And if you want to do any tents hit me up I have a few great spots that would make killer money!!

[displayfireworks1]

That 1939 law in Pennsylvania was in effect for years. I applied for a permit near me once and they had their solicitor look it up and had me write a check for $500.00 as required by the statue. The "Bond" as written was $500.00 for clean if if necessary. The told me if they did not have to do any clean up they will destroy my check. Now the bond is $50,000.
When sales go legal in PA, the whole dynamics of how they are sold will change. I believe I read sales had to be in a free standing building. I suspect some of the big players will be building new stores closer to some of the larger cities centrally located in the state, as opposed the current strategy of placing a store near the border of the state to grab out of state customers. Rumor was some of the big players had a meeting during the NFA convention in PA to discuss the legal issue in PA.
It seems most people assume a fireworks distributor hearing that fireworks will go legal in his location is good news. It is not always true.

[jknepp1954]

after reading through the final bill, I do find it amazing that one thing that was done was to REPEAL the 1939 fireworks law, I did not expect that. I thought that the changes would just go on that, but to my surprise, they are more or less starting over. It was a crap grey area filled law to start with, but it was the law. I do see more changes later as in other states that have done this...Now it seems like the retail sellers have a "hey go ahead send us the money and do it" green light, no permit no problem give us your cash!!

At jknepp1954 (AND NO DISRESPECT TO YOU AT ALL) Why would you not be happy for all this? Yea taxes and new registers, but I think you might have a hard time keeping inventory with all the new customers you will have, because I know Kellner's was pretty empty last time I was there in august, so someone should get some containers rolling because new years this year is gonna be busy time!! lol
And if you want to do any tents hit me up I have a few great spots that would make killer money!!


There are always pros and cons to the issue. I call it "residual collateral".
Retail stores - now we have to pay AT LEAST twice as much $$ for our License. Before we were restricted to the size of store 12,000 SF (which is more than enough room). Now it is unlimited...no sense in that IMO.
Incorporates NFPA 1124 into LAw - not use to that still doing research as to what that does - but I am sure it is not good.
12% tx was originally intended to go to the state treasurey - with only the 2% going to the fire dept - which is a slap in ttohe face to them. During the back and forth did transition. now all 12% goes to the EMS fund. As well it should. They are going to be the ones who responds when the IDIOTS get out there and act like total morons! Then anything can happen!
We have found a few conflicting wording. One thing that really CONFUSES me is what do we actually ring the tax up on? As the definition as "consumer fireworks" is found as APA standard 87-1 and the very paragraph says "consumer fireworks definition". Next paragraph - "these are not consumer fireworks - ftns sparklers, novelties, toy caps/snaps. So does the pa legal/S&S get taxed? OR NOT??? CONFUSING....
Originally it had the DISPLAY fireworks being "licensed by the Dept of Ag" and a whole bunch of crap along with that - but it went away - thank goodness...
We have spoke to several PA folks over the past 3 months and asked if they would be willing to pay the 12% and they said yes. A few complained but since they could do crackers, etc would be worth it. at that point you are just talking about the small customers - those who pay $100 to $500 give or take. Now you are talking the bigger customers buying cs. spending 2k to 5k. ARE YOU WILL TO SHELL OUT THE EXTRA $240 TO $600 in taxes????
I guess just wait and see - the wholes sales is going to be totally different. We have been in biz for 20 yrs but you get companies like Kellners who have been in biz for 70 yrs and NOW THE FIREWORKS LANDSCAPE HAS TOTALLY CHANGED.....TOTALLY!
Going to be interesting is all I can say....

[jknepp1954]

That 1939 law in Pennsylvania was in effect for years. I applied for a permit near me once and they had their solicitor look it up and had me write a check for $500.00 as required by the statue. The "Bond" as written was $500.00 for clean if if necessary. The told me if they did not have to do any clean up they will destroy my check. Now the bond is $50,000.
When sales go legal in PA, the whole dynamics of how they are sold will change. I believe I read sales had to be in a free standing building. I suspect some of the big players will be building new stores closer to some of the larger cities centrally located in the state, as opposed the current strategy of placing a store near the border of the state to grab out of state customers. Rumor was some of the big players had a meeting during the NFA convention in PA to discuss the legal issue in PA.
It seems most people assume a fireworks distributor hearing that fireworks will go legal in his location is good news. It is not always true.
$500 bond VS $50,000.
Write a check out for $500 (which is chump change now adays) - all is good - get check back no problem.
BUT....write a check out for $50,000 to hold??? Now longer chump change - can you literally back it up in your bank acct if something horrible would happen????
Meeting in Erie - held to discuss what we thought of the HB542 - NO ONE LIKED IT! NO ONE!!!!! That is how it was written. A good majority like the idea of legal consumer fireworks - BUT LET THE INDUSTRY WRITE THE BILL. We the fireworks industry literally had NO input into the bill itself. Literally NO ONE on capital listen to the industry -
Bob Kellner said it best in an email to one of the clubs, "....This whole thing has been one surprise after another. A fireworks bill passes that the fireworks people had nothing to do with....."

