Old M-80 pictures

[displayfireworks1]

I am soon going to light the old silver M-80 given to me at the 2016 PGI convention. I want to post some pictures of it to document it before it is gone. I find the end plugs interesting and believe I have the formula for making them from some of my old documentation. i am hoping Pyrojoe can comment about the end plug and pink color.
.
you will see it in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDyjkqWy8_I
.
Old end plug formula. not sure if it is the same .
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1757&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1758&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1759&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1760&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1761&stc=1

[displayfireworks1]

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1762&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1763&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1764&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1765&stc=1

The second cartridge is from my video where I found the old M-80 machine frozen in time

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I'm drawing a blank on the pink end plugs Dave. All the ones I remember from the 50's & 60's were grey or dull white--like a plaster compound of sorts. In the formula you have for the end plugs--both Calcium Carbonate & Zinc Oxide are white & the binder==the Sodium Silicate-aka "waterglass" is clear when made into solution so the end plug you would come out with would be a light color.
I'd add a piece of visco to that baby before you light it--looks like the seal around the fuse is deteriorated.....and put your running shoes on. LOL!!!
The pink end cap material is interesting--it looks like it is breaking down from age. Really not sure.
Maybe countryboy7978 has some input???

[countryboy7978]

While I can only speculate that the pink color came from the same dye used in making cherry bombs, and was probably added only to distinguish the salute from other manufacturers, I do know that the cracker is not a true M80. These were called Bull Dogs, Silver Tube Salute, or simply Silver Salute. They were made by several companies all which used the same paper tube with the spiral warning. The ID of that tube should be 1/2" while a true M80 was 9/16". This meant that an M80 could be charged with a bit more powder. The original M80 was tan and only had the year of manufacture on it. A buddy of mine lit one at this years PGI. The ends were sealed with paper plugs per military specs. The silver salutes and later the civilian M80 was sealed with the carbonate plugs over a paper disk. That salute should still sing nice for you. The unlabeled silver tube was likely a later item from the 70s/80s when these were being bootlegged by legitimate fireworks manufacturers. It appears the newer tube is a 9/16" ID.

[displayfireworks1]

Here is that brown M-80 you are referencing in one of my videos. Go to 8:28 in this video and see one from 1955.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6-IdqfKstI

[countryboy7978]

Here is that brown M-80 you are referencing in one of my videos. Go to 8:28 in this video and see one from 1955.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6-IdqfKstI

That's my buddy Mike!! I didn't know he did an interview with you. Pretty cool. He's a really good guy. That M80 was really loud when it went off.

[countryboy7978]

The salute would likely be made by Kent now that I see the close up of the fuse sealant. The same sealant was used on Kent Cherry Salutes. It contains a bit of powdered aluminum to give it the silver color.

[displayfireworks1]

I am going to see if I can bring in thechemist45 for a consultation on the origins of this firecracker. I am also contemplating taking it apart instead of lighting it, just to see how it is made. Unsure what to do?

[thechemist45]

I am soon going to light the old silver M-80 given to me at the 2016 PGI convention. I want to post some pictures of it to document it before it is gone. I find the end plugs interesting and believe I have the formula for making them from some of my old documentation. i am hoping Pyrojoe can comment about the end plug and pink color.
.
you will see it in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDyjkqWy8_I
.
Old end plug formula. not sure if it is the same .
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1757&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1758&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1759&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1760&stc=1
.
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1761&stc=1 I have looked at all the vids. And All of those salutes are reproductions! And If you remember back in the day? Dont you remember that the fuse were never that long. And the salutes never had a Pyrotechnic blob of composition where the fuse goes in. And Do you ever remember such long and stiff laqured fuses That even when new They never looked that good. Let alone 57 years later. And some have r/w/b fuse as well as green and red.

