couple questions about permits.

[jbags091992]

is there any place where you can shoot without a permit? like am i allowed to go to a buddys property and shoot of a little 1.3? couple cakes a like a thunderking? also, is the atf worried about permits? or does that fall on the city or municipality? like when they come to renew me or inspect me will they ask for permits? or just receipts and contingency? thanks, future 54 holder.

[jbags091992]

Like I seriously only on planning and using my license to buy 1.3 once a year and it would be a light purchase. 100-500 bucks worth of pyro, I just don't want the atf kicking in my door or revoking my license because I disn't have a permit that one time that year I bought 200 bucks of 1.3

[displayfireworks1]

The question is are you ATF licensed? I can't tell from your post. Are you contemplating getting the license?

[jbags091992]

Ya I just got your dvd in the mail today, I'm gonna shoot for it, I watched the dvds and they were pretty informative but a couple of questions were still lingering. Thanks dave !

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Short answer is if you do not have proper paperwork from ATF you can NOT purchase 1.3g products. Possession is a felony. Can you do it & do people do it---------------treading on thin ice.

[displayfireworks1]

There are people that are trying to stop me from ATF licensing fireworks enthusiast, they are doing that with fear. They state the ATF will come and search your house etc. If they were going to kick in someone's door, don't you thing they would be kicking mine in. The chief concern of the ATF and explosives is if your are storing them improperly or selling them to unauthorized individuals. You lighting some thunderkings on your friends property is not really one of their issues. Some of these concerns are resonbable, you wanting to shoot a few thunder kings on your friends property is actually a good enough reason to get the ATF license.
Check your PM's

[djsmurf]

Your from Ohio there is not any place where you can shoot without a permit, that is true for both 1.4 and 1.3 product.

[displayfireworks1]

The so called permit laws of any state can not stop anyone from getting an Federal ATF 1.3 Fireworks license. they initially tried that by bluffing a few applicants out of the Cincinnati ATF office with that one, now as far as I heard they have abandoned that idea. Back in Cincinnati again they tried to convince the applicants to withdraw the application for lack of a state exhibitors license. As far as I can tell they stopped that also. Currently I have received nothing but positive comments from Type 54 applicants in the state of Ohio. This dude is closer to the top part of Ohio, they will send ATF Inspectors out of Columbus Ohio for him.

[jbags091992]

Short answer is if you do not have proper paperwork from ATF you can NOT purchase 1.3g products. Possession is a felony. Can you do it & do people do it---------------treading on thin ice.

who said i was going to purchase without a 54 permit or be in illegal possession of them?

[djsmurf]

I never said the permit laws would stop him from getting his 54. (I'm from Ohio, have my 54 and am only an Ohio assistant, however am shooting a 1.3 shot is PA on the 2nd.) I answered his question, which was can I shoot without a permit. In the state of Ohio the answer is no.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

who said i was going to purchase without a 54 permit or be in illegal possession of them?

You said "like am i allowed to go to a buddys property and shoot of a little 1.3? couple cakes a like a thunderking?"
My comment was not directed at whether you could shoot them without a permit but the fact that it is a Felony for you to be in possession of them. If they are your "buddies" and he is not licensed, then he is guilty of a Felony.
Like Dave & others have clearly pointed out the ATF could care less about whether or not you have a permit. That is not what they are looking at. The permit issue falls on your local law enforcement agencies. And without a 54 or similar permit or an Employee Possessor form from a legit company, it is illegal for you to possess or handle 1.3g product.
People will do what the want to do--but if something goes down you can't say "nobody ever told me that!".
You said you were going to apply for your "54". Having that will greatly aid in getting a local permit [even if it was only a 1.4g show]. Also, I would suggest you look into taking the PGI Certification Course when it becomes available in your area. It establishes you a someone who wants to do things properly & gives you another level of credibility when applying for a permit. Good luck! The "54" application process is not a horror story like some people would have you believe.

