I have a bone to pick with MJG

[Bazerk]

After conversations with people in the industry and doing my own testing and figuring, I have found that MJG firewire screwed me up good and proper this year and I am less than thrilled about it. Up until this year, I have used MJG with no problems what so ever and couldn't have been happier with the product. After this year, I can say with confidence, that I will have a very hard time buying the matches again after what I dealt with across two shows using them. I had my first "professional" show for 350 people that I didn't know waiting to see an amazing show. They ended up enjoying it but it wasn't without embarrassment due to matches not firing. The opening sequence of both of my shows were botched due to faulty matches and that sucks. Moving through both shows, I had several matches not go at all. In total after using 300 or so matches across 2 shows I would say that I had 10-15 bad ones. I know that percentage seems low, but I assure you that its not low enough, especially when you get a 1:15 pause in your show right in the middle. People didn't know whether to clap, leave or wait patiently for me to fix the issue. I know some of you guys have had similar issues, but how deep does this problem run? I still have like 7 boxes of them left and I don't really feel like I should have to check every one of them prior to using them. I will upload a photo or two of what the problem looks like so you can spot it before you have an unfortunate issue like me.

[ajp989]

So you can actually see a problem with the defective e-match?

[Bazerk]

So you can actually see a problem with the defective e-match?

Yep. There may be some I cant see, but I can look at ones I had a problem with and see why on many of them. I will be posting pictures tonight. Stay tuned.

[yoshisbar]

Bazerk you HAVE your type 54 don't you? Forgive me if it sounds like I am bashing anyone, I AM not. Why get the firewires? Why not just get the regular e-match, it is cheaper, fires and does well for millions of shells. That product was MADE for people who don't have a type 54! So if it is bad, joe consumer won't complain, he is happy to have it. Same thing with tannerite cakes, I would buy one to have a boom cake if I didn't have a type 54 but I do, so I buy thunderkings, better and WAY cheaper...

[vegassalute]

I agree. All due respect to those that market the initiators or whatever they're called, but take the 7 boxes you have left and safely dispose of them. You're talking about a failure rate of 3.5% to 5%. What if 5% of commercial flights didn't land safely? Totally unacceptable. And remember, as Pyros, our reputations hinge upon the accurate firing of each and every effect. Our brand is only as good as our weakest show! Go with e-match and don't look back.

[Pyro Paul]

A picture is worth a thousand words Bazerk :p

[ajp989]

I had no choice but to pick up a few boxes of the non regulated initiators because MJG ran out of regular e match they said they had a bad year with machines breaking. I didnt have any problems but this makes me nervous to use any more. Having failed e-matches can ruin a show.

[Pyro Paul]

I still have not seen any proof that it was the product and not the equipment. How do we know that the cobra did not fail to deliver the right voltage and amperage to perform the operation of lighting the match? There is a lot more to a cobra system than there is to a match. Half of my show did not go up, I find it hard to believe that half of the intiators in a box of 80 were bad... It's easy to point the finger, how bout some proof to back up the finger pointing? Need I remind everyone that cobra is selling the mjg firewire initiators? If they sell them then they must feel confident enough in their equipment that it will work... Just saying...

[yoshisbar]

I still have not seen any proof that it was the product and not the equipment. How do we know that the cobra did not fail to deliver the right voltage and amperage to perform the operation of lighting the match? There is a lot more to a cobra system than there is to a match. Half of my show did not go up, I find it hard to believe that half of the intiators in a box of 80 were bad... It's easy to point the finger, how bout some proof to back up the finger pointing? Need I remind everyone that cobra is selling the mjg firewire initiators? If they sell them then they must feel confident enough in their equipment that it will work... Just saying...

I do agree very much with you!
But what I am saying, these are AIMED at consumers, not professionals, and to do that they have to go by different standards, I would bet the firewire is NOT the same composition OR maybe voltage requirement as a regular match, because if it was it wouldn't pass consumer criteria. I bet it maybe a combo of need to have cobra set like you were firing a talon (longer cycle) than if you fired a e-match which is instant. But my thought was if you bought a bunch of 3" shells why pay extra for a consumer item to fire them, when you can get the good stuff cheaper.. Yes they maybe out of them but lots of places carry them they, lose a sale, Don't skimp if you paying that much for a maybe...

[gt95stang300]

Out of 130 or so initiators i had none fail to light and all were wired in series of 4 so they worked for me perfectly. Was there maybe a handling or storage problem to cause the issue?

