Homemade black powder

[Crab107]

So i just ordered black powder kit from skylighter. Guess im going with the red gum route. Anyone have advice or tips on how to make the best of it?? How does it compare to commercial grade such as goex cannon and 1fg..etc??

[ras1986]

I got 2 pounds of bp in my mill right now.... I haven't made bp the "hard"way yet. Just curious but why didn't you just oder a ball mill and go the easy way? Red gum bp looks super time consuming. As with anything, follow instructions to the T and it will come out perfect. I have followed skylighters tutorials for several projects so far and all of them have been super successful.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

The biggest factor in home made black powder is the charcoal you use. Different types of wood produce "hotter" burn rates. There are a lot of different woods being used in the hobby today--some of the most common are WP [southern white pine] red cedar and paowlina just to name a few. I'm not sure what skylighter sends with their kits--but I would guess it is SWP. Should not be an issue for you--as ras said-follow the directions.

[Crab107]

I got 2 pounds of bp in my mill right now.... I haven't made bp the "hard"way yet. Just curious but why didn't you just oder a ball mill and go the easy way? Red gum bp looks super time consuming. As with anything, follow instructions to the T and it will come out perfect. I have followed skylighters tutorials for several projects so far and all of them have been super successful.

Hell i thought redgum was the easy way! I guess if i decide to go the ballmill route i can just buy some dextrin. I have the "introductory practical pyrotechnics" book and was going to try a pound or so with that receipe.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

What is your intended application for your black powder? Lift charge, break charges, making black match, BP rocket motors, rice hulls,etc.? Depending on what you want to do will set you up for what you want to make. For example, you can make plain "pulverone--aka meal d" powder 75/15/10 for many things---if you want to "size it" you will have to add the dextrine so you can wet it & screen--or "rice" it into particle sizes. You can make plain pulverone and then adapt it as required for whatever project you are working on.
A dual drum tumbler from Harbor Freight is an inexpensive way to get started.

[ras1986]

Joe. If I wanted to make a star roller diy do you have any leads on something like this? I mean... I know I could buy a concrete mixer and be done but I like to build all my stuff.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Joe. If I wanted to make a star roller diy do you have any leads on something like this? I mean... I know I could buy a concrete mixer and be done but I like to build all my stuff.

Sending you a PM with some info.

[Crab107]

What is your intended application for your black powder? Lift charge, break charges, making black match, BP rocket motors, rice hulls,etc.? Depending on what you want to do will set you up for what you want to make. For example, you can make plain "pulverone--aka meal d" powder 75/15/10 for many things---if you want to "size it" you will have to add the dextrine so you can wet it & screen--or "rice" it into particle sizes. You can make plain pulverone and then adapt it as required for whatever project you are working on.
A dual drum tumbler from Harbor Freight is an inexpensive way to get started.

I want to try and make some 4" shells for next 4th. So i thought i would start with the BP since its the basis for all fireworks. So lift powder, burst powder and stars..

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I want to try and make some 4" shells for next 4th. So i thought i would start with the BP since its the basis for all fireworks. So lift powder, burst powder and stars..
For 4" shells you would want to use the equivalent of 2FA size BP for lift. You can use BP to break them, but BP coated rice hulls will work much better [and use a LOT less material]. MealD [pulverone] for your basic charcoal [willow or Tiger Tail] stars.
You can search YouTube for a tutorial Ned Gorsky has on how to coat small batches of rice hulls. Very easy to do. So, basically you want to start with plain fine BP [pulverone] and go from there. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.
Also, look into making the "rubber stars" [acetone based] -they are simple to make in small batches, do not require special tooling [star plate or pump] , and dry quickly & can be used the same day you make them.

[Crab107]

For 4" shells you would want to use the equivalent of 2FA size BP for lift. You can use BP to break them, but BP coated rice hulls will work much better [and use a LOT less material]. MealD [pulverone] for your basic charcoal [willow or Tiger Tail] stars.
You can search YouTube for a tutorial Ned Gorsky has on how to coat small batches of rice hulls. Very easy to do. So, basically you want to start with plain fine BP [pulverone] and go from there. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.
Also, look into making the "rubber stars" [acetone based] -they are simple to make in small batches, do not require special tooling [star plate or pump] , and dry quickly & can be used the same day you make them.

Thank you!!! Its going to be a slow process. 1 i dont want to blow my face off. 2 i want them to actually work!!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Thank you!!! Its going to be a slow process. 1 i dont want to blow my face off. 2 i want them to actually work!!

