When is it okay to e-match your cakes??

[Rick_In_Tampa]

This is going to be my first year using the Cobra system and firewire initiators. My question is, when is it okay to "squib" the cakes??

Normally I have all the cakes glued down to the boards and I wire them with visco and then wait for the big day. Since I'm a one man show, I need to get a head start, and this worked.

I know initiators are not ATF regulated like e-match, but they're a tad more volatile (I would think) than visco, and they get jammed right into the lift charge. So I don't know that I'm comfortable squibbing 124 cakes prior to the 4th and leaving them sit stacked up on boards in my garage.

Am I overthinking it? Would it be okay? Or should I wait until I get the boards out to their shooting position to sqib them? How does everyone else do it??

[ilovecrackle]

This should be interesting to see others suggestion on this. lol
Your gonna get "what I do" and "what is the safest" answers because Iv seen this discussion come up quite a bit. lol

Here is my 2 cents for what its worth.
Whatever you choose to do, leave the shroud on the initiator when you insert into the lift. After that, I would tape the wire in a way where if it gets snagged on something or accidentally pulled on, there won't be any movement of the shroud/match head inside the lift.

Am I over thinking this or being overly too careful? Probably to some people, yes. But if there is one extra little step or two I can do to avoid a potential accident then I would rather do so then be sorry later.
There is already a certain degree of danger in our hobby as it is. No need to add to it with little things that could be avoided. :cool:

Now for me personally, would I pre-match cakes and shells and store them in my shed/barn or garage?
I do this all the time with talons and have stored them like this for Months at a time.
But if i used e-match or Initiators, I would not. That's just me though. :)

[Playingwithfire85]

As ilovecrackle said you will get varying answers. I suggest following his last paragraph and also know that if you plan on putting your fireworks inside a vehicle and moving them to a shoot location then do NOT match them until you're onsite and the day or firing. If I am firing in my backyard I will ematch them and store them in my garage for the week before but I also have a more controlled environment as I know that I am the only person who enters my garage and the precautions I take.

[FlyingDutchman]

This past year I poked (brass pokie) all my cakes and the covered the openings with masking tape weeks before my shoot. Then the day of the show I just pushed the igniter thru the tape, nice and easy.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like the consensus is do NOT pre-wire the cakes. I do load all my boards into a pickup and drive them over to the retention pond the day of the shoot. The retention pond is only 4 houses down, but they still get driven down. So it looks like I'll probably take FD's advice and poke the cakes and wire them in place on the 4th. Gonna be a long day!

[displayfireworks1]

Rick slow down for a minute, you moving great, but moving too quick. Since you new into this electrical firing and electric match you should not be debating the pre-show setup dilemma . You need to get the feel of this first. Last I tested the Firewire Initiators (don't say igniter) are sensitive to shock and friction. My intuition is telling me new enthusiast do day before pre-show setup in their house. Its too risky for you to electric match the day before at this point in your experience level. Glue your cakes down the night before, then get up early the day of the shoot, be sure you are outside and can see the sky above you, then place your electric match and number your product by module and number on rail. When you start to place your electric match into the product , keep a scenario in your mind that says, what would I do if this product ignites right now. Do you have a place to run , will it ignite other product, this sort of thing.
Get up early, place the electric match in that AM on shoot day. Between now and July 4th you need to experiment with your firing system. Do some easy stuff for entertainment and practice.

[ilovecrackle]

When you start to place your electric match into the product , keep a scenario in your mind that says, what would I do if this product ignites right now. Do you have a place to run , will it ignite other product, this sort of thing.

To add to this, is there anything over the top of the cake/tube (head, hand, fingers, etc) I may lose or get seriously injured if the cake accidentally fired while inserting the initiator.


Rick, another thing that can help speed up the process is strip the ends of your wires ahead of time so you don't have to do that out in the field.
6-7 years ago when i first got into electric firing, my first e-fired show, I had everything pre matched with talons but didn't think about stripping the ends ahead of time as well. Needless to say, it took a VERY long time stripping all the ends out in the field.
Don't be like the crackle-man. Strip those wires ahead of time! :cool:

[cptnding]

Rick,
I'm glad you posted this question. I am also new to the Cobra system (bought during the Black Friday sale) and Firewire. I used it NYE and was VERY impressed with how well it worked. I'm lucky enough to live where I can shoot in my backyard anytime I want and have shot several times since on a small scale. You are gonna love that Cobra. I have been using one fuse methods for a long time and a couple of years ago started combing one fuse setups in sections with talons and a cheap Chinese remote firing system. The Cobra is fantastic.
I've always taken safety issues seriously. Most important to me is setback. Second most important is not burning down my house.
Like you, I have always bundled and fused up my cakes and racks, stored them in the garage, and moved them out the day of the show.
Why is matching the cakes with Firewire considered much more dangerous than having them chain fused with visco and/or talons? Why would transporting cakes matched with Firewire be significantly more dangerous than visco?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick slow down for a minute, you moving great, but moving too quick. Get up early, place the electric match in that AM on shoot day. Between now and July 4th you need to experiment with your firing system. Do some easy stuff for entertainment and practice.

Dave I appreciate the input. Just gathering information at this point. Trust me, I have no intention of burning down my house or anyone's house. That's why I'm asking these questions. You guys have validated my suspicions and assumptions and believe me, I'm taking notes! You guys won't be reading about me on the evening news. At least not for this! Lol.

