displayfireworks1 quick update

[displayfireworks1]

I taught a class today at Wholesale Fireworks in Hubbard Ohio. The class was about getting an ATF Fireworks license and wireless fireworks firing systems. Coincidentally while I was there the delivery of sample Shogun Fireworks arrived and I picked them up. Look for these Shogun 2017 sample fireworks in a future video. Special thanks to Ray at Wholesale Fireworks for hosting the event. 25 fireworks enthusiast were in attendance. Within the next year I am hoping to add them to the ever growing list of advanced fireworks enthusiast.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBIQIISJOs
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If you are interested in obtaining an ATF Fireworks and need my help, consider purchasing my ATF/DVD/Application package.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/shopping.php

[displayfireworks1]

Here is the special edition T-Shirt wfboom gave everyone at the class . I also covered wireless fireworks firing systems, fusing and electrical firing. Ray also gave a tour of the facility and lunch.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1639&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1640&stc=1

[liame]

Wish i could have attended but life got in the way. i like that shirt.

[Wholesale Fireworks]

Dave
Thank you again for taking the time to do this for us. We have had great feedback from this event and everyone we spoke with said they got exactly what they wanted from the session. Some were there for the Type 54 and some were there for the firing system instruction. We had a big group on the tour and had some great questions from that group. We hope things work out so we can do this again next year.

[displayfireworks1]

Thanks Ray. I heard from one of the guys in the class, he told me he got his fingerprints today. A day after the class and he is moving right along.I never realized you had 54 on those shirts until I got it home and looked. LOL

[Pyro@Mach13]

Lookign forward to checking out what the new product is Dave.... would love to see the boom pick up some single shot "pro" product! also strobes, flame pots and gerbs!

[Wildwood]

I'd like to give a great big THANKS to Dave and Ray for taking the time to put that class together.
On January 24 I received my ATF license.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I'd like to give a great big THANKS to Dave and Ray for taking the time to put that class together.
On January 24 I received my ATF license.

Congrats on your "54" Wildwood---and welcome to the Forum!

[displayfireworks1]

At Wildwood, congratulations on receiving your ATF and thank you for the shoutout. You did it all in less than 70 days after I taught the class at wfboom. I think the ATF officials in Ohio are going to need to hire more Inspectors. LOL
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Around 5 years ago that old Pyro U gang kept preaching you could not get an ATF Fireworks License in the state of Ohio because of some moriturum on explosive storage in Ohio and needing a state exhibitors license. I kept saying it was all a fallacy. Here we are 5 years later and the number of privately held ATF license users of display fireworks in Ohio keeps growing. They said the same thing about the State of New York, again a fallacy. The entire process in both of those states is a lot smoother thanks to those early on enthusiast that held firm in those states and believed what I told them. Next stop Texas, I am expecting to hear my second good news from that state soon.
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http://www.myonlinemaps.com/images/ohio-map.gif

[Northern Sky]

At Wildwood, congratulations on receiving your ATF and thank you for the shoutout. You did it all in less than 70 days after I taught the class at wfboom. I think the ATF officials in Ohio are going to need to hire more Inspectors. LOL
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Around 5 years ago that old Pyro U gang kept preaching you could not get an ATF Fireworks License in the state of Ohio because of some moriturum on explosive storage in Ohio and needing a state exhibitors license. I kept saying it was all a fallacy. Here we are 5 years later and the number of privately held ATF license users of display fireworks in Ohio keeps growing. They said the same thing about the State of New York, again a fallacy. The entire process in both of those states is a lot smoother thanks to those early on enthusiast that held firm in those states and believed what I told them. Next stop Texas, I am expecting to hear my second good news from that state soon.
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http://www.myonlinemaps.com/images/ohio-map.gif

I will never understand why you keep bringing up your promotion of illegal discharge of fireworks in Ohio and New York. It illegal to discharge without a lead exhibitors license and permit in OHIO. I can assure you that the authorities will be happy to make life a living hell if they want to.

It isn't that difficult to enjoy this hobby legally. Why risk a fellony, fine and evening news unnecessarily.

I will never understand your reasoning on this. Is selling an "ATF" DVD more important than one of us doing jail time?