[RalphieJ]

When the fireworks industry got involved in the legislative process when the CPSC banned salutes, the industry warned the feds that a huge bootleg industry would result, with no regulation or enforcement as to size and power of the illegal product. And they were right. In 1968 I purchased 3" x 3" ground salutes out of the trunk of a Lincoln in Little Italy NYC. The feds should have listened.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Now you are talking the bigger customers buying cs. spending 2k to 5k. ARE YOU WILL TO SHELL OUT THE EXTRA $240 TO $600 in taxes????
I guess just wait and see - the wholes sales is going to be totally different. We have been in biz for 20 yrs but you get companies like Kellners who have been in biz for 70 yrs and NOW THE FIREWORKS LANDSCAPE HAS TOTALLY CHANGED.....TOTALLY!
Going to be interesting is all I can say....

DISCLAIMER - I don't know JACK about the price structure of fireworks. I'm told the retail markup is between two and four times the actual purchase price. So I base my comments on that (mis?) information:

As someone who's in the $2K - $5K range, let me offer this up to you. I'm still buying what I want! Period.

Having said that... By tacking on a 12% tax, it seems to me the legislators just handed you a great marketing tool. You could easily lower the retail prices by 12% (or 10% or 8%, etc.) and offer a "We pay the sales tax!" special/promotion once or twice a year. If people think they're not going to pay 12% in ADDITIONAL taxes, they're going to flock to your store. The reduction in price would be more than offset by the increase in customers/sales. IMHO, even if you do charge the 12%, with the passage of this law, your net sales would HAVE to increase because my guess is people who never used to buy fireworks will now jump into the hobby.

I don't know what your overhead is, and I certainly don't know how your costs might increase as a result of having to comply with NFPA 1124. Obviously all that needs to be taken into account. But it seems to me that if you minimally lower the prices and increase the customer base, you're going to be making MORE money than in the past.

If I'm FOS just say so and I'll shut up. :rolleyes:

[displayfireworks1]

What if any fireworks tax is in the state of Ohio currently? Who knows, the marketing strategy for the state of Ohio will be to still attract PA customers with a lower sales tax. My concern is more towards rules for discharge of fireworks. I did not see where individual cities can exempt themselves from the state law. I ask my local officials to consider not allowing individual exemptions. I'm still trying to find out how soon after the governor signs the bill does it become official. I will probably light my back yard up to celebrate when it is official.

[yoshisbar]

Ohio is 6% sales tax period.... AT Dave, I am still reading and understanding the rest of the bill (there are more notes and small changes but nothing big). now what I am reading (and no lawyer here) is NO FIREWORKS withing 150ft of an occupied structure PERIOD... and the fine for that?? $max $100?? And they can take your fireworks too...Seems to be creating a state like that place in California you have videos about right LOL??? On drugs or drunk fines are bigger, but basically telling cities (I THINK) can't opt out just fine them... Dave I don't think you could lite stuff in your backyard and some one not call the cops!?!

And becomes official Oct 30 when signed, I have heard (not confirmed) a few retailers are already selling to pa people

[jknepp1954]

We are going to start to selling Friday to PA FOLKS. But only 2 days a week right now - Friday and Sat - other times by appointment. This for the past 19 yrs have been in my OFF SEASON WE ARE CLOSED MODE....but things have changed - at least for now. We had to change over and reprogram our cash registers for the change over. I am not sure if towns can opt out or not....that remains to be seen.
TO RICK IN TAMPA - a stores overhead is very high. some higher than others because of size of store....is it located on your personal property (lower overhead) or pay through the nose on a lease....or buying and paying a high monthly mortgage? now we have to pay double for state license (previously was already the highest licensed fee of a fireworks biz in the USA). To do a stand is literally highway robbery license....
To do a 12% discount is up to each individual store in reality. For the sake of arguement...we at Kneppy's do offer a VIP Program for our retail customers. Buy $500 or more - get 10% off. PLUS get $100 free! Works like a charm! Are we going to do this still with this new law? Not sure yet....but we will still honor our coupons for those that still have them.
BTW - the 12% does NOT go to the state budget - but rather goes to our EMS services for GRANT programs and such - so a good cause in reality.
for Ohio if/when it passes - I think Ray had said it would be 6% extra tx? He would have to chime in to confirm....