[Bazerk]

Ok let me explain. I do have my 54 and I do usually get e-match. However, I ended up with a lot more product than I anticipated and ran through all of my e-match before I made it to doing my own personal show. I dont have any 1.3 people anywhere near me to just go and pick up more e-match so I did what I had to do which was to order product that could be shipped. Let me also state that I have shot entire shows with MJG fire wire without fail in the past which is another reason why I felt confident in ordering from them again. Jeff has always done right by me so I continue to use his company for product when I need it. Trust me, I would rather use e-match, but when in a pinch, you gotta do what you gotta do. In saying that, there were admitted quality control issues with some batches of the MJG product. I explained to Jeff one of the problems I had in the field and he attested to the fact that what I explained to him would in fact cause the match not to fire. Could it be the Cobra Mod? Maybe. Could it happen on 3 out of 8 mods in the same show on random cues? Doubt it. I had fresh batteries in everything, I was within 100ft of the modules and I have used that system flawlessly many times in the past. The very first cake didn't fire on my show on the 4th so I scrambled, checked continuity, restarted the 18R2 and executed the script a second time. Nothing. Ran to my truck, swapped out the match and executed the script a third time and viola, it fired. The cause of that failure was that the two wires that get soldered to the match head were crossed over each other. This will allow continuity to pass but will not allow the match to fire. At the end of the day, some of us were embarrassed on the 4th due to issues completely out of our control. Its frustrating and when I do a little research and get enough info from both the manufacturer and other business owners in the industry, I have to assume that its very likely that the firewire was to blame. I havent heard of many people reporting they Cobra systems not firing due to lack of voltage. I know not everyone is a Cobra user and I know its not a perfect system, but I also know that after the cues that did fail, every time I replaced the firewire that was in said cue, it fired. Lastly, you guys should know by now that I typically spare no expense when it comes to this hobby. Money isn't the reason I didnt have the real e-match. Hell, I was going to be 2 cues short for my show and I called Scott and had him overnight me another module. I figured if I was having one over nighted, why not just get 2? So I did. Why> Because I have issues, lol. When I get a few mins to dig through the firewire pile I will try to find the crossed wire one and post it so you can at least spot those if you run across them.

[Bazerk]

Out of 130 or so initiators i had none fail to light and all were wired in series of 4 so they worked for me perfectly. Was there maybe a handling or storage problem to cause the issue?

Anything is possible. I can tell you that I purchased 600 10 foot firewires. I used a little over 300 of them and only 10-15 didnt go. As stated before, I have used that many in a show and had every single on go as well. They are all stored in a nice dry garage and for no more than 3 weeks.

[Pyro Paul]

Thanks Bazerk, Now I can understand your statement much better. I've decided to recreate the circumstances I had last Saturday night, this Saturday night so that I can sit with the mods while my wife presses the autostart and follow along with the printed script to see if the modules are at least lighting with the cues, I need to do it under load but I don't have anything for that right now, but at least that will show that the modules and remote are talking. As for the crossed wires in the firewires, that could explain why I was showing continuity on cues that had spent matches in them. It's hard to believe that many could be bad but as you said, anything is possible and I'm trying to attack this from all angles so that I can find out exactly what happened before I attempt another show which I'm thinking will be Labor Day to make up for the lack of show on the 4th. At least then I can face my neighbors again lol. It's hard to keep a sense of humor when something you paid and worked so much for goes down the crapper so I apologize if I sound critical. I'm just in search of the facts right now.

[gt95stang300]

I ordered mine way back in feb so maybe there was a rush in production getting closer to the 4th of july that caused the issues, hopefully that will get squared away because thats not good for business at all as alot of people order last minute. I know one thing i hope he does go ahead with production of the 15 ft imatches as i couldve used them this year because 10 ft just wasnt enough in some cases

[djsmurf]

"I explained to Jeff one of the problems I had in the field and he attested to the fact that what I explained to him would in fact cause the match not to fire."

I would be interested to know what this problem was.

[cherrybomb1]

I put on a backyard show for friends and family nothing as sophisticated as the majority of most of you guys.My set up was 1 18r2 and 2 18m mods and the mjg initiators.I hooked up 2 showgun fan cakes in series and it showed no continuity so i hooked them up to there own cue and everything checked out fine.low an behold when i shot my show one of the two didn't fire.These initiators were delivered the last week in june.

[Bazerk]

Thanks Bazerk, Now I can understand your statement much better. I've decided to recreate the circumstances I had last Saturday night, this Saturday night so that I can sit with the mods while my wife presses the autostart and follow along with the printed script to see if the modules are at least lighting with the cues, I need to do it under load but I don't have anything for that right now, but at least that will show that the modules and remote are talking. As for the crossed wires in the firewires, that could explain why I was showing continuity on cues that had spent matches in them. It's hard to believe that many could be bad but as you said, anything is possible and I'm trying to attack this from all angles so that I can find out exactly what happened before I attempt another show which I'm thinking will be Labor Day to make up for the lack of show on the 4th. At least then I can face my neighbors again lol. It's hard to keep a sense of humor when something you paid and worked so much for goes down the crapper so I apologize if I sound critical. I'm just in search of the facts right now.

Its all good my friend, I too am in search of facts because I don't want this to happen to me or anyone else in the future if possible.

[adultuser]

I feel your pain. That sucks. I've never used them, so this may be a dumb question, but can you test for continuity? And if so, did they still not fire?
I always do test, but I'm nowhere near 300 ques, so I'm not questioning your methods at all.

