FireWire good or bad ?

[displayfireworks1]

I put this in the Consumer Fireworks category because I believe these are used mainly to fire Consumer Fireworks. This will be something I will be working on as soon as I can obtain the remaining match they did not use.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyBVigyLnKc

[displayfireworks1]

Whats interesting is, I just got off the phone with another person that helped set this display up. He is telling me an item blew apart and somehow threw one of the Cobra Modules. It actually broke the module. They had more items than expected so they had to place double FireWire into most numbers on the modules. He reports the failure rate to be low. You can never rule out other factors when you hear something did not work. They said they will give me some of the FireWire match from their original purchase they have remaining. The real test will be when I receive those and run the test.
I found their display on line. If you listen at 10:05 on this video you can hear the malfunctioning item.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUIPHPaxhao

[Dion]

That ground break looked and sounded like a boomer!;)

[displayfireworks1]

Who knows what the story is, LOL. That is why I need to get some of the match from the original purchase and test it.

[flatlander]

I have purchased a box of 40 to try them out. I will let you know the success rate when I get some safe and sane items to test them on. In Michigan, the general public are not allowed to display fireworks except for the day before the day of and the day after most legal holidays. I think it is important to record the batch number on the inside of the box if available. I purchased them because they are a 1.4 item and can be stored as such.

[papageorgio]

I used a combination of the FireWire and the Falcon II igniters on my show this year for the 4th. I have two low level firing systems. One is a Quantum Fire and the other is the China one like you reviewed in one of your videos. I had a few items that didn't go off with the FireWire. I believe they all fired, but I'm not positive since I had some people helping me clean up so I didn't get to inspect everything that didn't go. I used them on consumer products so I tried to slide the visco fuse in between the cap and the match end then taped it on. I had a theory about why some of my stuff didn't fire with them so I hooked up six of them to cakes that didn't go off the next night. Two of them I taped directly to the fuse and four of them I cut the fuse at an angle to expose the core. The first one of the two that I didn't cut didn't go off even though the FireWire blew. Everything else ignited. So that is my experience with them so far.

[Pyropug]

I use FireWire exclusively the last 2 years never had one fail. I only wire these in parallel.

[Pyropug]

I use FireWire exclusively the last 2 years never had one fail. I only wire these in parallel.

Another thing don't use more than 2 per cue. On the firetek this year they all ignited. I insert matches directly in the charge as well. Early 2015 there was a bad batch of these, is it possible those where used?

[displayfireworks1]

At Pyropug
How did everything go using the FireTek System?

[Pyropug]

At Pyropug
How did everything go using the FireTek System?


Ran a time scripted 8 minute show 100' front, L&R stations and a center. Split 2 channels in parallel 100' each. All this on 1 fth48e with 22 volt LiPo battery. Everything fired perfectly. Whole different experience to watch the show run on autopilot. Only issue I regret is not getting the wireless option, I'm in communication to try to upgrade. I want to expand with more modules eventually.

[displayfireworks1]

You guys out there with the FireTek compact system, can you please post pictures and or video of details on your battery setups using the LiPo battery and connectors. I keep getting inquires on the LiPo battery setup from new owners of the Compact system. They are not sure of the exact setup. I know you may need to post links on this one so please do. Are you getting this battery setup at hobby stores?

[Pyropug]

You guys out there with the FireTek compact system, can you please post pictures and or video of details on your battery setups using the LiPo battery and connectors. I keep getting inquires on the LiPo battery setup from new owners of the Compact system. They are not sure of the exact setup. I know you may need to post links on this one so please do. Are you getting this battery setup at hobby stores?

Quite simple setup, it's a hobby r/c battery simply wired into the adapter that comes with system. I have everything in a waterproof elephant brand case model e150 including the dedicated tablet. I fired 2 shows complete and still have 22.5 volts. Purchase a quality battery mine is a pulse paid $50+ cheaper ones are more apt to problems and burning. They make thermal wraps for these batteries if you fear any fire, these are known to ignite during charging. Sorry I don't have pics of setup.