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I will never understand why you keep bringing up your promotion of illegal discharge of fireworks in Ohio and New York.

North - I guess I'm not following you on this one. As I understand the process you need the ATF 54 in order to buy the 1.3G items. So without that, there's no point in even getting a lead exhibitors license and permit in Ohio. So as best I can tell, the three things you're talking about are mutually exclusive from one another. That being the case, there's no reason to believe that if a person got the 54, they wouldn't also get the lead exhibitors license and permit that's required to make them legal in Ohio. Yes? So how would the promotion of one activity imply the promotion of illegal activity with regard to the lead exhibitors license and permit?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, it's a sincere question. What am I missing?

[Northern Sky]

North - I guess I'm not following you on this one. As I understand the process you need the ATF 54 in order to buy the 1.3G items.CORRECT So without that, there's no point in even getting a lead exhibitors license and permit in Ohio. Why not, an exibitors license and permit is needed to for 1.4 also.So as best I can tell, the three things you're talking about are mutually exclusive from one another.That being the case, Not the case there's no reason to believe that if a person got the 54, they wouldn't also get the lead exhibitors license and permit that's required to make them legal in Ohio. Yes? No, as you stated, they are mutually exclusive. You are required to take and pass a test on 1126 and 1123 and have a established lead sign off on your application.So how would the promotion of one activity imply the promotion of illegal activity with regard to the lead exhibitors license and permit? Because there is NEVER suggestion as to local or state requirements made. Just buy my DVD.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, it's a sincere question. What am I missing?

I think I covered your questions.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I think I covered your questions.

So if I understand your objection correctly, you don't have an issue with the promotion of people getting their ATF 54, you just think the promotion of abiding by local regulations should be part of the deal too, yes?

[PYRODAN]

Lex iniqua lex non est

[displayfireworks1]

At Northern Sky, i am not leading these enthusiast into legal problems, I helping them advance deeper and further into advanced pyrotechnic. Possession of 1.3 explosive material with an ATF license is legal. Many of these state rulings may or may not be applicable to non-commerce. Over the years I have been doing this I have no record of a privately held ATF license holder being cited for non compliance with state shooter requirement in a non-commerce setting.
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Speaking of Ohio again, they control what brand of 1.3 fireworks are transported and shot in their state based on if you paid them the license fee. The can not control a non-commercial use, if an enthusiast wants to drive to Kellners Fireworks and pick up 1.3 product and drive it back to Ohio and shoot it for his own enjoyment and not for profit, Ohio can not tell him what to shoot. Again I have no record of a citation of a privately held ATF license holder enforced.
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I am pushing the advancement of the fireworks enthusiast. I saw other people try to do and I always felt they perceived it wrong, They had the steps backwards or taught long boring classes at the PGI conventions that just caused frustration and failure. I now have an established record of success in the industry. I understand it may make some people uncomfortable. At the other end it pleases many people. People in business recognize it and embrace it.
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They are times in certain areas we even have to argue with the ATF about how all of this works. This is why i tell enthusiast. You do not voluntarily withdraw the application. If I think they have what is required we push forward and usually win when the application escalates. The subsequent ones in that area become easier after that. I am working hard to take the hobby and the person to a new level. Most of them make it further than I ever imagined.

[Northern Sky]

Well you can now updated you statistics. I know if there people who were arrested in Ohio for discharging fireworks in Ohio. All were fined and lost product. One had 1.3G racks destroyed and now has a felony on his record. All three had Ohio assistant lead licenses but not a lead nor were the displays permitted.

So go ahead and sell your ATF packages all you want and profit from uneducated people while knowing full well that they run the risk of prosecution.

One of the forementioned individuals bought your ATF package based on your information. He was the one busted with only 1.4 as it was being brought by someone else that hadn't arrived yet.

He spoke to you about it and you blocked his account and ignored his emails. Hey you weren't to blame. You did nothing illegal.

[PyroMike79]

To Northern Sky. Not to be rude myself but nearly every one of your posts seems to indicate a strong dislike for Dave and what he is doing with this site. If you have so much antipathy for him I am at a loss as to why you would be here. Again, not trying to be rude, just honestly curious what the problem is.