[Bazerk]

I feel your pain. That sucks. I've never used them, so this may be a dumb question, but can you test for continuity? And if so, did they still not fire?
I always do test, but I'm nowhere near 300 ques, so I'm not questioning your methods at all.

I don't get offended by questions bud. Please never hesitate to make a comment or ask a question I may be able to help out with. That really what we are all here for in the first place. Bounce ideas and goodies off of each other to help refine and break new grounds in this hobby. In saying that, yes I did and always do, check for continuity. Even a match that doesn't fire will show as a complete circuit unless the wire is broken somewhere. However, if there are wires crossed, it will still show as good but the voltage sent down the line during firing due to the resistance being too low because of the touching wires.

[adultuser]

I don't get offended by questions bud. Please never hesitate to make a comment or ask a question I may be able to help out with. That really what we are all here for in the first place. Bounce ideas and goodies off of each other to help refine and break new grounds in this hobby. In saying that, yes I did and always do, check for continuity. Even a match that doesn't fire will show as a complete circuit unless the wire is broken somewhere. However, if there are wires crossed, it will still show as good but the voltage sent down the line during firing due to the resistance being too low because of the touching wires.

Gotcha, Thanks!

[esgrillo]

bazerk, makes sense, would like to see your pic. I had 2 out of about 100 fail on MJG and they showed good continuity AND resistance. I check every talon and firewire after I finished wiring the cake/effect on my multimeter for resistance to make sure I did not screw one up during install. Resistance on firewires is very consistent especially compared to talon. They all checked good and 2 did not fire. I wished I saved the 2 to see if I could see what you did. I have a bunch left over so it would be nice to get rid of the bad ones.

[displayfireworks1]

I'm trying to speed reads this thread. If there is some issue that is visible with a picture . it would be great to see it.

[Fatboy]

I know exactly what you are talking about... I've seen the same thing happen with e-match from China. But are we certain they arrived in the box crossed and that it didn't inadvertently happen while wiring it up?

[Bazerk]

To be clear, I only found one of the 10 or so that didnt fire to be crossed. Im not saying its impossible that it got twisted during installation, but we don't even pull the shrouds back when inserting them. Its not normal practice for us to twist them at all when inserting them. We put them in the hole and slap tape over them and move on.

[NorthernKYPyro]

Used about 25 Initiators this year, 4 did not fire despite having continuity. After show was done I put a 9 volt battery to one and after about 4 seconds it slowly sizzled the charge . Won't be going back to them.

[esgrillo]

Used about 25 Initiators this year, 4 did not fire despite having continuity. After show was done I put a 9 volt battery to one and after about 4 seconds it slowly sizzled the charge . Won't be going back to them.

Northern - I have been in contact with MJG. They are replacing all my product that I still have. Not that I am 100% sure that they are all good but better than nothing. They are interested in getting samples that did not fire and I did not save mine. May help all of us in the future if you could send them in by allowing them to determine what the heck happened this year. I have been working with jeffgenzel@yahoo.com

[aerialpyro]

Northern - I have been in contact with MJG. They are replacing all my product that I still have. Not that I am 100% sure that they are all good but better than nothing. They are interested in getting samples that did not fire and I did not save mine. May help all of us in the future if you could send them in by allowing them to determine what the heck happened this year. I have been working with jeffgenzel@yahoo.com

Good to hear they took care of it. I'm just curious, do these become an open circuit when fired? If so, theoretically they could have problems with being wired in series. If the fire threshold is enough different between igniters one could fire and disconnect any other one downstream. It sounds like you found some sort of physical defect though which is a different problem which would make wiring methods a subject for another thread.

[Pyro Paul]

I checked a bunch of my firewire initiators with my fluke multimeter a couple of days after they were used, of the ones I checked, they all showed continuity. All were under 100 ohms some almost down to 1 ohm. I checked some regular e-match that a friend of mine fired during his shoot, they showed .835 k ohms up to infinity. There is definitely a difference between initiators and real e-match. That explains why I still had cues with continuity on them after the initiators had been fired.

[NorthernKYPyro]

Same problem. 3 ques did not fire. two ques had a single initiator on them, other que was a Comet Rack with 2 World Class Shooting Star Reloadable Comets in a V form. I went right into the lift with the head of the Initiator, neither fired. All 3 ques showed continuity, and another 2 showed after they successfully fired.

[esgrillo]

I checked a bunch of my firewire initiators with my fluke multimeter a couple of days after they were used, of the ones I checked, they all showed continuity. All were under 100 ohms some almost down to 1 ohm. I checked some regular e-match that a friend of mine fired during his shoot, they showed .835 k ohms up to infinity. There is definitely a difference between initiators and real e-match. That explains why I still had cues with continuity on them after the initiators had been fired.

Write MJG. They should send you replacement product and it will let them understand how widespread this this. When I first wrote they said only 3 people contacted them with issues. Use jeffgenzel@yahoo.com

[PYRODAN]

Still no picture? It would be nice to see as I still have half a case of Firewires.