[ras1986]

I used close to 200 this year Nd had zero misfires

[displayfireworks1]

At Pyropug
No not pictures of the setup, just pictures of the battery and the jumpers on the FireTEK. A close up picture of the battery so we can reference the numbers, Where did you purchase? It was a hobby store wasn't it . i keep getting questions about that Lipo battery setup you have. I have one email from a guy telling me a store called Batteries Plus does not carry it. If you have trouble posting pictures just email them to me when you find the time, pyrotalk@gmail.com

[gt95stang300]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXGL9&P=ML i have no personal experience with firing systems but have rc experience so i imagine something like this with 2 of them wired in series would fit the bill. The only downside would be the initial expense of a charger to go with it and a little bit of soldering skills would go a long way to making your own series harness for the batteries. I myself am torn between the firetek system and a cobra as im getting heavier into fireworks and my one fuse setup this year was underwhelming for the first half. Im leaning more towards the firetek and if i choose that one then these batteries are what i would use. For those without soldering skills there is something like this also http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFWRJ&P=ML

[Pyropug]

Here's exact model I'm using

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PULSE-22-2V-1800mAh-45C-6S-Lipo-Battery-Ultra-Power-Series-Goblin-380-/191848211102?hash=item2cab0b629e:g:ALwAAOSwYmZXDtu V

Unfortunately I left system back at my vacation property since I'm doing a show on Labor Day weekend, 160 miles away from where I am now. What I did is cut the factory conection end off of the battery leads then I used a simple wire connector crimped together with the thinner wire that plugs into the firetek connector, heat shrink tubes over the connection. Plugged into the module and done!

[Pyropug]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXGL9&P=ML i have no personal experience with firing systems but have rc experience so i imagine something like this with 2 of them wired in series would fit the bill. The only downside would be the initial expense of a charger to go with it and a little bit of soldering skills would go a long way to making your own series harness for the batteries. I myself am torn between the firetek system and a cobra as im getting heavier into fireworks and my one fuse setup this year was underwhelming for the first half. Im leaning more towards the firetek and if i choose that one then these batteries are what i would use. For those without soldering skills there is something like this also http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFWRJ&P=ML

Series of batteries not needed, just 1-22.2 LiPo will be more then enough. As for the charger I got this one.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/iMAX-B6AC-Digital-RC-Lipo-NiMH-Battery-Balance-Charger-Discharger-EU-PLUG-/252388607383?nav=SEARCH

[Dmkaz]

Dave -

From another thread I posted in, here are the specs of my battery setup:

The device connector I used: http://www.horizonhobby.com/ec3-devi...-awg-eflaec309

The series harness used: http://www.horizonhobby.com/ec3-batt...-awg-eflaec308

You can also buy plain 'plug-ends' if you want to make your own: http://www.horizonhobby.com/ec3-devi...ctor-eflaec303

And for reference the batteries: http://www.horizonhobby.com/EFLB22003S30

I use two 3S LiPo batteries in a series to get ~22v. I prefer 3S (3 cell) batteries over 6S because of the lower cost, redundancy of having two batteries and finding 3S chargers are usually easier. The '30C' rating is in correlation to the maximum instantaneous discharge rate. I prefer 30C LiPo's, but they're likely overkill. You can purchase '20C' batteries at a cheaper cost, and more than likely will be sufficient.

Attached is a picture of my setup.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1233&stc=1

[pfm1700]

I had no issue with firewire, and I wired up to 4 in parallel on each queue on my cobra mod, and all seemed to work fine.

[displayfireworks1]

OK, my friend Joe dropped of some of the Fire Wire igniters. These are the same ones they used on their most recent display. It looks like there are twenty left in the box he gave me. I'll try to find time in the next few days to test them. I think a fair test will be to connect them all on the Cobra and just press the buttons starting with number one and go from there. Perhaps double up on one of them. I will also look at the exposed wire and what condition it is in.
From hearing the reports of other people my guess is Joe and his crew experience some sort of human error and/or when that one product went CATO and threw the Cobra Module that contributed. I went through the effort to get the original match and will video it as it occurs. We shall see how it responds. I think 20 is a good number to test.
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Here they are for now.
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http://pyrotalk.com/wp-photos/wp-content/gallery/united-states-pennsylvania/s1100027-70c8397c29f8128338542a06b0e6697635be1330.jpg
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http://pyrotalk.com/wp-photos/wp-content/gallery/united-states-pennsylvania/s1100028-84fefc2f11d1277ce6c35883d7bb668a6aec2330.jpg
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http://pyrotalk.com/wp-photos/wp-content/gallery/united-states-pennsylvania/s1100029-0c7ce22ca0aa9240645173af24d89758deb02117.jpg