[yoshisbar]

We are going to start to selling Friday to PA FOLKS..

Jknepp1954 Would love to hear how that goes.. I have seen a few fireworks around here in the last few days and have to yell at my neighbors "NOT ME" LOL

[PyroInGB]

We are going to start to selling Friday to PA FOLKS..

I talked to The Department of Agriculture last week. They told us that we need to reapply for our fireworks license and receive it before we can sell to PA residents. Until then we have to abide by the old license laws.

[jknepp1954]

We are going to start to selling Friday to PA FOLKS..

I talked to The Department of Agriculture last week. They told us that we need to reapply for our fireworks license and receive it before we can sell to PA residents. Until then we have to abide by the old license laws.
YES - this is TRUE! But you have to RECEIVE the NEW license first. "Hopefully" We will have new license in hand by early next week....Just got forms in mail today....

[DexTee]

It looks like all of that tax is designated to go to fire and emergency services ... that is great, but I would like to see a lot of it go toward safety training to the public, since they will be the ones now using these "higher-risk" consumer fireworks. My best advice to anyone using aerial fireworks, STABALIZE each product! :)

[jknepp1954]

It looks like all of that tax is designated to go to fire and emergency services ... that is great, but I would like to see a lot of it go toward safety training to the public, since they will be the ones now using these "higher-risk" consumer fireworks. My best advice to anyone using aerial fireworks, STABALIZE each product! :)
Correct - in print anyway. I have a feeling that our state as in alot of states when it all comes out - will be a different picture!
Training to the public - kind of hard to do on a state wide Project. I know our company will definitely be pro active on this and offer at various times of the year some training and safety seminars. Also on our bags has safety tips. I personally and some of our employees already do stress many dos and donts on putting off fireworks. I just gotta now make it very stressed to ALL of our employees.

[RalphieJ]

It looks like all of that tax is designated to go to fire and emergency services ... that is great, but I would like to see a lot of it go toward safety training to the public, since they will be the ones now using these "higher-risk" consumer fireworks. My best advice to anyone using aerial fireworks, STABALIZE each product! :)

Coincidentally, after a minor incident this summer that could have gone tragic, I was thinking how the industry could reduce the incidence of accidents (and liability!). Simply adding more clay to the bottom of cakes and mortars would tend to eliminate most tip-overs. The addition of an attachable plastic spike with reloadables might be a good idea as well. I realize that the addition of clay would be an added expense (especially shipping), but could be far offset with reduced liability claims. If not, just pass the incremental cost to the consumer. Many years ago I stopped at South of the Border and noticed a number of multi-shot cakes with particle-board platforms attached and was wondering if that was a requirement in SC or some other nearby state. In closing, I think that the industry could be more proactive in preventing mishaps.

[flashfuse]

Coincidentally, after a minor incident this summer that could have gone tragic, I was thinking how the industry could reduce the incidence of accidents (and liability!). Simply adding more clay to the bottom of cakes and mortars would tend to eliminate most tip-overs. The addition of an attachable plastic spike with reloadables might be a good idea as well. I realize that the addition of clay would be an added expense (especially shipping), but could be far offset with reduced liability claims. If not, just pass the incremental cost to the consumer. Many years ago I stopped at South of the Border and noticed a number of multi-shot cakes with particle-board platforms attached and was wondering if that was a requirement in SC or some other nearby state. In closing, I think that the industry could be more proactive in preventing mishaps.


Why should the consumer pay more for more clay, if shooting on concrete its easy to brace the cake with 2 bricks or cinderblocks which should be done anyway no matter what, If shooting a cake on grass , its very easy to just use a stake and duct tape. This is very inexpensive and a must for safety. If a person is safety conscience there should never be a mishap with a cake tipping over ,period.

[DexTee]

If a person is safety conscience there should never be a mishap with a cake tipping over ,period.

Unfortunately, being safety conscience is not a prerequisite to purchase fireworks. But this leads to a good point -- perhaps purchasers/shooters should have something similar to a driver's license that is renewed every so many years, showing that they have gone to a safety course and proved that they understand the safety measures to take (similar to a driver's test). This could follow very similarly to what those shooting professional items go through, but on a lighter scale. I'm sure the last thing any state wants to do is incorporate more administration work and costs, but if they are truly concerned with safety, it would seem to make some good sense.