This is one of the big advantages to joining a pyro club. Seek out someone to mentor you. Mistakes in this hobby can be very dangerous. There are lots of "seasoned" pyros out there that-I am sure- would "take you under their wing".
If there is anything you are unsure about---ask before you do it.
There is a lot of "information" available on the internet---BUT--not all of it is correct or good.

[Westpapyro]

This is one of the big advantages to joining a pyro club. Seek out someone to mentor you. Mistakes in this hobby can be very dangerous. There are lots of "seasoned" pyros out there that-I am sure- would "take you under their wing".
If there is anything you are unsure about---ask before you do it.
There is a lot of "information" available on the internet---BUT--not all of it is correct or good.
Amen and plus 1 to that.

[wildcherryxoxo]

What is your intended application for your black powder? Lift charge, break charges, making black match, BP rocket motors, rice hulls,etc.? Depending on what you want to do will set you up for what you want to make. For example, you can make plain "pulverone--aka meal d" powder 75/15/10 for many things---if you want to "size it" you will have to add the dextrine so you can wet it & screen--or "rice" it into particle sizes. You can make plain pulverone and then adapt it as required for whatever project you are working on.
A dual drum tumbler from Harbor Freight is an inexpensive way to get started.

This is so ****ing wrong, you are in no position to be giving advice on fireworks manufacturing

[ras1986]

This is so ****ing wrong, you are in no position to be giving advice on fireworks manufacturing

Woah...... that is joe..... I think he is probably one the most knowledgeable pyro builders on this forum. Don't think for one second that what info he gives out is wrong....don't join this place and immediately start shit talking people

[JmFnG]

This is so ****ing wrong, you are in no position to be giving advice on fireworks manufacturing

WTF is that about? Is it just a pointless troll, or do you care to address specifically what is incorrect with Joe's post and enlighten us with your version of the truth?

Oh wait, that info is 100% accurate. You've got nothing to say. Crawl back into your hole and pull that childish nonsense elsewhere.

[Big Mark]

wildcherryxoxo If you don't mind me asking what makes you the one to make that call. Are you some Pyro grand master? The eye in the Pyro sky what we would like to know.

[ilovecrackle]

This is so ****ing wrong, you are in no position to be giving advice on fireworks manufacturing

Troll alert. Please crawl back under the bridge from which you came.

[displayfireworks1]

Brace yourself Pyrojoe . Pyro 20 attack at 12 o’clock. You are breaking one of the old Pyro U rules taking about making fireworks. Coming out of the state of Utah, Mmmmm let me think what pyro club is up there. These people that make these comments are not followers of my YouTube videos.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Brace yourself Pyrojoe . Pyro 20 attack at 12 o’clock. You are breaking one of the old Pyro U rules taking about making fireworks. Coming out of the state of Utah, Mmmmm let me think what pyro club is up there. These people that make these comments are not followers of my YouTube videos.
I can understand his whining if I gave someone incorrect information--but if he doesn't like the way things are done on this Forum, he can exercise his right to leave--the door swings both ways--just don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out wildcherry.
And thanks, guys, for speaking up on my behalf. I was just going to sit here and let him cry for a while before I responded--it could have been entertaining.
I'm tired of listening to all the political crybabies all over the internet that feel like they have to go to their "safe places" and pout because their candidate didn't win---doing the very thing they said their opponents followers would do!
Ho hum----anyone have any fireworks questions?????? We can talk about the deep dark hidden secrets some people don't want you to know---like, what end of the shell goes in the tube first? hahaha....or what is the difference between German Dark Aluminum, Indian Blackhead Aluminum, Blue Aluminum Ekhart 809 Aluminum or Peanut Butter when used in a formula???

[wildcherryxoxo]

Woah...... that is joe..... I think he is probably one the most knowledgeable pyro builders on this forum. Don't think for one second that what info he gives out is wrong....don't join this place and immediately start shit talking people

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king!

[liame]

I'm tired of listening to all the political crybabies all over the internet that feel like they have to go to their "safe places" and pout because their candidate didn't win---doing the very thing they said their opponents followers would do!

I must admit i don't get the "safe places" thing.

[ras1986]

What IS the difference between the different types of aluminum......???? I've Lay's been curious... blackhead. German dark. Eckhart.????

[PyroJoeNEPA]

What IS the difference between the different types of aluminum......???? I've Lay's been curious... blackhead. German dark. Eckhart.????
I'll send you a PM ---I don't want to bump into wildcherry's "safe space". ROFL.....

