Magazine Question

[displayfireworks1]

My recent video showing an indoor magazines brings me a few email questions. Can someone please answer if you can? I'll post it here.
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Good evening Dave,

Loved the video on the "Job Box" indoor type 4 magazine, for me it was perfect timing. I am in the process of building my box, got job box from home depot today but now I'm having an orange book interpretation dilemma. My garage has electric in it, are the light switches and lighting considered "spark producing devices"? In which case the indoor magazine can't be in that room?


Thanks in advance,

Name Withheld

[ras1986]

They mean inside the magazine. My garage where my indoor mag is has electricity. Some big magazines have electric lighting in them and they have to follow certain rules for them.

[yoshisbar]

I will answer this... Indoor magazines have a WHOLE different set of guidelines MUCH less than a regular outdoor type 4. As I stated in the video, NO DISTANCE requirements, NO LIGHTING requirements, BUT it can't be attached to your house (though I have heard they may grant a variance for that even now). It still needs to be constructed by the type 4 magazine specs, but the job boxes meet this requirement, other that the lining should be wood. NOW open your orange book to the AFT RULING 2011-3 in the back of the book. Under the Hockey Puck locks is a section JUST for job boxes, and how the ATF has put in writing that, under the conditions set, it can be approved as an INDOOR 50LB magazine.
Believe me it is REALLY easy (in PA) , and I was surprised how quick I got it done..

[displayfireworks1]

Here is the video for those that missed it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRgwcyF2dQ

[liame]

is there any building requirements? or can i just build a small shed and put the mag (job box) inside?

[ras1986]

Word of advise. If you meet the distance requirements for and indoor magazine you also meet the requirements for an outdoor. Ask bazerk. He built a shed as his magazine. You can have 999 lbs for 150 ft of clearance. Indoor mags also require 150 ft of clearance. It's stupid. It's much nicer having 1000 pounds vs 50 for the same distance requirements. If I moved my magazine outside and attached it to a tree or something it could technically legally hold 1000 pounds.

[displayfireworks1]

ras1986 you sure about that clearance on the indoor magazine? I thought there was some ambiguity about that distance on the indoor magazine. I know that Inspector you had in Texas was not a reliable source of information in my assessment. Plus I'm still mad he hung up the phone on me. LOL
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At Liame, years back an ATF Inspector told me , they have a man that stores 50 lbs. of dynamite in what looks like a little outhouse and the magazine inside meets the requirements for indoor magazine.

[ras1986]

Dave there is not a chart in the orange book for anything less than 1000 pounds.

[ras1986]

Also, when I first built and installed my mag I originally thought it was 75 ft and placed it accordingly. I was 85 ft away from another house. Atf said it was too close and was following the wrong chart. I would love to know the truth from someone else. Anyone else interpret the rules differently?

[displayfireworks1]

We are not going to believe that inspector in Texas, he is same one that told you that you couldn't do it all, until I intervened. Then he tried a few other tricks. his credibility is meaningless when he claims to know something. He was already wrong three times. As far as the ATF Inspectors go, I give credibility to the ones in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is the highest ATF license district. My man here in the video was inspected by the Pittsburgh ATF , so I go with what they told him. I would also reference firearms dealers and black powder indoor magazines and their proximity to adjacent structures.

[Melp]

Hey Dave I have had that exact magazine for three years now. Its hard to believe I have had to renew my license already. I understand the differences in the states but I suggest that you get your magazine so that when you have your interview they can approve your magazine at the same time. The atf was glad to see that I went thru the trouble to get mine first. One of the problems the atf has is guys not putting fireworks back in a magazine after a shoot. This was a major concern for the agent that did my interview. The class 4 magazine may only hold 50 lbs but in product I can store a small professional shoot. And the big one is I don't have to drive three hours away to put leftover product in contingency storage. I believe my interview went so smoothly was I had the magazine all ready at the same time

[ras1986]

Hey Dave I have had that exact magazine for three years now. Its hard to believe I have had to renew my license already. I understand the differences in the states but I suggest that you get your magazine so that when you have your interview they can approve your magazine at the same time. The atf was glad to see that I went thru the trouble to get mine first. One of the problems the atf has is guys not putting fireworks back in a magazine after a shoot. This was a major concern for the agent that did my interview. The class 4 magazine may only hold 50 lbs but in product I can store a small professional shoot. And the big one is I don't have to drive three hours away to put leftover product in contingency storage. I believe my interview went so smoothly was I had the magazine all ready at the same time

What did your inspector say the distance had to be for your mag?

