Disappointing news

[aldude345]

Here I just found out that there is a state law in mn that prohibits an individual even a certified one from sponsoring fireworks even me at my own house. They said even if i had insurance and all that I can't do it unless I am a company. It is indeed in the Minnesota lawbook. Man i am gonna have to get creative by either going out of state or just doing the good old sneak attack with 1.4 1.3 mix. At the risk of the atf finding out somehow. I am getting close to being state certified and this news is really a bummer. Is there many states with that kind of provision

[Butterman900]

Sounds like I would look at starting a "company". Can't speak for there personally but I know here in KY a 75 buck business license from city hall and your a company. I doubt the law states that your "company" has to actually do for profit business.

Side note, this may be an actual blessing because I'm not a tax lawyer but you should be able to reflect a loss on your " business" and create a way to write your pyro products off on your taxes?? Hell I may start a company and I live in the great state of KY where the whole state is a year round open shoot!

[vegassalute]

Sounds like I would look at starting a "company". Can't speak for there personally but I know here in KY a 75 buck business license from city hall and your a company. I doubt the law states that your "company" has to actually do for profit business.

Side note, this may be an actual blessing because I'm not a tax lawyer but you should be able to reflect a loss on your " business" and create a way to write your pyro products off on your taxes?? Hell I may start a company and I live in the great state of KY where the whole state is a year round open shoot!

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully if there are any tax attorneys or CPAs on the forum they will weigh in.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

It's interesting that they would certify you as an individual, but they won't allow you to shoot anything unless you're a company. Regardless, I think Butterman900 and Vegassalute are spot on. It's very easy to become a business by simply buying a business license. If the law is written that vaguely, a business license should be all you need to comply with that provision. I'm not an attorney either, but my wife has been running a daycare business out of our home for 30+ years now. She has a business license too. So we get to write off a great deal of things related to the house because of the business. I even write off my 4th of July show because it's a daycare related event and all the parents and children are invited to attend.

Anyway.. My $0.02 for what it's worth.

[aldude345]

Wouldn't company mean commerce instead of non commerce changes game when it comes to dot and hazemat

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Wouldn't company mean commerce instead of non commerce changes game when it comes to dot and hazemat

There are many "non-profit" and "not for profit" companies out there. Depends on how the statute is written. If all it says is that you must be a business/company, then I would think buying a business license would satisfy the requirements of the statute. Again... Just my $0.02.

[aldude345]

State fire Marshall told me i would need to be an LLC or something along those lines

[Butterman900]

So be a LLC. That is nothing but a notarized document. Matter of fact, don't know if they still do but about two years ago I know at Lowes you could get "will maker" software for like 25 bucks. Despite the title it has all the right functions to start a LLC. You just fill in the auto populated boxes and hit print, take to a notary and file at the courthouse. I did this three times, one LLC and two trusts that own suppressors for firearms. This is the wrong forum to go into the why of doing that but it jumped me through a similar legal loophole like you need to jump through now.

If you don't want to do all this I can recommend some good realtors in KY��

[Westpapyro]

Just to be clear their is a law that states that you can not shoot 1.3 for a private show or audience. Every show in the state must be a sponsored public event?

[Butterman900]

Is this a state or federal law?

And I think we would need the legal definition of sponsored public event to find a loophole?

[aldude345]

1408...smh

[Butterman900]

Well I would think that is pretty clear Aldude. " a fire works display company may sponsor events for private parties ". Again start up" Aldude pyrotechnics" and sponsor your own private parties. Other options would include a homeowners association if that applies to you. That document says sponsored, not paid for. So if you have HOA or even a church you attend you could potentially approach them and offer to do a display for $1 dollar sponsorship and shoot the show you want anyway.

I agree it's way harder for you than it should be but just trying to offer you some possible solutions to your dilemma since you already invested the time and effort to get your license and state cert.

Mike

[aldude345]

141114121413
This is a text conversation I hade with the main state fire Marshall who is in charge of pyrotechnics. As u can see he confirms what I feared on my first screenshot

[aldude345]

Really appreciate the ideas your throwing out there mike. Of course Minnesota is always retarded when it comes to crap like this. Of course I look up Wisconsin and they do indeed issue permits to individuals. What gives. Time to move I guess. Only way I could make this work (although cheaper) is be able to shoot under the company I work (Hollywood Pyrotechnics) for name. The ship show thing u hear mentioned but the president of company said she would do it if i achieved lead status and had my hazmat endorsement. I mean it's a good way in but could take long time to achieve

[Butterman900]

Well Al, here what I see. First the Fire Marshall kinda, by my interpretation, said the same thing we are and that is start up an LLC. If you have the insurance already covered then that should be no problem. Second your document says outdoor display permits go through the local govt office, only the Fire Marshall for indoor permits. Unless indoor was on your agenda o would apply for the permit with you'll local office and see what happens, basically banking on your local guys being ignorant to all this. If they giv you the permit then I think your covered. I know here in my little Ky town the mayor would pretty much say, " my town i do what I want, that is for big cities" and do it anyway as long as I invited her to the show that is. But I live in a small town and that is an advantage.

Don't let the man get you down Al !!

BTW- I bet the fire marshalls office never mentioned any of this when you were sending them a check for your operators license did they ?

[aldude345]

I am not to that point just yet actually. I need 5 shows and pass the exam which I have next month. 4th show is tomm and have 2 more end of week so the experience side will be done very soon. I still want state certification of course cause I couldn't even begin to think lead without it. Yeah I could certainly try to apply but I also believe the operator report u must fill out goes directly to the fire Marshall.

[vegassalute]

So be a LLC. That is nothing but a notarized document. Matter of fact, don't know if they still do but about two years ago I know at Lowes you could get "will maker" software for like 25 bucks. Despite the title it has all the right functions to start a LLC. You just fill in the auto populated boxes and hit print, take to a notary and file at the courthouse. I did this three times, one LLC and two trusts that own suppressors for firearms. This is the wrong forum to go into the why of doing that but it jumped me through a similar legal loophole like you need to jump through now.

If you don't want to do all this I can recommend some good realtors in KY��

Lord willing when I retire someday that's exactly what I'm going to do - look for a realtor in a pyro-friendly state!

[ras1986]

Shoot the show anyway.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Glad I live in Pennsylvania--in spite of all the potholes in the roads!!!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

1408...smh

I think Butterman900 got it exactly right. The document is pretty clear, and the feedback you received from the main state Fire Marshall backs it up.

Make up a name, get a business license, and then have your business sponsor your show! Easy peezy.

Butterman900 also makes a good point when he suggested having a church or HOA sponsor your show(s). The only issue I see there is liability. If something goes wrong, they're on the hook along with you.

So just make it easy on yourself! Make up a name for an LLC, pay the $50 or whatever it costs, and get your business license! Then you're golden.

[Westpapyro]

That page #5 of the book says the title public display fireworks operator guidelines!
Where is it in writing about a private display?

[displayfireworks1]

I am showing at least 51 holders of ATF Fireworks license in the state of Minnesota. I can see the names and there are private individuals on the list. Someone in that state is shooting 1.3 fireworks that is not part of a company. In a state with a low number of privately held ATF license holders, they are just not sure what to tell you when you ask questions. Many of the laws are for commercial applications. Everyone has a different level of risk tolerance. One one end someone may need to hear from multiple authorities it is ok to do something and then there is another person that just does not even ask. And of course there is everything in between.