Whole sell 1.4

[natedogg284752]

Just curious, when you get your type 54 most places will let you buy wholesale 1.4 pyro. Say my neighbor wants some and I sell him couple cases of canister shell . Does that make me a distributor? And is there a way for me to be held liable if anything happens?

[masterblaster]

Just curious, when you get your type 54 most places will let you buy wholesale 1.4 pyro. Say my neighbor wants some and I sell him couple cases of canister shell . Does that make me a distributor? And is there a way for me to be held liable if anything happens?

if your neighbor fails a background check and is unable to purchase a gun, and you sell him a gun, what does that make you? if he does something with that gun that is illegal and you're the one who provided it will you be held liable?

[natedogg284752]

No I assume not. Im just trying to know all my facts before I start doing something and have a federal agents knocking on my door. Asking where my distribution license is. Say it's not the neighbor say around the fourth ppl know I sell cheap pyro and I sell to friends and family. How much do you sell before needing a license. There has to be a ruling on this and I would just like to know what it is or more where it is so I can look at it.

[masterblaster]

im not an attorney so i cant offer real advice but if i were to do that i'd just stick to close family or friends and perhaps have them sign something similar to what you sign when purchasing fireworks. law suits have a tendency to pull in everyone who may have been involved in even the simplest manner.

[displayfireworks1]

Where are you at in this Type 54 process? Are you in the I'm still thinking about it phase? Because that is what it sounds like. It sounds like some other stuff also but we will just start with the former questions.

[natedogg284752]

no, i have sent it in. i called them the other day just to see where it was in the process plus i had a question. and they told me it hasnt hit my local atf yet. but they saw that im already in the system as a shooter under the company i work for. so hopefully that will speed up the process.

[nypyrochef1.3]

The type 54 does not make you a dealer. In fact that is one of the points they will go over with you in the interview. U don't need a type 54 for 1.4 either

[natedogg284752]

im planning doing 1.3 shows as i already am, and then doing 1.4 shows on the side as a little extra money.

[natedogg284752]

i guess my question here is. lets say i cant make it to a show but someone that helps with other shows can make it. and i give/sell them the pyro to go do a show and something goes wrong is there any way that it can come back on me. i really hope the questions do not sound dumb. i just have questions and just want clarification on a few things. im not planning on making a business selling 1.4 out my garage but i am trying and hoping to have a business doing display shows with 1.3 and doing 1.4 shows on the side at receptions or celebrations.

[masterblaster]

i guess my question here is. lets say i cant make it to a show but someone that helps with other shows can make it. and i give/sell them the pyro to go do a show and something goes wrong is there any way that it can come back on me. i really hope the questions do not sound dumb. i just have questions and just want clarification on a few things. im not planning on making a business selling 1.4 out my garage but i am trying and hoping to have a business doing display shows with 1.3 and doing 1.4 shows on the side at receptions or celebrations.

look up case law on this or similar scenarios like the gun example i gave above. i'm sure there is some case law out there that could answer this for you.

[natedogg284752]

thanks ill try that

[Rick_In_Tampa]

i guess my question here is. lets say i cant make it to a show but someone that helps with other shows can make it. and i give/sell them the pyro to go do a show and something goes wrong is there any way that it can come back on me..

My $0.02 based solely on my opinion and (what I consider to be) common sense...

If the statement "someone who helps with other shows" means this person works for you; and if he/she does the show improperly and/or doesn't follow safety rules/procedures, then yes. Your azz is out there a mile since he/she is your employee and the show is being done (presumably) under a contract signed with you and/or your company.

If the statement "someone who helps with other shows" means this person has his or her own side business, and you simply steer the lead in his/her direction and he/she signs a contract under their own banner, then they assume all the liability if something goes wrong.

As for selling the fireworks to the person... If you're legally allowed to sell the fireworks in the first place; and you do the due diligence required to ensure the person you're selling them to is legally entitled to buy them; then you can't be held liable for what they do with them once they have them. If that was the case, vendors like the sponsors here would have been sued out of business a long time ago.

Again, just my humble opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

[masterblaster]

My $0.02 based solely on my opinion and (what I consider to be) common sense...

If the statement "someone who helps with other shows" means this person works for you; and if he/she does the show improperly and/or doesn't follow safety rules/procedures, then yes. Your azz is out there a mile since he/she is your employee and the show is being done (presumably) under a contract signed with you and/or your company.

If the statement "someone who helps with other shows" means this person has his or her own side business, and you simply steer the lead in his/her direction and he/she signs a contract under their own banner, then they assume all the liability if something goes wrong.

As for selling the fireworks to the person... If you're legally allowed to sell the fireworks in the first place; and you do the due diligence required to ensure the person you're selling them to is legally entitled to buy them; then you can't be held liable for what they do with them once they have them. If that was the case, vendors like the sponsors here would have been sued out of business a long time ago.