I played with a few initiators today and got the feel of the equipment. I already built the script in Show Creator for my show on the 4th. So I'm going to load it up and practice running it just to make sure I understand what's happening. I'm also going to make a few short scripts and run those too just to get practice loading and removing scripts. So far so good!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick, another thing that can help speed up the process is strip the ends of your wires ahead of time so you don't have to do that out in the field.
6-7 years ago when i first got into electric firing, my first e-fired show, I had everything pre matched with talons but didn't think about stripping the ends ahead of time as well. Needless to say, it took a VERY long time stripping all the ends out in the field. Don't be like the crackle-man. Strip those wires ahead of time! :cool:

Lol... Thanks Crackle man! Good call there. I'm using the MJG initiators they come pre-stripped with a little plastic covering that just pops off. So I think we're good there. I do have some scab wire on the way and that's going to have to be cut and stripped. I'm going to have the entire show layout done in Visio long before the 4th. So I'll know how long the scab runs will need to be and I can pre-cut and strip those runs before I get out to the field. That's my plan anyway!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick,
I'm glad you posted this question. I am also new to the Cobra system (bought during the Black Friday sale) and Firewire. I used it NYE and was VERY impressed with how well it worked.

cptnding - I'm very excited about using the Cobra! Already looking forward to getting the audiobox for my 2018 show! Baby steps. Visco is not as susceptible to igniting due to friction or jolting as e-match (and initiators). The visco to visco connection is also outside of the cake and not directly into the lift charge like the initiator. So a visco to visco setup would be safer to transport than a initiator setup, as I suspected. So I will be getting up at the ass-crack of dawn on July 4th to start wiring cakes!! Hopefully the rain cooperates. Already have lots of tarps on the buy list too!!

[displayfireworks1]

At cptnding the Firewire is sensitive to shock and friction (same as regulated electric match). If you scrap it like a match or hit with for example a hammer it can go off. Once a product is matched it adds a little more risk to the product. Now if it is matched and transported the risk increases even further. I am not saying not to do it, some professional companies electric match display shells and put them all in a box and transport them to the shoot site.
I just had a memory flash from the past. When I first started working pro shows as a helper, we had to shoot off of a building in the city. Following the direction of the lead shooter, we placed electric match into around 15 large 1.3 display cakes. Now with the cakes matched, we load all of them stacked on top of each other into a service elevator and then about 4 of us jam into the elevator to ride to the top of the building. On the way up in the elevator I was thinking why the hell did he tell is to match the cakes and then transport them in the elevator. We could have easily waited until we got to the top of the building and then placed the match.

[ilovecrackle]

Why is matching the cakes with Firewire considered much more dangerous than having them chain fused with visco and/or talons? Why would transporting cakes matched with Firewire be significantly more dangerous than visco?

Like already mentioned, the firewire initiators and regular ematch are more sensitive to friction and shock. You should always leave the shroud on when inserting them into the lift for an extra layer of protection. When your transporting them by vehicle or some other form of transportation, things are going to be moving around. Movement could possible cause some friction within the lift and well, you get the idea. :)
Visco and talons are not sensitive to friction and shock like the firewire initiators/ematch.

How often does a pre-ignition happen like that by transporting cakes already pre-matched with firewire initiators or ematch? I couldn't tell you. But when you have something that is already more sensitive to friction and shock to begin with already sitting in the lift, why would you take a chance? That's just the way i look at it. :)
But people will do what they want. I know of people that transport them pre-matched all the time and i know people that would never do it in a million years. lol

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Rick, another thing that can help speed up the process is strip the ends of your wires ahead of time so you don't have to do that out in the field.
Crackle--this is a good time saving point---BUT after you do strip the ends of the initiator [or ematch] you must twist them back together [shunt] to eliminate the possibility of a static discharge from setting off the device. An important safety point.

[ilovecrackle]

Crackle--this is a good time saving point---BUT after you do strip the ends of the initiator [or ematch] you must twist them back together [shunt] to eliminate the possibility of a static discharge from setting off the device. An important safety point.

That's good to know Joe. i never thought of that.
Would this apply to talons as well? Or just the initiators and ematch?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

That's good to know Joe. i never thought of that.
Would this apply to talons as well? Or just the initiators and ematch?

Only the Ematches and Initiators. The Talons use a very fine piece of nichrome wire that heats up when current is applied to it [like a baby toaster!]. That is why they take 1-2 seconds to go off. They do NOT need to be shunted.

[ilovecrackle]

Only the Ematches and Initiators. The Talons use a very fine piece of nichrome wire that heats up when current is applied to it [like a baby toaster!]. That is why they take 1-2 seconds to go off. They do NOT need to be shunted.

That's what I figured about the talons but wanted to make sure. Thanks for the info and conformation Joe.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Crackle--this is a good time saving point---BUT after you do strip the ends of the initiator [or ematch] you must twist them back together [shunt] to eliminate the possibility of a static discharge from setting off the device. An important safety point.

Has anyone ever tried to set off an e-match via static electricity? That would probably be a really good, eye opening video for some folks.

[Northern Sky]

I would recommend shunts for all electrical connections. Several shows suffer from premature firing during a storm at PGI last year. That was an eye opener to all those near the display field.