[liame]

:confused: the only "safe space" i know of is a hard car or safe room. i dont mean to go off topic but i have no idea what this is.

[wildcherryxoxo]

What is your intended application for your black powder? Lift charge, break charges, making black match, BP rocket motors, rice hulls,etc.? Depending on what you want to do will set you up for what you want to make. For example, you can make plain "pulverone--aka meal d" powder 75/15/10 for many things---if you want to "size it" you will have to add the dextrine so you can wet it & screen--or "rice" it into particle sizes. You can make plain pulverone and then adapt it as required for whatever project you are working on.
A dual drum tumbler from Harbor Freight is an inexpensive way to get started.

First of all, pOlverone and Meal-D are COMPLETELY ****ing different (and NEITHER of them come straight out of a ****ing ball mill), in fact, I cant think of two components that are farther apart in their manufacture and function. Polverone is a common component in cylinder shell building, its (generally) a screen mixed powder, containing dextrin, dampened with water, and granulated through a 3 or 4 mesh screen. Its primary purpose is to act as a flammable filler during shell construction, EG its packed tightly into the space between a ring of comets and the casing, or packed between stars between the canulle and the casing wall (or comets).

Meal-D a blasting grade of black powder made by 'corning and pucking', most commercial black powder manufacturing is done with wheel mills, instead of using a binder, the milled powder is pressed into a puck at a certain density, then crushed and sorted by size. Meal-D has an average particle size of 0.0165". Meal-D is (or was, really) used for a lot of things, from timing devices to glitter formulas, to black match.

Its pretty ****ing pathetic that you all praise such a shitter tryhard like pyrojoeNEPA, he sure talks big game for someone who hardly says a peep on a real manufacturing forum. I guess this is HIS safe space, pathetic.


oh and by the ****ing way, ECKART never made 809, the closest thing they make to "809" is 10890.

[wildcherryxoxo]

Brace yourself Pyrojoe . Pyro 20 attack at 12 o’clock. You are breaking one of the old Pyro U rules taking about making fireworks. Coming out of the state of Utah, Mmmmm let me think what pyro club is up there. These people that make these comments are not followers of my YouTube videos.

Dave, quit playing the ****ing victim- I never said that it was wrong to talk about making fireworks, did I? All I am doing is correcting some egregious errors that I came across when I found this forum.

Utah? No booze and multiple mother in laws? NO THANK YOU!! Ill spare you the cyber-policing, my name is Moe and im a pyro-aholic

[Big Mark]

Will Moe it certainly seems you know your pyro. LOL just saying. I personally don't know pyrojoe but I don't think he would try to steer any one the wrong way. And he has been here a while.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

[QUOTE]First of all, pOlverone and Meal-D are COMPLETELY ****ing different (and NEITHER of them come straight out of a ****ing ball mill),
I didn't say it came right out of a ball mill--Quoting PyroSource WIKI: Pulverone is ball milled (http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Ball_milled?redlink=1&veaction=edit&flow=create-page-article-redlink) black powder (http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Black_powder) that has been slightly moistened so that it just clings together and pressed through a fine screen (a window screen will work). The resultant granules are dried and used for a number of different tasks. While you can leave the black powder in the ball milled state for packing in tubes - it will be a fine dust and very hard to work with. Making pulverone out of it decreases the dust problem and actually makes the hotter powders useful as lift powders because of the air spaces between the grains.
We were talking in generalities--not having a tutorial on manufacturing processes.

I DO stand corrected in that I should have said MEAL---not Meal-D.
Quoting WIKIPEDIA "Meal powder is the fine dust left over when black powder (gunpowder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)) is corned and screened to separate it into different grain sizes." oops 1 demerit... Also, in the article for Harry at Skylighter that Ned wrote on Black Powder the article says this: Many pyrotechnic projects call for "Meal-D" grade black powder. Some examples of these are formulas for the manufacture of stars and some other formulations, manufacture of BP-coated rice hulls for burst, priming of stars, manufacture of black match, etc. Commercial Meal-D is the extremely fine powder which remains after the granulation process, called "corning," which is used in the commercial production of granulated black powder. We will be using a different granulation process here, but the mill dust you've made with your ball mill is suitable for use as-is in many applications calling for "Meal-D" grade black powder..