[Northern Sky]

Actually, I like Dave. I grew up in da burgh so I feel like I have known him forever. Believe it or not his was the first site I frequented. I think I watched every one of his videos early on. I am one of those "I'm surprised to see how far they have grown guys.". We have met several times and worked the field together.

Through this fireworks obsession I have met some of my closest friends whom I actually have walked through fire for, driven many thousands of miles to be with and have shared some of the best times of my life with. My son is getting married this summer and several of those guys will travel several hours to bust their ass to make sure everything is perfect for his first married night.

Now imagine with all I've shared, one of those guys runs into trouble how I would feel weather it is an accident or enforcement?

It's easy to walk away when there is no face to put with a handle. I know these peoples spouses, kids and parents. This Saturday is a club meeting of which I am a VP of, a few hours away to have dinner with and just shoot the bull. Several of those people I met here.
Please understand where I am coming from.
As you read my "negative" posts I hope you see concern for friends past and present not just a guy that comes here to pick fights or have people pat my back. That just isn't me.

[displayfireworks1]

At Northern Sky, take a lesson from Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley, when someone tells you a story about an event, always investigate the credibility of the event before you profess it to be true and run with it. Problem is when the story sounds like it will justify a belive you have, you may falsely give it credibility. I suspect this is that old Paulie Walnuts , Deez Nuts or whatever the fu## his name is from Ohio. This has nothing to do with an ATF license. Since he wants to go public with his story, PM me his name and city in Ohio. I'll do what you did not do and Al Sharpton did not do, I'll investigate and tell you exactly what happened. I believe I already know but I'll find out for sure.
The other individuals you mentioned with the State of Ohio Assistant Lead Shooter certificates, this is a good example of no matter how many STATE (any state) shooter certifications you have , you can not possess 1.3 product on your own. You still need a federal ATF User of Display Fireworks license. If you work for a professional fireworks company and have a ATF Employee Possessor clearance you can not possess 1.3 product outside of your course of employment with the company. You need your own separate ATF license. That whole gang you hang with made that guy your poster boy for reasons not to get an ATF license. Someone give me his name and city. Lets find out what really happened.

[Northern Sky]

At Northern Sky, take a lesson from Al Sharpton.

Maybe you could take lesson from President Trump and step up to the plate since you know all things pyro and take a trip to Cincinnati and take the state license test, go through the process and get an Ohio lead. It's only a couple of hours away. How hard can it be? It's right in your backyard. Maybe do that and stop by Lynch. It's a right off since you are in a fireworks related business.

Now that would give credibly. I'll be the first to congratulate you.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

and profit from uneducated people while knowing full well that they run the risk of prosecution.

North - I'm totally tracking where you're coming from here, but with respect, I think you're placing the onus on the wrong person. IMHO, it's not the job of the car salesman to educate me about the laws of the road. It's his job to sell me the car. It's MY responsibility to learn the rules and laws that dictate what I can and cannot do with it once I have it.

I'll be honest. It would be a great idea in my opinion for Dave to include a disclaimer with his video package; IN BIG BOLD BRIGHT LETTERS; telling the purchaser that - "The videos and information contained herein are designed to aid the purchaser with obtaining his/her ATF54 license so that he/she may PURCHASE professional grade 1.3G fireworks. However, the ATF54 license holder is ultimately responsible for investigating, understanding, and complying with any and all local regulations and permitting requirements in their state and/or local jurisdiction related to the use of ANY class of fireworks. Failure to do so may result in serious legal consequences." Something to that affect.

Having said that.... At the end of the day, it's incumbent on the license holder, and ONLY the license holder, to get educated in order to avoid any legal consequences.

[displayfireworks1]

I don't know if I can pass that Ohio test. Give me a test question, let me see if I can answer it. LOL If I get that certificate, what the hell am I going to do with it? Zambelli will want me to shoot shows in Ohio. I have done displays in Ohio. Toledo Ohio, arguing with prostitutes because we disrupted their business along the river at the park when we set the show up. We almost had to call the police. Too many fireman try to tell you what to do in Ohio. I don't like it.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

... arguing with prostitutes because we disrupted their business along the river at the park when we set the show up.