[countryboy7978]

Chemist45,

While I know all about the reproductions (as well as some of the individuals tainting the market with them), I must respectfully disagree with you that the silver salute pictured above appears to be a fake. The visco fuses made years ago were shiny and installed as lengthy as the manufacturer wanted to. I would expect that the manufacturers would want their customers to keep their fingers attached in order to increase the chance of repeat business. The older American-made visco fuse used a darker green laquer than the reproduction "american" visco sold today in the three colors your mention. The fuse sold today is 3/32" diameter and the original fuse was 1/8". Kent Manufacturing did in fact use an aluminum slurry to seal the fuses from leakage on all of their firecrackers, and aerial salute tubes. The reproductions also feature poorly fitting paper end plugs in an effort to make them look genuine. The one above uses a silicate/carbonate slurry over a paper disk, and shows the signs of age through the bleeding through of the pink dye, as well as the brittle plug material. The M-80 in the Kraft tube from the video above is absolutely NOT a reproduction. I know exactly where it came from and it was taken from a military surplus box of 50, wax sealed and all. I saw it with my own eyes. The tan-tubed reproductions that are floating around Ebay and other collector's markets do not look identical to the one shown in the PGI interview above. The fonts are different, and appear to be rubber-stamped vs printed, and the holes are pre-drilled rather than punched during manufacture like a genuine US Military contracted salute.

[displayfireworks1]

Is the M-80 in my video in Post #1 at 26 seconds a reproduction? the more I look at it , it looks like white Elmers glue and it also appears very sloppy made. The Chemist45 told me the 1955 military grade one looked original.

[countryboy7978]

Is the M-80 in my video in Post #1 at 26 seconds a reproduction? the more I look at it , it looks like white Elmers glue and it also appears very sloppy made. The Chemist45 told me the 1955 military grade one looked original.

The silver salute you picked up does not appear to be a fake. The shiny glue was likely silicate syrup used to seal the ends. It does appear sloppy but I'm sure many of them were made that way. I'll see if I can find some fake pictures so you know what I'm talking about.

[displayfireworks1]

Is that slurry mix to seal the fuse to the case made of aluminum and acetone? Something else? Anyone know?

[countryboy7978]

Is that slurry mix to seal the fuse to the case made of aluminum and acetone? Something else? Anyone know?

It's most likely nitrocellulose laquer and aluminum powder. Acetone is a solvent and simply evaporates leaving the hardened resin. NC laquer and black powder is was also common although it's much easier to ignite by a stray ember.

[RalphieJ]

I find this thread both amusing and also very informative. Dave, the silver tube is not an M-80. It's what we called here in NY "ashcans" and along with their distant cousin, cherry bombs, were the most popular cracker of it's time. The Ashcans that we got here were made in Vineland or Maryland, New Jersey Fireworks or Kent Fireworks. Equal in report. The silver tube ashcans originally came with calcium carbonate ends, later just paper plugs, no difference in sound. Some fuses were glued with the same mix as cherry bombs, while others were more like a clear "airplane" glue. Now, true M-80's were another story. Without having to dig out my only one left, it's slightly larger than the ashcan. Calcium carbonate ends, fuse glued with clear. Red with M-80 and 'DO NOT HOLD IN HAND printed once on it's spiral-wound side. Others I've had in the past had that same pink ends on your ashcan and for one year, clear red plastic plugs with a red visco fuse. I'm only talking legals here, made before the CPS ban. And believe you me, they REALLY let go. Yours, if my memory serves me, look like the real deal. Please, promise me, DO NOT DISSECT THAT PRECIOUS THING and fire it off like you first thought of doing. Wish I was there to hear it............

[displayfireworks1]

I am probably going to light off , then another part of me wants to open it up. I will have it on video whatever direction we go. This way we can all see what it is about. For now I will just do nothing.
Someone told me it is near impossible to get a tube maker to make a tube that has that writing on it.

[countryboy7978]

While I don't know for sure I'll make a conclusion that most paper tube makers will reject any orders that can be proven to be used for fireworks. In the East Benton accident when the Feds investigated everyone involved, they actually went after the suppliers of the tubes because they knew what they were being used for.