Again, just my humble opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

in my brief time on earth ive learned that you can always be held liable unless you have a strong contract in place disclaiming liability or passing it on to another entity.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

in my brief time on earth ive learned that you can always be liable unless you have a strong contract in place disclaiming liability.

You can indict a ham sandwich. Doesn't mean you'll win the case.

My wife has run a daycare business for 30 years. I wrote her contract and we've modified it numerous times over the course of 30 years to cover things we never envisioned earlier in her career. It's pretty iron clad right now. Contracts are all about the details. In your scenario, it depends on who the parties to the contract are. If your friend signs a contract to do a show for someone and he/she botches the show, they are held liable even if you sold him the fireworks. Having said that... If you sold 1.3G fireworks to your buddy knowing he/she doesn't have a license to posses them, and something goes wrong at a shoot, then you're an accessory to the crime and your azz is done! Bottom line, if you do everything in good faith and you do your due diligence, you'll be fine.

By the way... There's no such thing as disclaiming liability in a contract. That's the other misnomer about contracts. Just because it's in there, doesn't mean it's legal and/or enforceable. So you can put in your contract "Even if I decide to sell 1.3G fireworks to someone I know is legally not able to posses them, I can't be held liable if something goes wrong when they use them." and see how fast you wind up behind bars when/if something goes wrong!!

[displayfireworks1]

At Natedogg284752
You already in the system you say? You are really going to be the system sooner than you think, if you are thinking about selling fireworks to people in your neighborhood, you will be in the system. Stop calling the ATF and when they come to see you, don’t ask them any questions unless it is to clarify something he is telling you. I’m ready to call the ATF office in Indianapolis and tell them they are going to need allot the full three hours to the Inspector for your interview. You sound like a guy trying to work 100 deceptive practices to avoid rules and regulations. When I help people get an ATF license , it is for their own enjoyment, I do not recommend anyone get in the display fireworks business. Most people that try it are out of business within two years.
All this sounds like you are baiting people on this forum. Did you order my ATF DVD’s ? I need you to send me a private message with your name and address to verify who you are.

[masterblaster]

You can indict a ham sandwich. Doesn't mean you'll win the case.

My wife has run a daycare business for 30 years. I wrote her contract and we've modified it numerous times over the course of 30 years to cover things we never envisioned earlier in her career. It's pretty iron clad right now. Contracts are all about the details. In your scenario, it depends on who the parties to the contract are. If your friend signs a contract to do a show for someone and he/she botches the show, they are held liable even if you sold him the fireworks. Having said that... If you sold 1.3G fireworks to your buddy knowing he/she doesn't have a license to posses them, and something goes wrong at a shoot, then you're an accessory to the crime and your azz is done! Bottom line, if you do everything in good faith and you do your due diligence, you'll be fine.

By the way... There's no such thing as disclaiming liability in a contract. That's the other misnomer about contracts. Just because it's in there, doesn't mean it's legal and/or enforceable. So you can put in your contract "Even if I decide to sell 1.3G fireworks to someone I know is legally not able to posses them, I can't be held liable if something goes wrong when they use them." and see how fast you wind up behind bars when/if something goes wrong!!

correct, if its an illegal act to begin with, but if done correctly you can work all that in.

[Northern Sky]

What you are asking about is all illegal. Selling fireworks requires additional licensing and insurance as does doing displays in commerce by yourself or someone subcontracted by you plus a CDL with Hazmat endorsement.

Steer clear of this to avoid headlining on the evening news.

[Westpapyro]

What you are asking about is all illegal. Selling fireworks requires additional licensing and insurance as does doing displays in commerce by yourself or someone subcontracted by you plus a CDL with Hazmat endorsement.

Steer clear of this to avoid headlining on the evening news.
Plus one to that!

[chriskrc]

Plus one to that!

Another plus one on this don't be the morning headline in the news.

[displayfireworks1]

I apologize for being a little harsh on Natedogg284752. I spoke with him in PM , he is legit and may be getting advice from too many sources. He is working with one of my advertisers and wants to obtain the ATF license, I am predicting that will happen. I advised him and the same with anyone, when the ATF comes to interview you, let them do their job , they have material to cover and need to be sure you understand it. Do not make the Inspector feel like they are on a quiz show and cloud the educational event. Questions should be directed towards clarification of what they are telling you because you will be required to sign off on it. Questions about making money off of displays are not their area of expertise. Neither are CDL , insurance or any of that sort information. They are there to grant you explosive privileges and help you understand the responsibilities that go with that. My guess is they are smart enough not to answer unrelated questions outside of their scope of authority.