[pistolus]

That place is within a few miles of me, in Southern New Jersey but I've never used them before.. I may have to try them out... being in New Jersey I don't shoot consumer fireworks in this state often... I have friends and family in Pennsylvania where we can get permits, and they've been wanting to try something like this.

[Pyropug]

Should be interesting what you find. Can you try both modes talon and ematch? And maybe a few on a cue?

[displayfireworks1]

That does not make sense to mix like that. i am only testing it exactly as it would be used. One at a time and occasionally two together.

[Westpapyro]

Dave I have some of the bad batch if for some reason you want to compare?
Mjg sent me me a new batch that work fine. No questions!
Chuck

[displayfireworks1]

I have some of the FireWire myself. For this test to have any accuracy it has to be the exact matches they purchased rather than a random sampling. I believe they purchased these particular matches from Nite Lites along with their order of fireworks. Some of my advertisers are selling this product. Since I received conflicting reports from this display, from two different people on the performance of the product, plus they had a CATO in the mix, me testing the remaining match will help separate the truth. If all 20 fire , then it was human error.
Most electrical display I ever worked on always had some degree of error, particularly when multiple people are wiring things and walking all around the shoot site and the wires. I should get this video up soon.

[pfm1700]

Try testing up to 4 on a single queue. I did that with most if not all 18q's on my cobra mod and all went. Scott from Cobra confirmed you can go up to 4 in parallel.

[displayfireworks1]

Here it is using 20 from the orginal supply of match from Nite Lites
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unlisted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy1f943al40

[Pyropug]

Where they inserted into the cake/tube? Or visco fuse connectors?

[tongpopyro]

green visco from the firework can be hard to catch fire. i use the ematch to visco connectors but put grey paperfuse in the connector not the fuse from the cake, that way fire passes more easily from the match, the grey paperfuse i then tape to what ever product fuse I am trying to light. not sure if that is the correct way to do it, but that is how i do it, I made a youtube video of how i do it

[PYRODAN]

I used 100 of them this year. 6 did not fire. Examining them the next day I discovered it was my fault the 6 did not fire. So overall I am pretty happy with them. Just wish I could fire more than 4 in series.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

green visco from the firework can be hard to catch fire. i use the ematch to visco connectors but put grey paperfuse in the connector not the fuse from the cake, that way fire passes more easily from the match, the grey paperfuse i then tape to what ever product fuse I am trying to light. not sure if that is the correct way to do it, but that is how i do it, I made a youtube video of how i do it

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the whole point of using e-match is to avoid having to rely on the visco coming out of the cake. In fact for the show we just did, I cut the visco off the cakes before I jammed the ematch in the cakes where the visco once was. This process (squibbing) caused the cakes to fire immediately after the fire button was hit. Again, this was my first experience doing this, so I don't profess to be an expert! But this is my understanding.

[PYRODAN]

You can do that. I just left the fuse in and taped over so I could hand light if needed..... witch I did need to do.

[PYRODAN]

Let me be more specific, I enlarged the fuse hole on top of the fuse with a brass poke. Inserted the match above the fuse and taped over both so I could still hand light. I put them in with the shroud on, except the 4 "z" cakes. those I pulled the shroud back and just inserted the head, due to the small tube size.

[djsmurf]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the whole point of using e-match is to avoid having to rely on the visco coming out of the cake. In fact for the show we just did, I cut the visco off the cakes before I jammed the ematch in the cakes where the visco once was. This process (squibbing) caused the cakes to fire immediately after the fire button was hit. Again, this was my first experience doing this, so I don't profess to be an expert! But this is my understanding.