[Npntransistor]

The ohio thing again..... (grabs a beer and a chair), let the debate begin.:rolleyes:

[Dmkaz]

Like Dave & others have clearly pointed out the ATF could care less about whether or not you have a permit. That is not what they are looking at.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. When I had the interview for my license last year, the agent mentioned they have ways to see if I had a permit for the given day I had a shoot and I should also keep the permit on file with each show. Indiana is a state where you *must* have a permit if any 1.3G product is used. I'm not saying the ATF is going to go through each show and question you, but I also believe it's not correct to notion that the ATF 'doesn't care' if you have one.

[displayfireworks1]

I am sure an ATF Inspector wants to feel good about giving a person explosive privileges. The more positive things you can tell them the better. You can show them permits or letters of congratulations and thank you etc. It can't hurt. Imagine being in their position, you are giving explosive privileges to a person you know little about. I am sure one of their nightmares is a licensed individual will do something destructive and guess who the first person they are going to want to talk to? The Inspector that interviewed the person. I am sure when they interview you they are going to want to get a feel for your intentions.
The lack of permits should not stop any fireworks enthuist from obtaining an ATF 1.3 license. Once you obtain the license, whatever happens past that pointy with permits or not, you are at least a properly licensed individual in legal possession of the product. If your intentions are to use your explosive privileges improperly, the ATF will eventually figure it out. I don't believe lack of a few permits falls into that category. I know people that lose their ATF 1.3 license and it is not for lack of permits or state certifications.

[jbags091992]

I am sure an ATF Inspector wants to feel good about giving a person explosive privileges. The more positive things you can tell them the better. You can show them permits or letters of congratulations and thank you etc. It can't hurt. Imagine being in their position, you are giving explosive privileges to a person you know little about. I am sure one of their nightmares is a licensed individual will do something destructive and guess who the first person they are going to want to talk to? The Inspector that interviewed the person. I am sure when they interview you they are going to want to get a feel for your intentions.
The lack of permits should not stop any fireworks enthuist from obtaining an ATF 1.3 license. Once you obtain the license, whatever happens past that pointy with permits or not, you are at least a properly licensed individual in legal possession of the product. If your intentions are to use your explosive privileges improperly, the ATF will eventually figure it out. I don't believe lack of a few permits falls into that category. I know people that lose their ATF 1.3 license and it is not for lack of permits or state certifications.

thanks for being so positive dave!

[djsmurf]

thanks for being so positive dave!

I agree the last post by dave was very well said. jbags have you thought about joining me and the gang in NEOPG we can help you with everything your asking about, and while we help you, you get to shoot legal 1.4 and 1.3 in our state. Come to a show if you question joining, you will not be disappointed.

[jh35ky123]

I have had my 1.3 license for 4 years and still confused on the whole permit thing. There is no exact answers I can find anywhere (state specific). My understanding is the insurance is the killer, I know some say homeowners coverage is sometimes obtained, can get show insurance from supplier but haven't checked into that cost. Is it a public or private show, I don't know, its a backyard show for family and friends. Does a 1.4 show require a permit? Maybe i'm just a dumb ky boy that don't get it, but anybody who knows the process in ky please feel free to chime in or private message if that's preferred.

[Npntransistor]

1.4 in ohio = legal to buy but must leave state within 48 hours unless used at a permitted show.
1.3 can't buy in ohio unless you are a licensed exhibitor (from my understanding), can't transport into ohio unless supplied by an ohio licensed shipper.
Commercial / non commercial use is irrelevant in regards to legally igniting. In ohio you must be a licensed exhibitor (among other things) to light fireworks.

someone in ohio with a type 54 lighting 1.3 in ohio without meeting the requirements is worse off then someone setting off 1.4 with nothing but a smile.

[Npntransistor]

I would like to clarify I am in no way trying to deter someone from getting a type 54 in ohio, but just make sure you fully understand what a type 54 is and how it is relevant in ohio.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I would like to clarify I am in no way trying to deter someone from getting a type 54 in ohio, but just make sure you fully understand what a type 54 is and how it is relevant in ohio.

To cut to the quick... I think what everyone is trying to say is the 54 gives you permission to buy and/or possess 1.3G. The permit give you permission to use 1.3G. The two ARE mutually exclusive. Just because the Feds let you buy them, doesn't mean the locals will let you use them.