Meal-D a blasting grade of black powder made by 'corning and pucking', most commercial black powder manufacturing is done with wheel mills, instead of using a binder, the milled powder is pressed into a puck at a certain density, then crushed and sorted by size. Meal-D has an average particle size of 0.0165". Meal-D is (or was, really) used for a lot of things, from timing devices to glitter formulas, to black match.



oh and by the ****ing way, ECKART never made 809, the closest thing they make to "809" is 10890

I bought the Aluminum from Chris D***** at US P*** S****** and it was marked 809---NOT 10890. There was even a thread about this on another site whether it was actually 10890 or 809---but that is a MOOT POINT.

So, Moe, with that I say Good Night!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

:confused: the only "safe space" i know of is a hard car or safe room. i dont mean to go off topic but i have no idea what this is.
I was making a joke with that--referring to the college kids today that are so easily offended if you say something they don't like or disagree with--and they have to go to their "safe zone" where they feel secure.

[Chris H]

For what it's worth WildCherry is right on basically everything. Saying it like an a-hole doesn't make him wrong. There is a lot of general confusion with regard to all the terminology with regard to BP and BP like compositions. To me, and most cylinder shell builders, polverone is an un-milled, granulated composition of BP ingredients used as a flammable filler essentially. It means "coarse powder" in the most literal sense. Some confusingly use it to refer to a milled product, but if you look at Fulcanelli or Hardt it's defined as an unmilled product. Pyrosource and PyroWiki tend not to be the greatest sources of information. Meal-D is the fines from corning and grading milled or commercially produced black powder. It's what passes 50 mesh down to dust. I would not use it for tigertail or anything I wanted a long tail due to it's faster and cleaner burning.

For what it's worth skyligher also definitely does not provide white pine in their kits. Everything is commercial airfloat, which is a hardwood charcoal and a majority oak from what I've heard. It's slow and kind of shitty for real BP. Their kits, even with red gum, are adequate at best. I suggest using a real charcoal of a known source of good wood to make BP. The difference is night and day.

[Big Mark]

Will since we brought up the topic of some Aluminum can I ask what is the difference between Eckert German dark and Indian black head. I know Eckert is the king of dark Aluminum but what makes it so. And is there that big of a difference between the two. Thanks

[wildcherryxoxo]

[QUOTE=wildcherryxoxo;41462]
I didn't say it came right out of a ball mill--Quoting PyroSource WIKI: Pulverone is ball milled (http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Ball_milled?redlink=1&veaction=edit&flow=create-page-article-redlink) black powder (http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Black_powder) that has been slightly moistened so that it just clings together and pressed through a fine screen (a window screen will work). The resultant granules are dried and used for a number of different tasks. While you can leave the black powder in the ball milled state for packing in tubes - it will be a fine dust and very hard to work with. Making pulverone out of it decreases the dust problem and actually makes the hotter powders useful as lift powders because of the air spaces between the grains.
We were talking in generalities--not having a tutorial on manufacturing processes.

I DO stand corrected in that I should have said MEAL---not Meal-D.
Quoting WIKIPEDIA "Meal powder is the fine dust left over when black powder (gunpowder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)) is corned and screened to separate it into different grain sizes." oops 1 demerit... Also, in the article for Harry at Skylighter that Ned wrote on Black Powder the article says this: Many pyrotechnic projects call for "Meal-D" grade black powder. Some examples of these are formulas for the manufacture of stars and some other formulations, manufacture of BP-coated rice hulls for burst, priming of stars, manufacture of black match, etc. Commercial Meal-D is the extremely fine powder which remains after the granulation process, called "corning," which is used in the commercial production of granulated black powder. We will be using a different granulation process here, but the mill dust you've made with your ball mill is suitable for use as-is in many applications calling for "Meal-D" grade black powder..






I bought the Aluminum from Chris D***** at US P*** S****** and it was marked 809---NOT 10890. There was even a thread about this on another site whether it was actually 10890 or 809---but that is a MOOT POINT.

So, Moe, with that I say Good Night!


Its clear that nothing anyone says is going to change your mind- "Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired"


(and the 809 you bought was 809, but it wasnt manufactured by ****ing Eckart you nimrod)

[PyroJoeNEPA]

(and the 809 you bought was 809, but it wasnt manufactured by ****ing Eckart you nimrod)
So let me see if I understand the way you process information:
1. I bought some aluminum from a source that you are familiar with.
2. That aluminum I bought was advertised as Ekhart 809 aluminum.
3. I received it & it was labeled as advertised.
4. The product was not made by Ekhart so that gives you justification to use profanity
and call me a name?
OK--grow up! and, if you would drop the vulgarities from your conversation you won't wear out the * key on your keyboard.
Any future posts from you will be ignored.