ROFLMAO... OMG. That's just too funny! Reminds me of walking to/from the Agora in downtown Cleveland on Prospect Ave. back in the late 70's. Ahhh those were the days. :rolleyes:

[PYRODAN]

The Agora! wow that brings back some memories! And The Pop Shop in the basement! But I digress....

[Northern Sky]

North - I'm totally tracking where you're coming from here, but with respect, I think you're placing the onus on the wrong person. IMHO, it's not the job of the car salesman to educate me about the laws of the road. It's his job to sell me the car. It's MY responsibility to learn the rules and laws that dictate what I can and cannot do with it once I have it.


Having said that.... At the end of the day, it's incumbent on the license holder, and ONLY the license holder, to get educated in order to avoid any legal consequences.

Actually I am glad you brought up this car scenario:

Who taught you the laws of the road? Some guy in a video? Your drunk buddies in the woods down the street?

I'm not sure when you bought a car last from a "reputable dealer"?

Did you test drive it first?

Did they make a copy of your drivers license?

Was the vehicle registered?

Did the dealer confirm your insurance?

Have you been in a car accident?

Were you, and the other people involve if applicable, insured?

What's the difference with and without insurance?

You should know what questions to ask and whom to ask them. Getting product is the easy part. Learning how to properly and legally use them is not so easy.

People tend to treat 1.4 like "bumper cars" then they get their 54 and are handed keys to this high performance vehicle with little or no training what so ever. That is were words of caution from friends on forums should tell you that with the addition of one Thunder King or 1.3 shell makes your entire display, 1.3 in the eyes of the law. You aren't "just adding a little spice" to last years display.

If there is no warning, then we the user are ignorant. That brings to mind the saying that "ignorance is no defense" for breaking the law. "I've done it this way for years and nothing ever happened". Well now it has.

Too bad nobody was responsible enough to teach you.




I don't know if I can pass that Ohio test. Give me a test question, let me see if I can answer it.

It's pretty much 1123, 1126 but getting a lead to sign off on your paperwork is the tough part. Jumping through the AHJ's hoops for a permit are the difficult part of the process not to mention the bill for the permit. It is common to be in the $600 mark. You don't officially have a permit until the display is done and the AHJ leaves which is when your cakes have been determined to be out.

Too many fireman try to tell you what to do in Ohio. I don't like it.

That pretty much describes the process. Imagine an AHJ blowing his horn saying that this is his third display of the year and you are on your fourth for the week. That's fireworks in Ohio.

Mind you this is for commerce and non commerce displays.

I am happy to live in PA.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

The Agora! wow that brings back some memories! And The Pop Shop in the basement! But I digress....

OMG! Was that you?! Lol... Ahhh the good old days....

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Actually I am glad you brought up this car scenario:

Who taught you the laws of the road? Some guy in a video? Your drunk buddies in the woods down the street? I taught myself by reading the Ohio Drivers Handbook I knew existed.

I'm not sure when you bought a car last from a "reputable dealer"? The dealer is only as reputable as the laws that support the consumer if the dealer proves unreputable. It's up to me to know the law.

Did you test drive it first? If I don't and there's something wrong and I buy it anyway, it's my fault for not driving it first, not the car dealers.

Did they make a copy of your drivers license? If they didn't and they need it, it's their fault not mine. Responsibility for knowing the laws works both ways

Was the vehicle registered? Etc. and so on... The answer is always going to be the same. It's incumbent on me to know OR FIND OUT what I'm required to do with regard to complying with the law.

You should know what questions to ask and whom to ask them. <--- You say this here....

Too bad nobody was responsible enough to teach you. <-- Then you say this here. Sounds like a contradiction to me. If I should know what questions to ask and whom to ask, then how can someone else be irresponsible for not teaching me? Seems to me that if I don't get the answers I need, then I need to ask someone else.






Please see above for response.

[Northern Sky]

Please see above for response.

Rick you are missing the whole point.

Maybe you should be Secretary of Education?

You seem to have it all figured out on your own.

That's it.