[displayfireworks1]

Melp
Were you at one time considering two of these magazines at the same location? Did they tell you they had to be in separate buildings, but could be on the same property?

[Melp]

I am lucky in that I own 3/4 of an acre so my neighbors are not that close. Because I had lots of space the agent didn't really get into distances. I thought it was 150ft but I can remember it was 3 years ago. Dave I did ask if I could have two of them but I was told no because I only have just the one barn. I was interested to hear you could try for a variance to have a type 4 in a attached garage??? my son inlaw only lives a mile away and he has a big unattached garage so he is going for his 54. and of course i gave him your video to fill out all the forms.

[aerialpyro]

So is the consensus that the indoor under 50lb magazines aren't subject to the table of distances? I have an outbuilding with a small basement/cellar that I would like to put mine in, but it is only 25ft from my house. Distances to neighbors isn't an issue. If that doesn't work then I just need to move the old smokehouse to the end of the pasture, but I would prefer not to have something above ground in that area.

Regarding multiple magazines. When I was reading the regulations it seemed to me that you could have multiple magazines in the same building, but the contents of both had to still be under 50lb. Basically each building is limited to 50lb of explosives over as many or few magazines as required. I will post the reference when I read that section again.

[Pyro Paul]

§ 555.224 Table of distances for the storage of display fireworks (except bulk salutes).

What about this table from the orange book? It states that 0 - 1000 lbs needs 150 feet between a magazine and any inhabited building/passenger railway/public highway. I know there is some discussion about indoor magazines not being subject to the table of distances but this table doesn't differentiate between indoor or outdoor mags.

[aerialpyro]

§ 555.224 Table of distances for the storage of display fireworks (except bulk salutes).

What about this table from the orange book? It states that 0 - 1000 lbs needs 150 feet between a magazine and any inhabited building/passenger railway/public highway. I know there is some discussion about indoor magazines not being subject to the table of distances but this table doesn't differentiate between indoor or outdoor mags.

To me, it looks like having a magazine closer then the table of distances to a dwelling is subject to approval of a variance.

ATF Ruling 2002-4

Apparently you can also have one actually inside a dwelling if given a variance under certain circumstances.

ATF Ruling 2002-3

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/explosive-storage-requirements-storage-rulings-special-notices-open-letters-industry#rulings

Has anyone obtained these variences? What type of considerations determine eligibility for a variance?

[Pyro Paul]

My understanding is that your own house/buildings do not count in any of that, only the distance from neighboring houses do.

[aerialpyro]

My understanding is that your own house/buildings do not count in any of that, only the distance from neighboring houses do.

Do you know if there is a reference for that interpretation?

[Pyro Paul]

look up the definition of inhabited building in the orange book... :rolleyes:

[yoshisbar]

Tables of distances apply to the outdoor storage of explosive materials ONLY! Indoor has none. As pyro paul said, house does not count, and have been told by my local office some people even get a variance to store in their basement@ If you can belive that! Your best bet is to call your local ATF office and ask them because what I say MAY NOT fly with your office out west and THEY are the ones you need to satisfy.
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And to answer your other post. WATCH MY video dave posted above, those job box mags are not that much and for the little bit of, hassle worth every penny!!

[displayfireworks1]

I believe inhabited building pretty much explains itself. A detached garage or a well build outdoor shed is NOT inhabited.