[PyroManiacs]

I don't agree about needing or having a license to use 1.4. We don't need anymore mommies and daddies holding our hands while we try to have our fun. We are adults and should have the freedom to do as we wish, within good morals of course. ;)

[DexTee]

I don't agree about needing or having a license to use 1.4. We don't need anymore mommies and daddies holding our hands while we try to have our fun. We are adults and should have the freedom to do as we wish, within good morals of course. ;)

I also truly agree with you.
But if states will not allow us to purchase them (or even take those rights away) due to accidents and incidents, I would rather have an option or route to still be able to purchase them, being a responsible shooter.

It reminds me of our right to bear arms… We do have that right, unless the state says otherwise, and limits it or makes it extremely difficult to obtain.

And it is the few bad apples, along with the dramatic media exploiting firework incidents caused by those few, that can truly ruin so much of it for so many. :-(

[RalphieJ]

Why should the consumer pay more for more clay, if shooting on concrete its easy to brace the cake with 2 bricks or cinderblocks which should be done anyway no matter what, If shooting a cake on grass , its very easy to just use a stake and duct tape. This is very inexpensive and a must for safety. If a person is safety conscience there should never be a mishap with a cake tipping over ,period.

It's the knuckleheads that don't think or care about safety after a long day of partying that we're trying to protect to prevent the anti-pyros to point to as examples of the hazards when they want to limit or ban our fireworks.

[flashfuse]

It's the knuckleheads that don't think or care about safety after a long day of partying that we're trying to protect to prevent the anti-pyros to point to as examples of the hazards when they want to limit or ban our fireworks.

Unfortunately, those knuckleheads will always exist and do dumb things no matter what is done to improve fireworks . Alcohol (partying) and fireworks don't mix period! The more money spent to make fireworks safer will not fix stupid, and we will just end up paying more for nothing. Now spending more money on educating people to use fireworks in a safe manner might be something to look. But then again, like I said you just cant fix stupid no matter what.

[Wholesale Fireworks]

What if any fireworks tax is in the state of Ohio currently? Who knows, the marketing strategy for the state of Ohio will be to still attract PA customers with a lower sales tax. My concern is more towards rules for discharge of fireworks. I did not see where individual cities can exempt themselves from the state law. I ask my local officials to consider not allowing individual exemptions. I'm still trying to find out how soon after the governor signs the bill does it become official. I will probably light my back yard up to celebrate when it is official.

Dave, The sales tax in Ohio is determined by the county they operate in. In Trumbull County our Niles and Hubbard stores apply a 6.75% sales tax, but our Canton store only has to charge 6.5% because thy are located in Stark county. So the local sales tax in Ohio is based on the county the location is selling from. Someone had also mentioned that some PA store are already selling to PA residents. According to the new law the PA stores have to apply for the NEW fireworks license to sell all consumer 1.4g fireworks to PA residents. UNTIL that license is approved and issued, they are still selling under their old license and can only sell as provided by their old license. So that means PA residents cannot purchase a full line of 1,4g from a PA store until that store is issued their new license.
The state of PA sent out an information packet to all current license holders in the state of PA that outlines this if you are curious to where I got this info. It sucks for the current license holders because their current license is valid until at least June of 2018 but they still have to apply for the new license if they want to sell the entire consumer line to PA residents

[Zippster]

Unfortunately, those knuckleheads will always exist and do dumb things no matter what is done to improve fireworks . Alcohol (partying) and fireworks don't mix period! The more money spent to make fireworks safer will not fix stupid, and we will just end up paying more for nothing. Now spending more money on educating people to use fireworks in a safe manner might be something to look. But then again, like I said you just cant fix stupid no matter what.

Dont forget about Youtube, it fuels even more dumbasses....