I'm done here.

[Wildwood]

Thank you PyroJoeNEPA

[Wildwood]

Thanks again, and you're welcome for the shoutout. Sorry for all the negativity that the shout out caused. To aid in your defense, at no time did I believe you were promoting the illegal discharge of fireworks in Ohio just by obtaining the BATF 54. Actually when the BATF called that was the first question they asked, if I was aware that I needed a lead exhibitors license to shoot in Ohio. Of course my answer was yes and that was the next step that I would pursue, but for now I would be putting on shows for family in Pa.(which does not require the extra license, just an approval from the AHJ). From there we scheduled the interview.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick you are missing the whole point.

Maybe you should be Secretary of Education?

You seem to have it all figured out on your own.

That's it.

I'm done here.

Personal attacks now? That's really unnecessary. We can agree to disagree without being disrespectful to one another.

[Northern Sky]

Personal attacks now? That's really unnecessary. We can agree to disagree without being disrespectful to one another.

Rick

I typed a long response but I realize it is futile.

I wish everyone had common sense but as my mother used to say, "the least common of all senses is common sense".

I'm done. I can't seem to reason with you. You are apparently the exception to many rules.

[Northern Sky]

Revised



Personal attacks now? That's really unnecessary. We can agree to disagree without being disrespectful to one another.

Rick

I typed a long response but I realize it is futile.

I wish everyone had common sense but as my mother used to say, "the least common of all senses is common sense".

I'm done. I can't seem to reason with you. You are apparently the exception to many rules.

You obviously haven't seen videos here of the "cool guys" that shoot 6" shells in their backyards and driveways in neighborhoods. Heck I know one of those guys, he lives 2 miles from me. What could possible go wrong? I saw a video of a guy doing it and nothing happened to him. . . . . yet.

Oh wait it did. He got arrested 2 years ago for doing what he has done for years. He lost his 54, CDL for work, his wife threw him out because he lost his job and the courts said his isn't a responsible parent and has supervised visitation with his kids.

I misspoke. Now I'm done.

Carry on.

[PGH_Pyro]

regarding people lighting fireworks in Ohio, I was in that state for New Years Eve just outside of Akron (in a suburban area) and there were a LOT of people lighting stuff of all kinds... salutes... cakes ... rockets ... everything that I see & hear popping off here, in PA ... didn't see any cops shutting anybody down, either... I realize the Ohio pyro. laws are more strict than PA but i'm "just sayin' .

[displayfireworks1]

Revised






Oh wait it did. He got arrested 2 years ago for doing what he has done for years. He lost his 54, CDL for work, his wife threw him out because he lost his job and the courts said his isn't a responsible parent and has supervised visitation with his kids.

I

At Northern Sky, you probably got the events correct. From what I know about human behavior you got the sequence wrong. My assessment is reverse the series of events you listed that is how it probably occurred. It starts with him not being responsible and ends with him being arrested. Now rewrite your assessment and I'll review you work again.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Revised




Rick

I typed a long response but I realize it is futile.

I wish everyone had common sense but as my mother used to say, "the least common of all senses is common sense".

I'm done. I can't seem to reason with you. You are apparently the exception to many rules.

You obviously haven't seen videos here of the "cool guys" that shoot 6" shells in their backyards and driveways in neighborhoods. Heck I know one of those guys, he lives 2 miles from me. What could possible go wrong? I saw a video of a guy doing it and nothing happened to him. . . . . yet.

Oh wait it did. He got arrested 2 years ago for doing what he has done for years. He lost his 54, CDL for work, his wife threw him out because he lost his job and the courts said his isn't a responsible parent and has supervised visitation with his kids.

I misspoke. Now I'm done.

Carry on.

I get what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. The difference is, I didn't feel the need to get personal as a result of the disagreement.

You can continue to believe that no one is ever responsible for themselves, and everything bad that happens to you is someone else's fault for not informing you of the possibility that you might be a danger to yourself and others. That's your right as an American. But if that's what passes for "common sense" where you come from, then I'm happy to be the exception to your rule.

[displayfireworks1]

I'm going to close this thread and we can all move on. Thanks for everyone opinion.