You can do it that way, use a pyro poke to make the hole a bit bigger and put the match in, instant fire that way. Again I used the FireWire this year and as others have reported no issues.

[tongpopyro]

I know most people just stick the match in the lift. I do it the way I do it so i don't have to shove the match in the lift, which may or may not make the process just a tad safer. The quickfuse I use is right at the opening where the visco goes into the lift. The delay is very minimal to the point where I am satisfied. I put these ports on all my product at home. When out on the field it's pretty quick to just stick the match in the port, I think it's just as quick if not quicker than poking a hole and sticking the match in the lift. I know I'm probably doing this whole thing wrong, but it works for me.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Let me be more specific, I enlarged the fuse hole on top of the fuse with a brass poke. Inserted the match above the fuse and taped over both so I could still hand light. I put them in with the shroud on, except the 4 "z" cakes. those I pulled the shroud back and just inserted the head, due to the small tube size.

That sounds like exactly the way we did it. Except for leaving the fuse on part. Some guys tucked the fuse back into the hole we punched with the brass poke, most just cut it off. On the large fan cakes with the 1/2" tubes we pulled back the shroud and just inserted the head and taped it up.

Everything seemed to light just fine. So we must have done something right. :o

[PYRODAN]

pfm1700, Did you receive the email from Cobra? I received one that said 4 in series, 2 in parallel. Where I had put 4 in parallel they did not fire. In series they worked fine. My fault for not testing first though.

[PYRODAN]

For the Fire wire initiator. Actual e match is different.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

For the Fire wire initiator. Actual e match is different.

How so? Different gauge wire? The caveat on the Cobra Tech Specs page says: * assumes 22 gauge shooting wire.

Is the Firewire Initiator not 22 gauge?

[PYRODAN]

Those figures are for the regular e match. The resistance of the Fire Wire is higher so you have to use less of them in series or parallel. ( I found out the hard way) I used 4 of them in series on one cue with no issues. And the e mail I received from Cobra said as much. You can do 2 in parallel. (with the cobra system anyway, I can not speak to other systems.) If I could get regular e match I would use them as their resistance is lower and you can fire up to 10 in series. As I am a Pyro peasant, I will keep using the Fire Wire. They work, and the only failures I had were my fault.

[PYRODAN]

I believe the actual difference is the bridge wire resistance. It is my understanding that the Fire Wire uses Thermite as the initiating compound. Thermite is not an "explosive" so they are not regulated as such. However, it takes a little more "umph" to get it burning. Hence the higher resistance of the bridge wire. If I am incorrect on any of this, anyone feel free to correct me. That's the only way we learn.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Those figures are for the regular e match. The resistance of the Fire Wire is higher so you have to use less of them in series or parallel. ( I found out the hard way) I used 4 of them in series on one cue with no issues. And the e mail I received from Cobra said as much. You can do 2 in parallel. (with the cobra system anyway, I can not speak to other systems.) If I could get regular e match I would use them as their resistance is lower and you can fire up to 10 in series. As I am a Pyro peasant, I will keep using the Fire Wire. They work, and the only failures I had were my fault.

I'm no electrical engineer but I guess I'm still not understanding. Maybe this is one for Dave, but in my pea brain, 22 gauge wire is 22 gauge wire. Assuming both use 22 gauge wire and the wire is all copper and not some amalgam of various metals thrown together in the Fire Wire brand, the resistance should be exactly the same with both the Fire Wire initiators and the "real" ematch. What am I missing??

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I believe the actual difference is the bridge wire resistance. It is my understanding that the Fire Wire uses Thermite as the initiating compound. Thermite is not an "explosive" so they are not regulated as such. However, it takes a little more "umph" to get it burning. Hence the higher resistance of the bridge wire. If I am incorrect on any of this, anyone feel free to correct me. That's the only way we learn.

Okay... I guess I should have read all the posts before I responded to the one below.... But this one actually makes sense. It would be nice if someone could confirm/deny this theory, but it sounds reasonable to me. It also explains why you can shoot more in series.