[Kenny East]

I was told i could have an indoor magazine in my house, according to my inspector... Haven't pursued it any since i don't like the smaller rating on them. Waiting to get my container to build a larger stand alone magazine

[Firefighter148]

I recently purchased a 40ft shipping container for a magazine. What are most people doing to attach the plywood to the sides? What type of screws are being used? Is it ok if the screws stick out of the outside of the container?

[displayfireworks1]

At Kenny East, if an ATF Inspector says it is OK to have the indoor magazine in your house, don't question it. I'm getting anecdotal reports of applicants getting contingency approved 250 miles away in some locations. If they tell you it is OK just go with it. I keep saying this whole process is not at the level of sophistication you envision it to be. Come to think about, how does a firearm dealer get a black-powder magazine approved in an occupied building? Most firearm retail locations are occupied at least 50% of the day.

[Kenny East]

I don't argue when i get a green light, still want to build a larger magazine some day... Looking for a house with adequate land as well as proper zoning. Got a container sitting, being used as storage for now.

[GulfPyro]

This is true.. that's the way it worked for me..

[cherrybomb1]

I had my interview with the Atf inspector a couple of weeks ago.heres what he told me about job boxes...cannot be in an attached garage,sheds are fine no distance requirements, must be wood lined or sprayed with a coat of epoxy paint,50 lbs max of explosives. You could have 2 job boxes in one shed but it's still 50lbs total.if you have 3 sheds you could have 3 job boxes...150lbs total.they count 25% total weight of cakes and 50% total weight of shells (If remember right).you have to have one color shell with salutes or it's considered high explosives...now here's what got me he said sticky match,quick match and ignitors must be stored by them selves in there own job box.the atf will inspect your mag every 3 years but in my state of Illinois it's every year.

[Kenny East]

Sticky match and some quick match are 1.4 and don't require storage... And if you use mjg initiators... Those are 1.4 as well... Also I'm pretty sure checking magazines yearly is the norm... I don't keep a magazine, yet. From what I recall it was yearly though.

[cherrybomb1]

Sticky match and some quick match are 1.4 and don't require storage... And if you use mjg initiators... Those are 1.4 as well... Also I'm pretty sure checking magazines yearly is the norm... I don't keep a magazine, yet. From what I recall it was yearly though.

I tried looking it up in my orange book real quick and can't find it.I took the Illinois Dept of natural resources class first to get there explosives license before i applied for my 54.im pretty sure they told me they come out every year if you have a magazine and the feds do it every three when you re-apply.my Atf inspector said if the IDNR approved my magazine they wouldn't even come out to inspect it they would just go with what Illinois says.I thought sticky match and quick match was all 1.3...i use the mjg initiators for my cobras though.

[Kenny East]

I've never seen 1.3 sticky match.. And I know there is 1.3 quick match as well as 1.4 quick match.

The last few bundles of quick match i bought were 1.4, 5 strand black match in a bunch of paper layers... Not the water resistant quick match. You would have to check with your distributor for exact information on what you're buying. I opted for the 1.4 so I didn't have to store it in a magazine, but places like fire art or ace pyro carry both versions.

[cherrybomb1]

I've never seen 1.3 sticky match.. And I know there is 1.3 quick match as well as 1.4 quick match.

The last few bundles of quick match i bought were 1.4, 5 strand black match in a bunch of paper layers... Not the water resistant quick match. You would have to check with your distributor for exact information on what you're buying. I opted for the 1.4 so I didn't have to store it in a magazine, but places like fire art or ace pyro carry both versions.
Thanks Kenny, I've never heard of sticky match or quick match until I got on this website...i just assumed it was 1.3 because I've never seen it on the websites where I buy my fuse from.

[age2eod]

I think that table is for 1.3G display fireworks, but when you move up to 1.1 High Explosives, I think table 218, then it specifies all the way down to 0 - 5 lbs.

[age2eod]

Dave there is not a chart in the orange book for anything less than 1000 pounds.

I think that table is for 1.3G display fireworks, but when you move up to 1.1 High Explosives, I think table 218, then it specifies all the way down to 0 - 5 lbs.