[jknepp1954]

Dave, The sales tax in Ohio is determined by the county they operate in. In Trumbull County our Niles and Hubbard stores apply a 6.75% sales tax, but our Canton store only has to charge 6.5% because thy are located in Stark county. So the local sales tax in Ohio is based on the county the location is selling from. Someone had also mentioned that some PA store are already selling to PA residents. According to the new law the PA stores have to apply for the NEW fireworks license to sell all consumer 1.4g fireworks to PA residents. UNTIL that license is approved and issued, they are still selling under their old license and can only sell as provided by their old license. So that means PA residents cannot purchase a full line of 1,4g from a PA store until that store is issued their new license.
The state of PA sent out an information packet to all current license holders in the state of PA that outlines this if you are curious to where I got this info. It sucks for the current license holders because their current license is valid until at least June of 2018 but they still have to apply for the new license if they want to sell the entire consumer line to PA residents

Ray - you are totally correct on that. We can still sell as always under old license. But can't sell to PA until NEW License issued.
We had also got email from Dept of Ag saying many apps being returned due to incorrect or insufficient info. Thus delays.
Yeah - my current lic expires May - so like 6 months totally wasted that i paid for - GRRRR. but it is what it is....

[displayfireworks1]

Does or will the State of Pennsylvania monitor inventory records as a way of checks and balances. Will they know if I pay $2000 cash for product and walk out the back door to my truck without paying any tax ? I know with 1.3 product that can always look over inventory records as required by the ATF. Does the new license requirement demand inventory review by the state in some fashion? How if at all does it change anything for those Pennsylvania residents that have fireworks shipped to them?

[jknepp1954]

inventory control on 1.4? Whats that? LMAO!
No way of knowing by those who use regular cash register systems. Point of sale system? - never used one so can't answer that.

[displayfireworks1]

Year back we tried to avoid sales tax on a 1.3 purchase by paying cash, the distributor would not do it because of the ATF records of purchase. But hey, apparently we don't have that extensive inventory record with 1.4 products. Over the years I always tried to purchase fireworks with cash. It just felt proper to do it that way.

[PyroManiacs]

Cash...the only way I pay.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

within good morals of course. ;)

You just blew your own argument out of the water. Unfortunately there's no way to weed out the morons from the responsible people when you're selling fireworks. Especially online.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

It reminds me of our right to bear arms… We do have that right, unless the state says otherwise, and limits it or makes it extremely difficult to obtain.

And it is the few bad apples, along with the dramatic media exploiting firework incidents caused by those few, that can truly ruin so much of it for so many. :-(

The problem with your safety course idea is the same as with the gun argument you made. No law ever created stopped a criminal from breaking the law. Laws are only meant to keep the honest people honest.

In Florida fireworks are illegal except for agricultural use. Yet every 4th of July the entire state lights up!! We're all technically criminals breaking the law. I've been through (and passed!) the PGI display operators course and I have years of experience. But my guess is 99.9% of the rest of the people down here don't have any formal training. Sad, but true. Even then, I still break the law every July 4th!

[Wholesale Fireworks]

Does or will the State of Pennsylvania monitor inventory records as a way of checks and balances. Will they know if I pay $2000 cash for product and walk out the back door to my truck without paying any tax ? I know with 1.3 product that can always look over inventory records as required by the ATF. Does the new license requirement demand inventory review by the state in some fashion? How if at all does it change anything for those Pennsylvania residents that have fireworks shipped to them?

Dave I dont know about the inventory but I doubt that will come into play. As for shipping customers, If they are purchasing from us, then they are buying in Ohio so their is no tax if we are shipping to PA

[jknepp1954]

Update:
First of all i had received email of the question - are there any fireworks stores that got license under this new law?
Answer: As of Yesterday - NO!!!
What does this mean? No one is legally allowed to sell to pa residents the full line of fireworks.
"but i hear the abc fireworks and xyz fireworks have been ever since oct. 30?"
if they have - they have done so illegally. That first week i think everyone did - but we all got very explicit emails from the powers that be - don't do it!

[jknepp1954]

Let me also add - we can still sell under the old law as we always have until Jan 28. Sell only to out of state residents, S&S to Pa folks, or with a local permit.
Most are hoping to get their license in time for the NYE sales - so holding our breath!

[displayfireworks1]

Joyce, thanks for the update. I have a question, are we allowed to shoot fireworks in PA? I understand the delay in sales and proper license to sell, is there a delay for the average user to shoot them or are we good to shoot as of today. Maybe you can ask that PA organization that represents most PA retailers, perhaps they can answer. I'm getting emails from my YouTube subscribers, I'm not sure what to tell them. Can we start shooting or do we need to wait?

[jknepp1954]

Good Question - unfortunately I don't have a absolute correct answer - just an opinionated one.
In my opinion (which is NOT to be taken literally) the old law was repealed. So therefor the new law is in effect as far as the shooting of the fireworks.
But I have heard law enforcement disagrees.

[DWC4867]

This law enforcement doesn't... ;)