[displayfireworks1]

You mean the one in Tennessee back in the 80's, Benton Tennessee. I did a review of that accident on video. I took that video off of public viewing because the families sent me a email requesting I do so.
An ATF Inspector told me when they do inspections on people with fireworks manufacturing license they look for colored tubes laying around.

[countryboy7978]

http://m.openjurist.org/825/f2d/412/united-states-v-86-5822-86-5980-86-5992

Some cool info on the case. And yes they went after the tube guy.

[countryboy7978]

A name some of you may recognize is John Miller Sr. of Millers Fireworks. His firm made a bulk of the American salutes when they were legal, took advantage of the in-process exemption through the 1960s as pest control firecrackers. He played a part in the bootleg industry for decades after. I've met many icons in the fireworks industry but I would have liked to have a beer with John Miller and hear the stories.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

This thread has turned out to be quite informative.
I wish I would have paid more attention to the construction of the silver salutes, ash cans, cherry bombs back in the 60's. Back then all I was concerned about was lighting the fuses!!!
I do recall that the silver salutes were quite common here in PA--but not so with the cherry bombs--they were few and far between.

[displayfireworks1]

At Cowboy7978
We talked about some of this in another thread. Here is a document I want to find time to read. It is from 1974 You can read all about M-80's , ship shows , using teeagers to help light off professional fireworks , bootleg activity etc. I keep saying I want to print it and read little each night before bed. It is 185 pages long.
link
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/15128NCJRS.pdf
.
You mentioned the Millers Fireworks and the stories. I actually heard a few.
-One person (unnamed) currently in the legal fireworks business told me. Back in the 70's , he would drive there almost daily when the season started, get there early and park and sleep in the car. When the M-80's were made they would come out and knock on the window to wake him up and start loading the car. The car was so full and the glue so fresh, he said he had to open the windows of the car to get air on the way home. Once at the house he had the rooms of the house stacked with M-80's
- Another story was from unnamed person said the old man Miller died basically penniless, he was living in an old trailer on the property with no electricity.
-I knew one of the people involved in the Benton Tennessee incident. Not at the time but later, he told me Dan Webb would call him and plead for him to purchase some of the M-80's they were making. He said that while he was buying them for distribution, there were times he did not want them. Dan Webb would convince him to buy more because they were just poor folk that needed the money. When the Webb Bait Farm exploded, Dan Webb told on everyone. My unnamed person accepted a plea deal and did 6 months in a Tennessee prison. He told me while in prison he obtained his GED because he never finished high school.
.
I had the Webb Bait Farm Tennessee video posted on youtube. I received a email from some of the family involved in the tragedy requesting I remove my video. I removed it from public viewing , it can still be viewed in unlisted form. I'll post it here for those that have not seen it. I made this video in 2009. I find the event fascinating since I knew one of the players.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxJg_GwreU
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0A5Jk8KeOw

[countryboy7978]

When I was little I remember by grandparents telling me about this accident and why fireworks were so dangerous. A while back I accidentally came upon the Beyond the Body Farm story and it brought back memories of the story. I watched your video which is very interesting. There was a deadly fireworks factory explosion in March 1973 not far from where I grew up. I was years from being born but I also heard the story from old neighbors who were kids themselves at the time. Based on everything I've read and people I've talked to, the M80 trade was centered around quite a small number of players who controlled production and distribution throughout the whole country. You don't realize how small of a world it is sometimes.

[countryboy7978]

I just clicked on your link and have read that document. It talks about the Melrose incident which happened about 3 miles from where I grew up. I also had the pleasure to meet and chat with Tom S. His product was widespread in the Chicagoland area and with most mail order fireworks vendors in the 1980s. The last item he produced other than fuse was that PCR2000 firecracker that is shown in your video from PGI. It was a weaker version of a seal control salute distributed by the DNR in certain areas of the country.

[displayfireworks1]

He took a hard hit for the PCR 2000.
https://www.cpsc.gov/~/link/2d3bde5253a64d36910501c0d5a31cdd.pdf
.
People just love those ground base salutes.

[countryboy7978]

He took a hard hit for the PCR 2000.
https://www.cpsc.gov/~/link/2d3bde5253a64d36910501c0d5a31cdd.pdf
.
People just love those ground base salutes.

http://m.yankton.net/news/article_c13d601c-1b1f-5d77-9305-62ae54d97ec8.html?mode=jqm

Quarter sticks sure have lost their power it seems.

[NWPA]

I May be getting senile, but all the silver tube salutes I had, seems to me, had paper end caps. Bought them by the case. At one rime the dealer wanted to sell me a case of chinese knock offs. Bulk packed, paper fuses, loose powder everywhere. Still remember looking in the case after he removed the lid,all the salutes lined up, side by side. Just mentioning that as there are always variations when it comes to poplular items.

,

[countryboy7978]

The earlier silver salutes used paper plugs. The slurry plugs were later as they found them easier to make.

How long ago did you see these paper fused knockoffs? I'm curious as to what they looked like. Paper fuse would be a very dangerous situation in any salute that could remove fingers. I do know that Millers used to sell "legal" class C M80s with a paper cracker inside the tube. The fuse came out of the end as it was the fuse from the paper cracker. They were sold in paper bags with a make shift label.

[NWPA]

Early 60s, or there abouts. The knock offs were a silver tube,paper end caps, with fuse [paper] coming out the middle. No marking on tube,and seemed a little fatter and heavier as I recall. On picking a couple up, my hand was left left with a coating of flash. Even then, being the risk taker I was, they seemed they would be incredably dangerous. The guy showing me these by the way had a cigar in his mouth,stating I should'nt be smoking in here. Hmmn. For your info, this was Ohio,at a place then known as West Salem Fireworks. I was a good customer and he treated me well. 9", 12", 15" salutes, sure, how many you want. Those are glorious pyro memories for me.Those days of anything goes are never again to be repeated. Nor would I want to.

[Bgreen]

Hey I'm Bailey I'm new to the form. For some reason I thought I've seen Kent silver salutes with pink ends before.? Idont know why I thought this but I could of sworn I've seen them in a old catalog scan pic online some where. Any one know the pic I'm talking about? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

[displayfireworks1]

Not sure if you ever saw my M-80 machine video. At 20:32 in the video, you can see the pink colored paper.
.

https://youtu.be/RfaFYhBB-RU?t=1232

[Bgreen]

Not sure if you ever saw my M-80 machine video. At 20:32 in the video, you can see the pink colored paper.
.

https://youtu.be/RfaFYhBB-RU?t=1232

Perhaps that is what I'm thinking of then. Ik those reproduction tubes have been floating around for the last year and half or so.

[RalphieJ]

Hey I'm Bailey I'm new to the form. For some reason I thought I've seen Kent silver salutes with pink ends before.? Idont know why I thought this but I could of sworn I've seen them in a old catalog scan pic online some where. Any one know the pic I'm talking about? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I remember seeing silver salutes AKA "ashcans" and "hammerheads") with pink silicate ends, but I'm not sure if they were made by Kent. I do know that New Jersey Fireworks in Vineland NJ used craft paper ends because the year they were banned by the CPSC (1966) I purchased a half-gross each (out of the trunk of a Lincoln Town car) of New Jersey cherry bombs and silver salutes ($10 total for both!), which had the tan paper ends, not red paper. I still have the the original carton from the cherry bombs, but have no idea what happened to the salute box............

[Bgreen]

Does any one know the history of how the silver salute came to be? Like who invented it? Original formula? Did the formula vary from the original m80s? Or did the formulas just come down to the manufacture at the time? Who got the patten if there was one? Who invented it? Did they make it to compete with the m80?